Transmuting discussion

[Nevthial]

this cannot be good for the casual gamer ....simple economics says when the value of something goes up thoe who are not rich cant afford it . so when a tranny maul of grtr indead bane is selling for 1.5 mil plat only the powergamers ( like me) will have it casual gamers will not even be able to get into parties because they will gimp and slow down the group. and my newbie friend wont be able to keep up because they wont get my handouts when i buy them transmuting grtr bane weps for them to have so they arnt far behind the other players that have been here a long time.

My guildies are going to be affected by it as well. They don't play a 1/8 of the time that I do. I am constantly finding twink gear for them and this change looks like it will limit what they can really use even more. How is this going to affect PUGs who have no-one sending them goodies? Will there be even more players in groups who don't feel they are contributing ? Will it be even harder to run with PUGs in certain quests/raids now more than before? I find I am not liking what I see could be coming down the road.....

[Hobgoblin]

mod 9 = epic fail in all ways shape and form

[vtecfiend99]

My guildies are going to be affected by it as well. They don't play a 1/8 of the time that I do. I am constantly finding twink gear for them and this change looks like it will limit what they can really use even more. How is this going to affect PUGs who have no-one sending them goodies? Will there be even more players in groups who don't feel they are contributing ? Will it be even harder to run with PUGs in certain quests/raids now more than before? I find I am not liking what I see could be coming down the road.....

It's bad all around. Like I said, none of the imaginary "diversity" issues can compare with how this kicks so many folks in the teeth.

[branmakmuffin]

Because a lot of casual gamers care about an alignment that they dig. Chaotic neutral for most of my friends I have convinced to come try the game. It is usually a surprise for them to find out there are weapons that they simply CANT equip if they dont have umd or aren't good.

Coming from PNP to this game is a harsh learning process sometimes given the number of differences

Bah, I usually play NG in D&D. But before I buy into that argument, I'd need numbers regarding character alignments, and I don't mean anecdotes.

[vtecfiend99]

mod 9 = epic fail in all ways shape and form

Nah, there is some good stuff in there.

[vtecfiend99]

Bah, I usually play NG in D&D. But before I buy into that argument, I'd need numbers regarding character alignments, and I don't mean anecdotes.

Well thats impossible and you know it. What is a fact is that most plat-poor casual gamers that don't have UMD won't be able to cut pit fiend dr. That seem like a good plan to you?



EDIT: I usually play NG too for the freedom it gives me roleplaying. However, people that are very serious roleplayers pick an alignment that fits the story they have made for their character. I know u don't like anecdotes, but most of the people I ahve convinced to try DDO from PNP made a kind of DDO version of a PNP character. complete with alginments.

[SableShadow]

Na I just had to be chaotic neutral.

w00t! Really the most bestamest of alignments.

Is our Llama server up yet?

I have a vision of the new loot they're adding to quests in mod9:
Named Holy Silver Melee Weapons

Wait for it... you'll see I'm right.

I'm certainly not going to bet against you.

As far as Min II, this feels like a light nerf compared to some I was expecting...as far as Transmuting, is there anything these would be used for with this change? I don't mean the gut reaction of "zomg nevah!!!", I mean I can't recall anything these would actually be used for other than mindflayers and ... vampires? Anything else that material only bypasses DR on?

[ducetrae]

Can't be used by them or you're on the bandwagon predicting they will be too expensive to acquire? If the former, why do you say that?

you need a 20 umd how many melees have that unless of cours they are good not chaotic aligned but i dont think all the ddo population is good alighned. there fore they cant use them

[branmakmuffin]

Well thats impossible and you know it. What is a fact is that most plat-poor casual gamers that don't have UMD won't be able to cut pit fiend dr. That seem like a good plan to you?

Wait, what's the connection here between "plat poor" and "UMD?" If they're plat poor, they (hypothetically) won't be able to buy transmuters of pure good which prices are going to (theoretically) skyrocket. If they don't have UMD, they won't have to worry about not being able to afford transmuters of pure good because they won't be able to wield them anyway. But I suppose your point is that with the way it works now, they can get a non-good transmuter and it will do the job.

you need a 20 umd how many melees have that unless of cours they are good not chaotic aligned but i dont think all the ddo population is good alighned. there fore they cant use them

That's clearly why we need not a Ring of Evasion but a Ring of 20 UMD.

[MrCow]

I mean I can't recall anything these would actually be used for other than mindflayers and ... vampires? Anything else that material only bypasses DR on?

• Flesh Golem (Adamantine)
• Iron Golem (Adamantine)
• Adamantine Defender (Adamantine)
• Mind Flayer (ByesKh)
• Ghaele (Cold Iron)
• Bralani (Cold Iron)
• Stormreaver (Mithril)
• Orthon (Silver)
• Bearded Devil (Silver)
• Vampire (Silver)

Utilizing Transmuting with the paladin capstone Weapons of Good should also allow things like Transmuting of Greater Evil Outsider Bane to be effective in their hands.

