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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintro View Post
    I'm assuming that means enemies too. So if we stat damage something to 0 and move on it may regen and not be auto-crit by the time the DPS gets to it. It also means we'll have to be constantly "topping up" the -10 to stats on red names and losing a significant amount of DPS.



    Since they can stun them for a "short period of time" they should be able to stun them indefinitely or reuse the "helpless" state of the trolls in Atraxia's when you fight them with the wrong weapons to emulate the helpless state. Of course then they'd regen 1 point of str and hit me just as hard as they did in the first place.

    EDIT: Dare I say 0 stat = Feared?
    if you need more than 1 min to kill a non boss mob most of the time, something is inherently wrong, not with the mechanics but with the players/party
    If you want to know why...

  2. #22
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    The frost giants in prey are a bad example of needing con dmg. I run the quest all the time solo on a sorc, dbf makes short work of them. In fact I'd say its by a good margin the easiest quest to run in reaver's if you just have a fire spec sorc.

    The only thing I see being more difficult would be the fire wing of sorjek, unless I'm mistaken those mobs don't have a very ridiculous amount of hp though.

  3. #23
    Community Member esoitl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintro View Post
    I'm assuming that means enemies too. So if we stat damage something to 0 and move on it may regen and not be auto-crit by the time the DPS gets to it. It also means we'll have to be constantly "topping up" the -10 to stats on red names and losing a significant amount of DPS.
    Seriously, will it really take a whole minute to take down a monster?
    Even if they don't die, their HP is still being reduced and at 0 CON they are taking quite a penalty to HP. With all the Greensteel out there it shouldn't take long. Even if it does take a minute one hit brings it back to 0 and auto crit......

    Sob on but come on... are you serious? This is such a lame complaint.

    The red named argument isn't very strong either..... again, one hit per mintue is all it takes if they happen to regen. How long do most red nameds last... 2-3 minutes?? wow... maybe 2 extra hits to 'top of their -10's'

  4. #24
    Community Member Samadhi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganidel View Post

    And Trans realy wont hurt that much, your only losing 2 types(Three types: Pierce Slash and Bludgeon).
    You only realy need bludgeon for skelies, and slash for wraiths and ghost types, I forget what you need for construct.


    .
    You are also losing alignment weapon types, making a transmuting of greater construct (vs marut) or transmuting of grtr evil outsider (you get the picture) equally useless
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  5. #25
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esoitl View Post
    Seriously, will it really take a whole minute to take down a monster?
    Even if they don't die, their HP is still being reduced and at 0 CON they are taking quite a penalty to HP. With all the Greensteel out there it shouldn't take long. Even if it does take a minute one hit brings it back to 0 and auto crit......

    Sob on but come on... are you serious? This is such a lame complaint.

    The red named argument isn't very strong either..... again, one hit per mintue is all it takes if they happen to regen. How long do most red nameds last... 2-3 minutes?? wow... maybe 2 extra hits to 'top of their -10's'
    For the most part I agree.
    But just to be clear:
    Being reduced to 0 Con does NOT equate to "quite a penalty to HP".
    A 5000 hit point Mob will more likely go down by 1000 or so Hit Points when reduced to 0 Con.
    However, he will be auto-critted so I think it'll work out fine.
    Personally, I hope they lower Mobs Hit Points to compensate. And from what I've heard so far that may be in the works.
    At the very least I'm sure Mod 9 Quests take into account the WoP nerf. The rest we'll deal with.

  6. #26
    Community Member Andoir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esoitl View Post
    Seriously, will it really take a whole minute to take down a monster?
    Even if they don't die, their HP is still being reduced and at 0 CON they are taking quite a penalty to HP. With all the Greensteel out there it shouldn't take long. Even if it does take a minute one hit brings it back to 0 and auto crit......

    Sob on but come on... are you serious? This is such a lame complaint.

    The red named argument isn't very strong either..... again, one hit per mintue is all it takes if they happen to regen. How long do most red nameds last... 2-3 minutes?? wow... maybe 2 extra hits to 'top of their -10's'
    Also, any self-respecting rogue will be keeping Red-Named mobs STR at -10 while doing normal DPS.
    Watts

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    For the most part I agree.
    But just to be clear:
    Being reduced to 0 Con does NOT equate to "quite a penalty to HP".
    A 5000 hit point Mob will more likely go down by 1000 or so Hit Points when reduced to 0 Con.
    However, he will be auto-critted so I think it'll work out fine.
    Personally, I hope they lower Mobs Hit Points to compensate. And from what I've heard so far that may be in the works.
    At the very least I'm sure Mod 9 Quests take into account the WoP nerf. The rest we'll deal with.
    Lets do an experiment (not me, since I'm going to bed).

    Go to a PvP pit, take off all your false life items, and have your con reduced to 1. Look at the total hp you have and compare it to the total hp that you used to have. What's the percentage of the original?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorie View Post
    Pwesiela is correct.

  8. #28
    Community Member bobbryan2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pwesiela View Post
    Lets do an experiment (not me, since I'm going to bed).

