Helpless Better Mean HELPLESS

[sephiroth1084]

So, in other words, it took longer and was boring. Gotcha.

Actually, it took longer and was exciting/fun. I've run the quest more times sans-w/p than with. Ditto for kobold (w/e).

[deathtouch]

Don't forget W/P will not just disable the mob, but the con loss will DRASTICALLY reduce those 5000 hit points... still extremely viable. I see im not the only one to point this out...so ill just say...

I need Holyburst of puncturing items now.

I thought you did not believe in stat damage items

[eonfreon]

Lets do an experiment (not me, since I'm going to bed).

Go to a PvP pit, take off all your false life items, and have your con reduced to 1. Look at the total hp you have and compare it to the total hp that you used to have. What's the percentage of the original?

Just to be clear, I'm sure others have already mentioned this, but:

PVPing will not help in this PVE issue, because Mob hp are NOT the same as Player hp.
The formula is the same in that it is (Level/HD * Con Bonus) + Heroic Durability/Monster Durability.
The KEY difference is that Heroic Durability = 20.
Monster Durability = whatever the Devs deem appropriate, ramped up by Level and Difficulty

So to answer your question:
if my Con = 1 on a D10 Character
Base hp = 10 * 16 = 160 + Con Bonus(6*16) = 256 + Heroic Durability (20) + Draconic Vitalty (10) = 286
-5 to Con * 16 = -80
Loss of Con Bonus = -90
-170
286 - 170 = 136
So a litle over 50 % damage.

Hypothetical Very Conservative 30 HD Frost Giant:
30 HD * 10 = 300 + (Let's say a 50 Con Bonus of 20*30 ) = 900 + Monster Vitalty (2000) = 2900
-5 to Con * 30 = -150
Loss of Con Bonus = -600
-750
2900 - 750 = 2150
So less than 30 % of damage.
THe Giants we talk about have in excess of 5000 hit points and the Con damage is more equivalent to 1000 hit points of damage.
So the Con damage can be said to be about 20% give or take.
Also I'm not taking into account damage done if DR is broken, burst effects, etc.

I just want to get the point across that Monster hp are NOT equivalent to Player hp.
Keep in mind these were a very conservative figures just to get the idea.

[Aesop]

Don't forget W/P will not just disable the mob, but the con loss will DRASTICALLY reduce those 5000 hit points... still extremely viable. I see im not the only one to point this out...so ill just say...

I need Holyburst of puncturing items now.

Actually I don't think it will be as dramatic as you may think.


30 Con = +10 hp per Hit Die

0 Con = -5 hp per Hit Die

so -15 hp per Hit Die.

even if the critter has 50 Hit Dice that's only 750 hp. The hp problem is from the Uber Monster HP Bonus. Or think of it as Monster Toughness each time it is taken a Monster gets 25hp per HD... and some monsters have it multiple times


Frost Giant
4350 hp total
30 HD x 10 hp = 300 hp
Con 30 = 300 hp
Monster Toughness 750
Monster Toughness 750
Monster Toughness 750
Monster Toughness 750
Monster Toughness 750


drop con to 0 and you have 3900 hp

so the drop is not that huge really... unless the Mobs have 100 Con... which they don't