Feedback on build...

[Propane]

Hello Peps!-

I am about to roll up a new character and hopefully end up with tweaked (and improved) version of my current 28 pt build dwarven cleric(13)/fighter(3). I would like to get some feed back from fellow players before I get started…

My thought behind this build is to be a cleric first / melee & support second. I want to have Mass Heal at end game, so only a max of 3 non-cleric levels. I also want a survivable build (aka good HP), so that is why I chose dwarf. At 16th level, I choose a second fighter level with Khopesh feat – but one could take a different feat fighter side (toughness, etc) and use long swords, D axe, etc with great axe or great sword for the 2 handed stuff…

The gear layout should be achievable with out a crazy amount of time (ok -maybe a lot of hound runs).

For a simpler (less tomes and/or a 28 pt build) – drop the UMD stuff first, then drop the Intimidate – this is what my current build is and she is a blast to run! Thanks for the feedback!

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Lawful Neutral Dwarf Female
(2 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 13 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 1022 
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 7
Will: 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             13                    16
Dexterity             9                    12
Constitution         15                    18
Intelligence         15                    16
Wisdom               17                    22
Charisma              6                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               4                     9
Bluff                 3                     4
Concentration         5                    21
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                3                     4
Heal                  6                     8
Hide                  0                     1
Intimidate            3                    20
Jump                  6                     9
Listen                4                     6
Move Silently         0                     1
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                3                     3
Search                3                     5
Spot                  8                    10
Swim                  2                     3
Tumble                4                     5
Use Magic Device      3                    19

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith I
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery III

Helm: Minos helm <--> Concentration
Necklace: + 3 umd / 6 wis  Shroud N/P/P +6 Wis / 45 Hp (Concordant Opposition??) (2nd)
Trinket: HoGF, Mbat, Bloodstone
Cloak: Resis + 4 CHR + 2
Belt: Proof against Poison with Greater False life
Ring#1:Con +6
Gloves: GOEternity
Boots: Striding 30%, Dex +6 / Solid Fog Clicky
Ring#2: Intimidate +11 / Chr +6 / swap spot
Bracers: Levik's Bracers (+6 str +20% incoming healing)
Armor: Full plate of Defender (Full Fort, +2 hit, protection +4)
Goggles: Trapblast  Shroud Air/Air/Air (Wiz VI, 150 sp, +6 CHR skills, Haste) (1st)
Shield: +5 Mith / Madstone / Levik’s / Lorrik

Spell Points

1022 base
300 Shroud item
66 (10+12) * 3 wis item)
------
1388 Normal

Hit Points

282 Base LV 16
19 Minos
30 GFL
45 Shroud item
48 + 6 Con Item
----------------
424

Concentration

19 skill points
7 con (with +6 con item)
5 Shroud item (HP item)
2 HoGF
-------
43 (+ 13 if helm)

Intimidate

20 skill points
11 ring
6 shroud
2 HoGF
1 cloak
-----
40 standing


UMD

19 skill points
6 shroud item
2 HoGF
1 cloak (CHR)
-------
27 standing

2 cloak (switching to +6 chr)
2 Hero pot
2 rouge skill boost
3 necklace
------
36 short term / self buffed

AC

10 Base
+13 Armor from +5 Mith FP (of Defender)
+9 Shield (Leviks)
+4 Protection (of Defender)
+4 Dex
+4 Insight (Shroud weapon – or 3 with Levik’s shield)
+1 Alchemical Armor Eldritch Ritual" - Grants armor a +1 alchemical bonus to AC
+1 Alchemical Shield Eldritch Ritual" - Grants your shield a +1 alchemical bonus to AC.
46 Unbuffed

[Hobgoblin]

46 ac isnt that much in end game. i would drop 1 fighter level and pick u evasion myself

[Propane]

I thought about doing that, but I think my dex is too low to make that work too well... If I put more into dex, I would suffer somewhere else... I will try to tweak that today... maybe take WIS down a notch...

I could work on the gear side, the chattering ring would be give me 3 more (swap spot), with bark skin (3), that would push me to 52. That is getting close - always thought 55ish would be an AC worth having....

I haven't looked at the DT armor that much... isn't the base on that 15?

CE isn't a good idea, I think I would be casting too much and don't like to have to reset it each time after I cast...Maybe I am too lazy

[Sequell]

Why not make it a Clonk build? 14 Cleric / 2 Monk?

[Joemama]

i dont know what the 1 lvl of rogue is.... why not do 2 rogue and 1 fighter?