    Go to a PvP pit, take off all your false life items, and have your con reduced to 1. Look at the total hp you have and compare it to the total hp that you used to have. What's the percentage of the original?
    And just make the insane assumption that monsters work like players?

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbryan2 View Post
    And just make the insane assumption that monsters work like players?
    That too, can be tested.

    And I think that the % will be pretty close to similar. Naive? Perhaps. But I live in a fantasy world in my time off anyway, so it's not that far off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorie View Post
    Pwesiela is correct.

  10. #30
    Community Member bobbryan2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pwesiela View Post
    That too, can be tested.

    And I think that the % will be pretty close to similar. Naive? Perhaps. But I live in a fantasy world in my time off anyway, so it's not that far off.
    Well.. first we'd have to find some 5,000 hp barbs to test that theory...

    In some of the worst case scenarios, I'd expect moving con to 0 would only take about 20% of total hp. But that's just a guess. 1000 hp off a 5000 hp giant...

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pwesiela View Post
    Lets do an experiment (not me, since I'm going to bed).
    We have Heroic Durability. Monster have Nasty Bad Guy Durability LXXX.
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  12. #32
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samadhi View Post
    If they dont change the HP in quests like Prey, I don't even know how to describe how little that quest will ever get run.

    ive soloed it without killing anything

    the only mobs that ever have die are the cleric before the shrine, 2 clerics to spawn kiljarne, and mobs alive after he dies


    all the other walls will break after time/combat around them without fighting

    it wont appreciably make the quest slower or harder .. just web/fts everything and ignore it for 20 sec and you get the same benefit as having killed it.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspenor View Post
    When any stat goes to zero, a monster (and PC) should be helpless. Helpless means:

    Unable to move, attack, or take any actions. Helpless characters are automatically critically hit.

    Anything less than this is poor design.

    PS - while you're at it, take off the ridiculously high amounts of HP arbitrarily added on to monsters. Giants with 5000+ hit points are poor and lazy design meant to give the illusion of a challenge.
    /signed

    then again we've said this how many times?

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  14. #34
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspenor View Post
    Instead, they use regular puncturing weapons.
    I've gotten through there several times where NO ONE used a stat-damaging weapon. Sure, it takes a bit longer (run away from more enemies), but it's not impossible or incredibly strenuous.
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    I've gotten through there several times where NO ONE used a stat-damaging weapon. Sure, it takes a bit longer (run away from more enemies), but it's not impossible or incredibly strenuous.
    So, in other words, it took longer and was boring. Gotcha.

  16. #36
    Community Member captain1z's Avatar
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    one of the complaints I have with my monks gear is that when I drain an enemies dex to 0, they can still beat the stuffing out of me (and have on occasion)

    whereas if my charisma goes to 0 I cant so much as drink a pot.


    (well that doesnt really apply so much to my gear as much as me saying I really cant wait for them to fix weakening on handwraps so I can use those instead)
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  17. #37
    Community Member Kintro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esoitl View Post
    Seriously, will it really take a whole minute to take down a monster?
    Even if they don't die, their HP is still being reduced and at 0 CON they are taking quite a penalty to HP. With all the Greensteel out there it shouldn't take long. Even if it does take a minute one hit brings it back to 0 and auto crit......

    Sob on but come on... are you serious? This is such a lame complaint.

    The red named argument isn't very strong either..... again, one hit per mintue is all it takes if they happen to regen. How long do most red nameds last... 2-3 minutes?? wow... maybe 2 extra hits to 'top of their -10's'
    Obviously it's not going to take a minute with auto-crits if it's actually being attacked that whole time. It wasn't meant as a complaint, more as a comment that you can't run ahead with your wops leaving a wake of "helpless" monsters for the rest of the party to DPS as they'll regen if you get too far ahead.

    I'm not complaining about the wop nerf here, my barb can now carry a good bursting heavy pick with +2 str on it instead of a flimsy wop so I'm all for it.
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  18. #38
    Community Member Lorien_the_First_One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspenor View Post
    When any stat goes to zero, a monster (and PC) should be helpless. Helpless means:

    Unable to move, attack, or take any actions. Helpless characters are automatically critically hit.

    Anything less than this is poor design.

    PS - while you're at it, take off the ridiculously high amounts of HP arbitrarily added on to monsters. Giants with 5000+ hit points are poor and lazy design meant to give the illusion of a challenge.
    As players when we are helpless due to stat drain we can still move around, I expect monsters will be treated the same (not that I disagree, we should be held in place too)

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspenor View Post
    So, in other words, it took longer and was boring. Gotcha.
    and WOP isn't boring either, the quest is only as boring as you make it, honestly nothing is more boring than doing a quest with a group full of wop weapons, sure its fast but its boring as hell, because the challenge is gone
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  20. #40
    Community Member The_Phenx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samadhi View Post
    If they dont change the HP in quests like Prey, I don't even know how to describe how little that quest will ever get run.
    Don't forget W/P will not just disable the mob, but the con loss will DRASTICALLY reduce those 5000 hit points... still extremely viable. I see im not the only one to point this out...so ill just say...

    I need Holyburst of puncturing items now.
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