Was Ghallanda affected by release notes?

[Jondallar]

P.S.
The comments that only crappy players used WOPs is silly. How do those that have many get them? From never putting in the time? Not having the goods to trade for them? Those that had one or so got lucky, those that had many were power gamers that looted, traded, etc. To amass several was simply using whatever means there is to make any quest simpler and the fact that stat damagers are nerfed won't change that. Do you really think that because I have a lot of WOPs I am unable to adapt? Please, the fact that I have a lot means that is exactly what I have done. Adpated to the best way to make quest easy.

I think general when people denigrate wop users it is not the guy who using them for efficiency, its they guy who has a useless build/cant adapt that they are talking about.

WoP + bought plat/being carried through 80+ shrouds = small skill with super well equipped characters where as before WoP became (widely known as) powerful only the most skilled players with the most time had geared out toons. With the Shroud and no real content the gap in gear vs required skill to attain said gear disappeared. Any idiot could save enough plat to buy a WoP if they wanted it enough. I hope the gap will grow to it proper grand canyon-esque stature.

No big deal, slight change in tactics.... It's all t he same.... The people crying will cry unless they get giant ice cream cones.... And the people who get their jollies by making fun of others *****ing, or what have you will get the attention they so desperately have been seeking since they got stuffed in that locker oh so many years ago The changes will lead to more builds being viable.... The game will again be a bit tougher.... Roll with it..... Wow, DPS might actually be useful again....... Now TWF ranger/monk things will only be 2 times as powerful as other melee classes instead of 20 times as powerful.....

Hello Smatt, I have been frequenting Ghallanda more, I thought I should take this time to offer you a guided tour of my locker, all it will cost you is your lunch money, and the time it takes to do my homework.

[Samadhi]

As a couple people mentioned - what is there left to hope for out of random chests? Where is the fun of random loot runs?

[smatt]

I think general when people denigrate wop users it is not the guy who using them for efficiency, its they guy who has a useless build/cant adapt that they are talking about.

WoP + bought plat/being carried through 80+ shrouds = small skill with super well equipped characters where as before WoP became (widely known as) powerful only the most skilled players with the most time had geared out toons. With the Shroud and no real content the gap in gear vs required skill to attain said gear disappeared. Any idiot could save enough plat to buy a WoP if they wanted it enough. I hope the gap will grow to it proper grand canyon-esque stature.

Indeed, let the so and so's start their ego-maniacal ramblings....

Hello Smatt, I have been frequenting Ghallanda more, I thought I should take this time to offer you a guided tour of my locker, all it will cost you is your lunch money, and the time it takes to do my homework.

Sorry you and the special K's don't need my company in their...... It looks a bit to cozy and wierd for my tastes. I'm sure if you run around, flail your arms, and scream loud enough somebody will notice you all though

[wamjratl1]

As a couple people mentioned - what is there left to hope for out of random chests? Where is the fun of random loot runs?

New named loot? **** I dunno, you're right. I didn't realize it until you said it but the only reason I've even looked in a chest for the past 6 months is to see if there's a WoP in it. (And to expand my collection of +5 thieves tools) ****. Guess I'll still be excited if I loot one but...

Better be some **** good named loot in this new mod. The tidbit about augmenting new named raid loot is pretty cool I guess...

[Anthios888]

It's funny you say that, Samadhi, I was thinking the opposite. These changes make many more so-so weapons a LOT better. Any greater bane that can replicate or exceed a shroud item is now valuable... maybe before they were decent enough stuff for the AH, but I know I will be trading hard for the new cream of the crop weapons. Transmuting/pure good, holy/silver/pure good, holy/cold iron/pure good, blunt/greater undead bane, frost/greater elemental bane, flaming burst/greater giant bane, weakening/enfeebling and maladroit/bonebreaking, bursting rapiers of puncturing ... just to name a few. On top of the reported several dozen new named / raid loot items, I think we will have a lot of reason to open chests