[Kalanth]

Why not make it a Clonk build? 14 Cleric / 2 Monk?

Cause thats trendy, and Propane does not want trendy.

I like the idea of Rogue 2 as well for the evasion, but it may be to much of a stretch to do with your abilities spread as they are. And, with UMD being Charisma based, I would look at brinigng that up a touch, maybe start at 7 (if you have a +1 tome laying around) or 8, then work on a +3 tome later on in life to boost the base to a 10 and wear a +6 item. 16 is better than 10, afterall.

Course, sticking with 2 fighter feats is fine as well, but is there a specific need in that second level? I see the exotic weapon prof in Khopesh, but at 16? Why not move that prior to taking Improved Crit: Slashing? The crit range is good on it's own that you will notice a difference with the weapon, and then add the feat later in life to boost your DPS by that much. Otherwise you will be carrying a bunch of weapons you might not care about for a long time.

[Propane]

Ha - I have been called a lot of things - trendy has never been one of them

I stared out with 3 level of Fighter - but couldn't get the skill points to work out for any meaning full UMD...

By starting with the Rogue at level 1, I have more skill points at the begining and can progress better with both the UMD and Intimidate. At fighter 2 - one gets the feat and a STR +1... Fighter 3 didn't add that much...

FT at level two allows for more equipment use - I could wait a little longer to take it though...

[tihocan]

If you really want your AC to be meaningful you probably should aim at 55+ with reasonable gear and thus you probalby need CE. Otherwise, getting evasion seems like a better option to me, though your low base dex is definitely an issue here.
At the very least, I would drop start int to 14 and get a +2 tome, saving 2 precious build points you can invest in strength (or dex if going towards evasion?)

Other than that, as long as you don't mind having trouble finding pugs, it sounds fun (though definitely not super-optimal)

[Propane]

Thanks for the input…
I made a few tweeks (and need to find an Int tome…)
Dropped Wis by a point
Picked up CE

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Lawful Neutral Dwarf Female
(2 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 13 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 298
Spell Points: 1022 
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 7
Will: 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             13                    16
Dexterity            10                    12
Constitution         17                    20
Intelligence         14                    16
Wisdom               16                    22
Charisma              7                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 16
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               4                     9
Bluff                 3                     4
Concentration         6                    22
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                3                     4
Heal                  5                     8
Hide                  0                     1
Intimidate            3                    20
Jump                  6                     9
Listen                3                     6
Move Silently         0                     1
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                3                     3
Search                3                     5
Spot                  7                    10
Swim                  2                     3
Tumble                4                     5
Use Magic Device      3                    19

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith I
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery III

Helm: Concentration / Intimidate / swap
Necklace: + 3 umd / 6 wis  Shroud N/P/P +6 Wis / 45 Hp (Concordant Opposition??) (2nd)
Trinket: HoGF, Mbat, Bloodstone
Cloak: Resis + 4 CHR + 2 / Chr +6
Belt: Proof against Poison with Greater False life
Ring#1:Con +6
Gloves: GOEternity
Boots: Striding 30%, Dex +6 / Solid Fog Clicky
Ring#2: Chattering Ring
Bracers: Levik's Bracers (+6 str +20% incoming healing)
Armor: Full plate of Defender (Full Fort, +2 hit, protection +4)
Goggles: Trapblast  Shroud Air/Air/Air (Wiz VI, 150 sp, +6 CHR skills, Haste) (1st)
Shield: +5 Mith / Madstone / Levik’s / Lorrik

Spell Points

1022 base
300 Shroud item
66 (10+12) * 3 wis item)
------
1388 Normal

Hit Points

298 Base LV 16
30 GFL
45 Shroud item
48 + 6 Con Item
----------------
421

Concentration

19 skill points
7 con (with +6 con item)
5 Shroud item (HP item)
2 HoGF
-------
33 Standing
+ 11 / 13 Swap Helm Spot

Intimidate

22 skill points
6 shroud
2 HoGF
1 cloak
-----
31 standing
+ 11 / 13 Helm Spot


UMD

19 skill points
6 shroud item
2 HoGF
1 cloak (CHR)
-------
27 standing

2 cloak (switching to +6 chr)
2 Hero pot
2 rouge skill boost
3 necklace
------
36 short term / self buffed

AC

10 Base
+13 Armor from +5 Mith FP (of Defender)
+9 Shield (Leviks)
+4 Protection (of Defender)
+4 Dex
+3 Chattering Ring
+4 Insight (Shroud weapon – or 3 with Levik’s shield)
+1 Alchemical Armor Eldritch Ritual" - Grants armor a +1 alchemical bonus to AC
+1 Alchemical Shield Eldritch Ritual" - Grants your shield a +1 alchemical bonus to AC.
----
49 Standing

+5 CE
+3 Bark Skin

----
57 selfbuffed

[Impaqt]

What exactly do you plan on using UMD for?

