Multiclass: Sin or Discipline?

[Djeserit]

To some players…

Multiclassing as a kind of sin. Taking a multiclass is a temptation. It’s not something you plan. At one point you are leveling up and just walk over to the wrong trainer, like visiting a *****, and take a dip into a new class. Keeping their class pure is like guarding their virginity. They feel there should be a reward for staying pure. Taking a second class is like having an affair. You get a short-term thrill from the new abilities the second class brings, but in the long-term you regret the second class because you have damaged your long-term relationship.

For other players…

Multiclassing is a discipline. They plan their levels carefully. Often the splash class lowers their BAB, which hurts a low to midlevel fighter. They slow their advancement in spell levels, which hurts a low level caster. They balance their stat allocation at start, which hurts at first, but over time is compensated by their level-ups. In the end they have a multifaceted, self-sufficient, more entertaining character, which is also unique and feels like their own design and creation.

So which are you? Is multiclassing a sin or a discipline?

[Djeserit]

Bullrush – Ftr2/Bar1/Ran1 Dwarf
Bullrush is a multiclass sinner. He was created for maximum play value at fourth level. He is active whenever I want to play with a friend who has a new toon. He can power through any of the low-level material. All my friends love to be Bullrushed.

Loosestrife – Ran 9/Ftr1 Elf
Loosestrife is my range-oriented ranger. He has stopped at level ten because there isn’t any game content that tempts me to go further with him. Missing the capstone would gimp him as a ranger. But that fighter level is luscious at level 10. It allows me to take all the feats for Sniper as well as ICiercing. I love to cut loose in the desert, vale, or ruins of Gianthold with Loosestrife.

[Djeserit]

Toadflax – Pal14/Mnk2 Drow
For the first few levels, before I took weapon finesse, my BAB was 1. I couldn’t hit a Kobald on solo. This toon was gimp. I had to get a friend to open “The Deadly Package’ so I could run it twelve times in twenty minutes immediately after creation and jump direct to level 3. From there on this guy has become my best hitter. Divine Might and Divine Sacrifice combined with nasty stat damagers, strong HP and AC, powerful Smites and LOH, extended Zeal and crazy evasion is a great combination. I didn’t get Zeal until level 16, because of the two monk splashes. It took great discipline to hold on while other Paladins were zipping around at level 14. But evasion, better AC and two extra feats were essential to making this guy work.

Fleabane – Clr13/Mnk2/Wiz1 Halfling
My favorite of all characters. I don’t usually talk about it much; if people realize how over-powered this build is, the Dev’s will gimp it for sure. But Flea leveled up kind of hard. All those cross classes really slowed down my spell progression. I didn’t get Raise Dead until level 12! I burned through a ton of res scrolls for people who expected a level 9 cleric to raise them and thus ran heedlessly into danger. That wasn’t fun. But the reward was worth it. Around level 13 I knew this was an incredible build. The discipline continues; I won’t get my full power BB or Heal until level 18, Mass Heal until level 20. But I know the wait will be worth it. This toon will be more fun and powerful than any pure class cleric.

[branmakmuffin]

Multi-classing is the lameness we must put up with since DDO is based on D&D, which is a class-based RPG.

Really, why should I have to give my character 2 levels of Rogue or Monk of 9 of Ranger to get Evasion? Why not make a Fear Tree leading to Evasion?

[Osharan_Tregarth]

So which are you? Is multiclassing a sin or a discipline?

Discipline. All the way.


I cringe whenever I hear someone asking if I think they should pick up a level of "whatever" for "something or other".

[BurningDownTheHouse]

Really, why should I have to give my character 2 levels of Rogue or Monk of 9 of Ranger to get Evasion? Why not make a Fear Tree leading to Evasion?

Because then (for instance) any fighter that doesn't have evasion, will automatically be dabed a gimp...

[branmakmuffin]

Because then (for instance) any fighter that doesn't have evasion, will automatically be dabed a gimp...

Aren't they already dubbed that?

[FluffyCalico]

Because then (for instance) any fighter that doesn't have evasion, will automatically be dabed a gimp...

/2 could be a gimp now as they miss the capstone 10%

[rezo]

I got both types, it's what you want to go for in the game. I got one fighter that has evasion and one that doesn't. Not that much different between them.

[HumanJHawkins]

Is multiclassing a sin or a discipline?

Multiclassing is like throwing in odd ingredients into a dinner you are making. If you know ecactly what you are doing, you can make something great. But if you are unskilled or just experimenting, it will be ****.

So, I say discipline, like cooking.

So says a guy who played several pure classes to cap (some classes more than once) before ever multiclassing. And, I now have 3 multiclassed builds that are far superior to their pure class counterparts (and a pure cleric, sorc, and bard who could not possibly be improved by any splash levels of anything... To splash or not depends greatly on the main class.)

[BurningDownTheHouse]

Aren't they already dubbed that?

/2 could be a gimp now as they miss the capstone 10%

Exactly, and you people want even MORE resons for this piegeonholing?