[wamjratl1]

It's funny you say that, Samadhi, I was thinking the opposite. These changes make many more so-so weapons a LOT better. Any greater bane that can replicate or exceed a shroud item is now valuable... maybe before they were decent enough stuff for the AH, but I know I will be trading hard for the new cream of the crop weapons. Transmuting/pure good, holy/silver/pure good, holy/cold iron/pure good, blunt/greater undead bane, frost/greater elemental bane, flaming burst/greater giant bane, weakening/enfeebling and maladroit/bonebreaking, bursting rapiers of puncturing ... just to name a few. On top of the reported several dozen new named / raid loot items, I think we will have a lot of reason to open chests

Named Thieves Tools. That's what I want.

[kingfisher]

i like it. no way one weapon should work for all the baddies out there. i have always carried transmuters but only as a last resort cause i like carrying around 2 backpacks worth of weps, and using them. to me, having the right tool for the job is what makes the game fun.

before, a holy of grtr bane was just ok, which is ****ing crazy! its 5d6 bonus dam every hit, and it should be amoung the top weapons in the game not junk. now, they are pretty **** fine weapons to have and for indiviual situations a random weapon CAN be the best weapon, as opposed to an alternative to minII

before, a set of wops was about as good a weapon as you could have. it always felt like cheating, a little dirty, like sleeping with your ex's sister, and it turns out the people who made this game thought so too. now, they are extremely useful, but they are not stand alone weapon anymore. you are gonna need DPS in all parties or dropping the mobs will take too long. as it ****ing should be!!


this game is going to change, and for the better, imo. its supposed to be a party game, and now it will be more so. tatics will apply more too. better take out those enemy casters before they restore all that stat damage you have been working on. ac/melees go in first and start immobilizing targets and the dps/melee follow them finishing the job. etc etc. teamwork is the new uber!!!

[Gratch]

I'm sort of sad about the xmuting change... though I believe mineral 2's will still work just fine on the purple names we dislike since they have good + silver/mithril/cold-iron in them... just less so against Abbot (unless you're a blunter).

Otoh, it's cool that my blunt spec fighter has slightly more specialization for some mobs... though now I'll have to carry some more pointy/slashing weps for the other ones.

Hmmm... no one on in this thread complained about the charm changes... probably cause on Ghallanda charm is for the solo'ers and more of an irritant to groups.

[Gunga]

I'm too awesome to be affected by some little weapon change.

My secret weapon is Rhynn, who is not being nerfed in Mod 9.

[Gunga]

Smhatt, Smhacoatt.

[Junts]

Some parts are disappointing (especially pos+pos change), some expected (wop), not that big a deal.

Honestly, it was pretty far past excessive when a s/b pally specced for piercing could kill any mob in the game in less than 2 seconds without taking damage; dual wops? All you ever needed was one.

Just a little silly, that, even though I'll miss the massively disproportionate killing power on my tank-purposed character. No matter how you slice it, it was/is completely ******** that that character can kill any subterrane/sub raid/mod8 giant about 12 times faster than a pure dps build with its best dps weapons (who'd also take a ton of damage).

Incidentally, all hail the vorpal, our new(again) main trashmob weapons.

[Nevthial]

As a couple people mentioned - what is there left to hope for out of random chests? Where is the fun of random loot runs?

Meh, there are still RR items out there. That's nearly all I look for and keep these days. ( And the odd tome drop of course)

[Bashear]

Everyone knows that I HAD a fortune in WOPs. While the nerf to stat damagers is painful, it doesn't bother me so much. What does bother me is the lack of valuable loot. At what point do we never loot basic chests becasue there is no point in looting them. What is rare that would actually make someone excited.

Some new named items are coming and those chests will remain hot and exciting, but 90% of the chests that don't have named loot are now pointless. WOPs and WOEs were one of the cool things you could still loot. Now what do you look forward to getting that can drop from any chest?