I'm having a hard time justifying the 3 SPlash levels.... Kills any potential for a Tier 3 PRe.

Taking Mental Toughness as a feat while taking superflous Fighter levels is rather innefficient....

If you Drop one of the fighter levels and pick up 18 Cleric you can drop Improved Mental Toughness for one of your fighter feats, wind up with more spell Points, and still qualify for tier 3 PrE's when they come out.

[Impaqt]

think about this a second....

We want to melee, but our str is low and we took power attack to make make hitting things much harder.

We're putting level up points into wisdom, but not bothering to put any enhancements into Wisdom.

We're concentrating on CHR Skills first and foremost, but we dumped CHR as a base stat. and then take CHR enh's.

Now we say we want to be a healer first, but take CE and count that into our AC Stats.... CE Breaks every time we cast, use a wand, or use many potions..... Its not Practical at all.....

We go with Dwarf..... But then take Khopesh as a Feat late in the Build?

well, I'll flesh it out more if ya like, but I really cant figure out what the goal of the build is as I go though it... You lose some HP's with this build, but you Gain Evasion which makes up for the 50ish HP's IMO. The three skills you wanted remail, Kopesh Remains, you get a little better reflex save to go with the evasion, more Spell Points, even though Improved Mental Toughness is missing, and you can still do a Tier 3 PrE when they come out.. Which, IMO, is critical.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 True Neutral Human Male
(2 Rogue \ 14 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 240
Spell Points: 1036 
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 9
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             14                    16
Dexterity            11                    14
Constitution         15                    16
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom               16                    25
Charisma              9                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               4                     6
Bluff                -1                     0
Concentration         4                    22
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device        5                     6
Haggle               -1                     0
Heal                  3                     7
Hide                  0                     2
Intimidate            3                    19
Jump                  6                     7
Listen                3                     7
Move Silently         0                     2
Open Lock             4                     8
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                5                     6
Spot                  7                    11
Swim                  2                     3
Tumble                4                     6
Use Magic Device      3                    22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery IV

Its just not Geling for me at all.... lemme show ya what we can do with a 14Cleric/2Rogue build... Human.... (I'd actualy rather go 2Monk, but you want UMD for some reason so I'l stick there for now..... ) I'll link the build once I get it fleshed out.

[Kalanth]

What exactly do you plan on using UMD for?

I'm having a hard time justifying the 3 Splash levels.... Kills any potential for a Tier 3 PRe.

Taking Mental Toughness as a feat while taking superflous Fighter levels is rather innefficient....

If you Drop one of the fighter levels and pick up 18 Cleric you can drop Improved Mental Toughness for one of your fighter feats, wind up with more spell Points, and still qualify for tier 3 PrE's when they come out.

My only thought here is this. What if, and this is purely hypothetical, but what if... Tier 3 PrE's suck (or are not what he is after)? Just a thought there.

As for my advice, I would say I dislike the revised version a bit more than the original and definetly see the arguments that Impaqt is making. I know Propane personally and I know that he is not overly concerned about finding a group to jam with (he will never be without a party) and that the low strength won't hold him back out of melee (you can still hit consistently with a 16 and some buffs, I know from experience).

This is what I came up with in regards to a suggestion. Personally I don't care about Tier 3 PrE's, but Impaqt does have a point that we may want to consider them at this time. The second toughness feat can be swapped out for Improved Mental Toughness, Maximize Spell, Spell Penetration, Combat Expertise, Combat Casting, or any number of other feats. I like Kopesh wielding mad men, afterall that is what my Warchanter is, but with a dwarf the axe is really one of the better ways to go:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(1 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 14 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 262
Spell Points: 1073 
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 8
Will: 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             14                    18
Dexterity            12                    14
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         14                    16
Wisdom               16                    22
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 16
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 16
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 16
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 16
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 16
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               5                    10
Bluff                -1                     0
Concentration         2                    17
Diplomacy             3                     4
Disable Device        6                     7
Haggle                3                     4
Heal                  3                    20
Hide                  1                     2
Intimidate            3                     6
Jump                  6                     8
Listen                3                     6
Move Silently         1                     2
Open Lock             5                     6
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                2                     3
Search                6                     9
Spot                  7                    10
Swim                  2                     4
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      3                    19

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith I
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith II
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith III
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

[Impaqt]

My only thought here is this. What if, and this is purely hypothetical, but what if... Tier 3 PrE's suck (or are not what he is after)? Just a thought there.