[sisterjinx]

Discipline! I seldom splash because most of the toons I play I prefer pure builds on but I am toying with a new build and thus far I love her. It's a pain and I haven't worked out all the kinks yet so she may be the test on the build and get rebuilt once I work it all out. (saving all her low stuff in case lol)

[Borror0]

Multi-classing is the lameness we must put up with since DDO is based on D&D, which is a class-based RPG.

Multiclassing is a great addition to and makes a lot of sense in a class-based RPG.

Not that this conflicts with what you said. I know you prefer point-based RPG over class-based.

[branmakmuffin]

Multiclassing is a great addition to and makes a lot of sense in a class-based RPG.

Multi-classing is a necessary evil in a class-based system. Since WotC didn't make 3.0 a classless system, allowing any race to (more or less) freely multi-class was the next best thing.

Exactly, and you people want even MORE resons for this piegeonholing?

Either not having Evasion makes a front-line melee character a gimp, or it does not. If it does, then making it available to all (as a Feat, not via a magic item, just to keep the Ring of Evasion thing out of this discussion) is a good thing, because everyone's character will be less gimpy. If lack of Evasion does not mean "gimp," then people giving it to their Fighters/Paladins/Barbarians would be a waste of time, and a Feat. So where exactly is the problem? How is this contributing to any "pigeon-holing?"

[Borror0]

Multiclassing as a kind of sin. Taking a multiclass is a temptation. It’s not something you plan. At one point you are leveling up and just walk over to the wrong trainer, like visiting a *****, and take a dip into a new class. Keeping their class pure is like guarding their virginity. They feel there should be a reward for staying pure. Taking a second class is like having an affair. You get a short-term thrill from the new abilities the second class brings, but in the long-term you regret the second class because you have damaged your long-term relationship.

I doubt that's a very good description.

More than likely, the character wanting to stay pure wants to play that class and not that class and something else. If we take the paladin class as an example, the player wants to play a paladin, not a paladin with six levels of rangers. He does not want to progress as a ranger; he wants to progress as a paladin.

It's not a sin. It's not a temptation. It's doing what they want.

If multiclassing can be seen as a temptation, it's more likely because going pure is gimping yourself. Or, if you prefer, that multiclassing is just much more rewarding that staying pure becomes an hard choice. It's a bit similar to temptation because, while they want to stay pure and progress as a paladin, their character would be far weaker than they want it to be.

That's why there are capstones: for those players who like to always progress in one class.

[toughguyjoe]

Multi-classing is a necessary evil in a class-based system. Since WotC didn't make 3.0 a classless system, allowing any race to (more or less) freely multi-class was the next best thing.

I've played Both types of games, my Main point based game was World of Darkness In its many formats.

I have to say that i like both, however there was ALOT of pigeonholing in the class based system that i could see.

These powers work best, you're a gimp without them. Why not buy all of the best things when you can buy anything you want?

Class based systems work fine as well, as long as the classes are balanced. for D&D 3.5, not DDO we have to take that with a grian of salt. its very harde to balance two different styles of combat(spell and weapon) so as to make the game fair. 3.5 did its best, but the spells are at times too much. so house rules come into play.

to get back on topic however, I like multiclassing discipline. planning a build and making sure that it will work exactly how you want through your leveling is a very rewarding process.

in a point based system its somewhat less rewarding..as things tend to increase much slower, but more steadily. class based you get a jump at level. Point based you might get a point or two per session of roleplaying.

i like both.

[branmakmuffin]

in a point based system its somewhat less rewarding..as things tend to increase much slower, but more steadily. class based you get a jump at level. Point based you might get a point or two per session of roleplaying.

i like both.

You're kind of conflating "level-based" with "class-based." D&D is both, but a game does not have to be both. D&D could easily be converted into a level-based, classless system.

[HumanJHawkins]

I just wanted to add, truely multiclassing (i.e. 8 levels of each, or 5-6 levels of three different cllasses) is probably always a horrible idea... I've never seen a build even close to that that made sense.

Splashing 2 levels of fighter for feats, or 3 of pally for saves and AC and immunities and self-healing, or 1 monk for AC or 2 rogue for evasion are about all that would ever make sense. So going further would not be a sin. It would just be a mistake.

[BurningDownTheHouse]

Either not having Evasion makes a front-line melee character a gimp, or it does not. If it does, then making it available to all (as a Feat, not via a magic item, just to keep the Ring of Evasion thing out of this discussion) is a good thing, because everyone's character will be less gimpy. If lack of Evasion does not mean "gimp," then people giving it to their Fighters/Paladins/Barbarians would be a waste of time, and a Feat. So where exactly is the problem? How is this contributing to any "pigeon-holing?"

Adding must-haves of any kind is pigeonholing.

[Borror0]

Adding must-haves of any kind is pigeonholing.

I think you're missing his point. Abilities should be select as if there was no class by picking feats. Period. That's all.

Balancing the abilities fir that new system is not something he disagrees with, I am sure.