[ducetrae]

check this out TURBINE was suppoesed to launch a big ad campeighn (how ever you spell it) and bring new people to ddo this was supposed to be a launchpad for new players and advertising ...the whole shabang ....what new players are going to enjoy a game where they cant get into a party because the will feel worthless and in adequate. and why would someone want to continue anything in which they feel inadequate or horrible at. people dont play games they are bad at .

[vtecfiend99]

Wait, what's the connection here between "plat poor" and "UMD?" If they're plat poor, they (hypothetically) won't be able to buy transmuters of pure good which prices are going to (theoretically) skyrocket. If they don't have UMD, they won't have to worry about not being able to afford transmuters of pure good because they won't be able to wield them anyway. But I suppose your point is that with the way it works now, they can get a non-good transmuter and it will do the job.

Connection between plat poor and umd: Pure good requires umd if you are not good. If you are plat poor and made the honest choice of being a non good alignemnt and arent a UMD class you are SCREWED. No trans of pure good, no min2 becasue you are casual, no holy silver becasue it's expensive. the only option open to you would be transmuting flametouched iron (X) and thats gonne be pretty rare. Not a good scenario to have.

It's not broke now. there is no reason to fix it.

[Auran82]

To be honest, that is something I never thought of.

What happens to the poor melees who have a neutral alignment, they can't simply go and find a Transmuting of PG weapon, they are stuck looking for Holy Silver, Mineral II or Transmuting Flametouched Iron of something. We're not talking about trying to find something to do top damage to harry, we're talking about finding an weapon that will probably get groups to allow you in the shroud in the first place.

My first character was a rogue who I made as NG, for no other reason than it was a common alignment I used in PnP. Every time I see a 'taint of evil' item, it annoys me that I probably never be able to use it (well, without taking a neg level)

Alignment is one of those fairly arbitrary choices you make at character creation which probably has more of an effect on your character than it should.

[SableShadow]

• Flesh Golem (Adamantine)
• Iron Golem (Adamantine)
• Adamantine Defender (Adamantine)
• Mind Flayer (ByesKh)
• Ghaele (Cold Iron)
• Bralani (Cold Iron)
• Stormreaver (Mithril)
• Orthon (Silver)
• Bearded Devil (Silver)
• Vampire (Silver)

Ah! Thanks muchly.

I'd assumed the "evil dudes" in that list also required some flavor of "good" also...or is that just the named ones? Or just raid bosses? Demons would rank in there as well, then, as cold iron.

[Auran82]

Ah! Thanks muchly.

I'd assumed the "evil dudes" in that list also required some flavor of "good" also...or is that just the named ones? Or just raid bosses? Demons would rank in there as well, then, as cold iron.

You will find that many of the DRs change at hard or elite difficulty, I think Orthons and the Devils are like this. Normal DR is Good or Silver, at elite it becomes Good AND Silver.

[branmakmuffin]

Connection between plat poor and umd: Pure good requires umd if you are not good. If you are plat poor and made the honest choice of being a non good alignemnt and arent a UMD class you are SCREWED. No trans of pure good, no min2 becasue you are casual, no holy silver becasue it's expensive. the only option open to you would be transmuting flametouched iron (X) and thats gonne be pretty rare. Not a good scenario to have.

It's not broke now. there is no reason to fix it.

On a slight tangent, too bad Righteous is not good-aligned (which it seems like it should be, regardless of what it is in PnP). That would add another option for the non-good aligned.

[Venar]

So, currently, you are better off crafting a Mineral 2 MAUL over a Greataxe...

[MrCow]

I'd assumed the "evil dudes" in that list also required some flavor of "good" also...or is that just the named ones? Or just raid bosses? Demons would rank in there as well, then, as cold iron.

Some named devils (namely our Pit Fiend and Horned Devil) require silver and good. The rest are all bypassed with either silver or good.

Our demons (renders/flensers/reavers) are specifically cold iron and good (or law for Thaarak Hounds), no deviations. It used to be lower-end renders/flensers/reavers required one or the other, but that was changed.

Our eladrin (Bralani and Ghaele) require cold iron or evil, with the exception of everyone's favorite, Taeron Rimond, needing cold iron and evil.


*EDIT* - As posted by Auran82, some critters change from one form of DR to another on various difficulties.

[SableShadow]

You will find that many of the DRs change at hard or elite difficulty, I think Orthons and the Devils are like this. Normal DR is Good or Silver, at elite it becomes Good AND Silver.

Ah! Yeah, *that's* what I was looking for. Thanks muchly.

[SableShadow]

Some named devils (namely our Pit Fiend and Horned Devil) require silver and good. The rest are all bypassed with either silver or good.

Our demons (renders/flensers/reavers) are specifically cold iron and good (or law for Thaarak Hounds), no deviations. It used to be lower-end renders/flensers/reavers required one or the other, but that was changed.

Our eladrin (Bralani and Ghaele) require cold iron or evil, with the exception of everyone's favorite, Taeron Rimond, needing cold iron and evil.

There we go! Been too long since I had to worry about any of that...thanks again.