What if they dont suck? Is it worth a reroll? WIth three PrE's in the plan, its a safe be ONE of them willbe appealing.

As for my advice, I would say I dislike the revised version a bit more than the original and definetly see the arguments that Impaqt is making. I know Propane personally and I know that he is not overly concerned about finding a group to jam with (he will never be without a party) and that the low strength won't hold him back out of melee (you can still hit consistently with a 16 and some buffs, I know from experience).

Oh, I know a 16 isnt bad for a battle cleric.... But how about a 2 STR? Yes TWO... cause once you pop on Power attack and strap on a Tower Sheild your TO hit is the equivalent of -14STR.

+5 Damage from Power attack doesnt add up when your missing your target 25% more.

This is what I came up with in regards to a suggestion. Personally I don't care about Tier 3 PrE's, but Impaqt does have a point that we may want to consider them at this time. The second toughness feat can be swapped out for Improved Mental Toughness, Maximize Spell, Spell Penetration, Combat Expertise, Combat Casting, or any number of other feats. I like Kopesh wielding mad men, afterall that is what my Warchanter is, but with a dwarf the axe is really one of the better ways to go:

I agree that axes are the way to go on a Dwarven Cleric. Especially when ya consider the 2d8 Damage of the Greensteel ones....

I would still like to know why UMD is so important to the build though.

[Kalanth]

What if they dont suck? Is it worth a reroll? WIth three PrE's in the plan, its a safe be ONE of them willbe appealing.

Oh, I know a 16 isnt bad for a battle cleric.... But how about a 2 STR? Yes TWO... cause once you pop on Power attack and strap on a Tower Sheild your TO hit is the equivalent of -14STR.

+5 Damage from Power attack doesnt add up when your missing your target 25% more.

I agree. I have power attack on my warchanter, cause you have to, and I never use it. Just not worth it, honestly.

I agree that axes are the way to go on a Dwarven Cleric. Especially when ya consider the 2d8 Damage of the Greensteel ones....

I would still like to know why UMD is so important to the build though.

Dunno the answer there. Some are just obsessed with that skill and I have never really understood it. I would completely drop the UMD out of the character and focus on something else. Two Rogue, maybe two fighters, don't know (just know he wants some splash in there) but UMD is not that important as I see it.

[Propane]

Thanks for the feed back… a lot of good points are made…
I don’t play “a lot” and don’t expect to have this toon to lv 16 for 3-4 months, with that being said, I really want to make sure I plan well because of “limited” time I can play.

1) opps – messed up the action points on the one – need to get the WIS bonus
2) without knowing what the Tier 3 PrE will be, keeping 2 levels of splash is a good idea
3) UMD is the end all – I just hate having issues using some gear and would like the ability to do some self-buffing – ss, teleport, reconstruction, wands of Force missile even come in handy.
4) I have been playing around with Power Attack on my 13cl/3ft and you are 100% correct – at end game (even with Divine Power) I don’t hit as much as I would like and end up turning it off
5) If I do end up with CE, that would be for the times I turtle up – I wouldn’t be casting or swing much – with that being said – it might not happen often enough to bother with… (don’t see me tanking the hound much…)
6) The low CHR is the only way I saw to make the rest if the abilities to work out.. making up for the CHR with a higher INT and skill points – farther a head in the long run.. + 2 int  15 skill points – even with 2 for 1 I am still at 7 points vs the +1 the extra CHR would give me…

With that being said I am looking for a …

very non-squish cleric
can do ok damage with a weapon
be tough enough that I can intimate and tank up – taking agro from the party at times

I will spend some more time on the build and post another attempt or two…

I will try one without any UMD. one will a ok amount, and I will a good amount.
The 2 rouge type build is interesting – but I would have to rethink my equipment to keep evasion reasonable (and the saves high enough)

I will ponder some and post again later – off to try to find some more +2 tomes!

[Kalanth]

One important thing to note is that if UMD is the only skill you are really interested in then you only really need a 12 Int which would give you +2 skill points per level.

[Comfortably]

Why not make it a Clonk build? 14 Cleric / 2 Monk?

If you really want evasion and the rogue lvl go 13cleric/2monk/1 rogue, a good friend of mine did that only human and he loves it.