P.S.
The comments that only crappy players used WOPs is silly. How do those that have many get them? From never putting in the time? Not having the goods to trade for them? Those that had one or so got lucky, those that had many were power gamers that looted, traded, etc. To amass several was simply using whatever means there is to make any quest simpler and the fact that stat damagers are nerfed won't change that. Do you really think that because I have a lot of WOPs I am unable to adapt? Please, the fact that I have a lot means that is exactly what I have done. Adpated to the best way to make quest easy.

P.S.S
WOPs for trade!!!

I see what you are saying Oogly about the regular loot, but not sure if I wholeheartedly agree. As you mentioned, you can still get the random uber pull, but one of the things that I see with the transmuting nerf is it now makes it essential that I have particular weapons for different types of mobs. No longer will I be able to rely solely on my Min2 greataxe, but might actually equip something specific to the mob Im attacking (alright, maybe not me because Im too lazy to switch, but some people might). However, my point is that some of these other weapons - the ones we've all come to vender trash - might actually now have value AND might increase sales on the AH, which has slowly declined overall anyway.

[Mike_Fun_Spot]

SO WoPs won't grant a kill once con reaches Zero.... oh well.

Anyone who thinks a WoP Rapier is no longer of value is seriously deluding themsleves.

Reducing Con to Zero will not only relegate the mob to Autocrit, but is going to chop off a whole lot of HP in the end due to loss of the con bonus. Would you rather chop done a 1000 HP Orthon or a 400 HP Orthon? Similarly, their Fort Save goes into the toilet making them easier for casters to deal with.

.

Unfortunately the hit points don't really reflect the con scores as they are super inflated, the percentage of actual hit point loss per con point is very low, i don't have the exact numbers, ill let the experts do that.

Will WOPS be worthless? NO. But i see them being only slightly more valuable than WOE. Guess we will have to see on the test server

[Junts]

I see what you are saying Oogly about the regular loot, but not sure if I wholeheartedly agree. As you mentioned, you can still get the random uber pull, but one of the things that I see with the transmuting nerf is it now makes it essential that I have particular weapons for different types of mobs. No longer will I be able to rely solely on my Min2 greataxe, but might actually equip something specific to the mob Im attacking (alright, maybe not me because Im too lazy to switch, but some people might). However, my point is that some of these other weapons - the ones we've all come to vender trash - might actually now have value AND might increase sales on the AH, which has slowly declined overall anyway.

There's only a few kinds of weapons people will need that min2 isn't gonna cover for dps purposes: there were already niche weapons that did it better, and a lot of what got hammered were 'roughly equivalent' weapons like trans/greater banes (holy silver gtr banes, for example, were already better .. holy silver weapons were already a bit worse, but very valuable because of their transferrable nature).

Most min2s are on slashers or piercers: there's a few dr/pierce mobs, but almost none we dps regularly. The real question will be 'how many mobs get death ward?' because if its not a lot, we'll return to the very old, very boring standby of 'everyones vorpalling everything' unless mob hp are significantly reduced.

I remember what shrouds were like when not everyone in my guild packed some kind of con damage weapon, and we still have devout believers that vorpals are better than con damage for shroud/vod/hound (in the face of significant evidence to the contrary). However, they do still, and will continue to, work, and unless mob hp are drastically reduced, they'll still be faster.


I think that's too bad, though, since +4 and +5 vorpals will be frequent in the loot table, and it will probably reduce the difference in what people are wielding a vast majority of the time.

[Junts]

Unfortunately the hit points don't really reflect the con scores as they are super inflated, the percentage of actual hit point loss per con point is very low, i don't have the exact numbers, ill let the experts do that.

Will WOPS be worthless? NO. But i see them being only slightly more valuable than WOE. Guess we will have to see on the test server

for most mobs their con bonus seems to work out to between 20-33% of their total life; you can see this easily by watching Gunga try to dps something he shouldn't, then run up and start con damaging it and watch how quickly its lifebar actually refills for a moment before suddenly dropping to half and then dying to your next blow

the bursting/puncturing for dps via hitting and con damage setup has been viable for high-dps barbs for everything that didn't have 3000+ hp for a while (I know Gunga runs like this sometimes); con damage will also be very potent vs elementals, who tend to have many more hit dice than normal for their cr (so will lose more hp per con point done,as well), there's only a few mobs that will be a real problem, like sos giants, for whom we lack the vorpal or reasonable dps alternatives.

[Return_To_Forever]

I cried all last night about the changes, still crying actually, this thread, making me cry!

Turbine why do you take me down to noogie town?

[kingfisher]

Incidentally, all hail the vorpal, our new(again) main trashmob weapons.

tru dat, but i am not sure it ever left for most players.

[Junts]

tru dat, but i am not sure it ever left for most players.

agreed, more than anything a big evening between extremely wealthy and only moderate/slightly wealthy players has occured.


There's almost nothing I do with my WoPs that I couldn't do with a vorpal (sos and prey are the two biggest exceptions, and the slowness of vorpal to wop over time would make a big impact when off by yourself in hound or the subterrane), but most of these factors are just reducing the incredible self-sufficiency of wop-bearing toons with other abilities - ac builds with wops can, right now, solo tons of things they have no business soloing, and if they are rangers with manyshot, that opens up even further (as they gain the ability to dispose of huge packs of mobs with imp precise+wop or weak/punct bow, and to deal with beholders that way).

It was probably not good for the game for those characters to be so completely independant of a need to be near, pay attention to or care about the locations of their party members, while other classes/builds focused on dps (barbarians, non-ac fighters and pallys, lower ac rogues, etc) are forced to actually play as a team and stay with people who can support and heal them .. while the ac pally/rangermonkthing/rogue are on the other side of the map by themselves killing things and ignoring the presence of everyone else.


Kinda fun for a while, if you are the pally/rangermonk/rogues in question, but probably a lot less fun for everyone else. 'i soloed the puzzle and opened the lever and killed all the mobs by the shrine before the vod group filled' was cool the first time Torthur did it, and I rather enjoyed it the first time I did it, but I kinda get the feeling it's also taking fun away from people, since their job is 'run to the quest, grab a chest on the way'

lazy players like that, people who want to actually do something, less so, people who's toons will never, ever be capable of that kind of thing because they don't mix ac and wop, even less.

My character is a s/b non-evasion ac tank; its not supposed to out-solo so many things. But W/P is a big part of letting it do so.

[Riorik]

It's funny you say that, Samadhi, I was thinking the opposite. These changes make many more so-so weapons a LOT better. Any greater bane that can replicate or exceed a shroud item is now valuable... maybe before they were decent enough stuff for the AH, but I know I will be trading hard for the new cream of the crop weapons. Transmuting/pure good, holy/silver/pure good, holy/cold iron/pure good, blunt/greater undead bane, frost/greater elemental bane, flaming burst/greater giant bane, weakening/enfeebling and maladroit/bonebreaking, bursting rapiers of puncturing ... just to name a few. On top of the reported several dozen new named / raid loot items, I think we will have a lot of reason to open chests

You forgot one. Transmuting Flame-Touched.

After looking thru my inventory, I came upon a +5 Transmuting Flame-Touched Shortsword of Enfeebling. I actually would have thought you couldn't mix the two effects.

What I'm thinking is that we're actually seeing an improvement to the blanket red-named immunities - they're now somewhat vulnerable where they weren't before. I'm kinda expecting players to start encouraging a mix of stat damage across the party/raid.

I am also thinking the beat-down raids are going to get a little harder to complete until players re-acquire the proper equipment or make their Mineral 2's.

I've suspected for awhile that Turbine was likely to work an angle that brought back the Undead to a more central role in end-game content (Wraiths for new Pit Fiend) because of their immunities. Looks like it's happening...and the weapons we would have used before are now less effective.