Roq Star, a pure 2wf battlebard for mod 9 and beyond

[BoBoDaClown]

And I had to walk uphill both ways!

On shards of broken glass!

[CombatLibrarian]

Spend some real cash, buy some turbine points, buy a tome from the DDO Store. It's a trivial ammount of money.

Maybe trivial to you, bub, but I used the points I could afford actually buying the content I'd need to get to 20 and have raids/epics to run when I got there. My income is extremely lean right now, and in the current national economy I can hardly be blamed for that. ;P

I'd say this is getting way too complicated. You don't need to put a level-up in dexterity. You can begin by taking Khopesh and Improved Critical at 9 and 12. You can take other filler feats at 15 and 18, and switch these out using your free feat exchange once you pull a +2 tome, which I assure you will happen eventually. In the mean time, I'd probably lean towards using two-handed weapons (no big deal) and then actually using the dual khopeshes once you have specced into improved and greater two weapon fighting. It's not like you can't enjoy the build with this feature delayed a few levels.

And hey, when I was first rolling my alts, those tomes were like double that, and considered quite cheap! And there wasn't any Turbine store! And I had to walk uphill both ways!

That said, as the replies came long past when I had to level up (although i do appreciate them and will remember that in the future), I went ahead with my initial plan. And, well, I have no complaints. Khopeshes hit like little handheld freight trains. Inna face. I'm still quite enjoying the build, just hit 13 on it and picked up +6 str bracers and a couple of holy burst peshes. The damage is delicious, and I only have to break out the divine power clickies on elite named high-ac mobs (maybe a couple of same on hard, but that's rare). This is by far my favorite character so far, and will definitely be my first to hit level 20. It reminds me a bit of enhancement shaman in That Other MMO, back when it brought buffs noone else could and could be tweaked and nudged into doing quite respectable melee DPS on top with the appropriate build and gear. (And was. Yanno. Fun.)

Push comes to absolute shove, by the time I hit 20 I should be able to afford a lesser/greater reincarnation to rejuggle her stats into something a little more prime if the items I pull make that advantageous.

[CombatLibrarian]

Any thoughts on where to tweak this for Warchanter II?

[Anthios888]

Any thoughts on where to tweak this for Warchanter II?

Hey hey. It's basically just an action point change. Here are my current APs, and I have updated the original post to reflect this:

Bard Extra Song I
Bard Inspired Attack III
Bard Inspired Bravery III
Bard Inspired Damage III
Bard Lingering Song IV (could get away with less, but this is a nice luxury right now for me with so many more songs to keep going)
Bard Warchanter II
Bard Musical Prodigy
Human Greater Adaptability Strength
Human Greater Adaptability Constitution
Racial Toughness II
Bard Song Magic II
Bard Charisma II (basically only helps with UMD, so you can skip this if you wear an item. I decided the 6 AP was worth not wearing a bunny hat )
Bard Wand Mastery IV

So far, I'm loving warchanter II!

[reddoormedia]

Love the build. Running shroud now. Have a couple of khopeshes. Wondering how I should craft them. I see you recommendations for holy/acid burst/acid blast for both. You still think that's the best combo for this character? What's your logic if you don't mind me asking. I don't know enough about the game to make my own decision so just trying to expand my knowledge.

[Anthios888]

Love the build. Running shroud now. Have a couple of khopeshes. Wondering how I should craft them. I see you recommendations for holy/acid burst/acid blast for both. You still think that's the best combo for this character? What's your logic if you don't mind me asking. I don't know enough about the game to make my own decision so just trying to expand my knowledge.

Hey there! The reason I recommended the mineral IIs is because they are one of the best all-around weapons out there. It bypasses damage reduction on the important raid bosses, while being an excellent weapon on other monsters as well. The 4 stoneskin clickies really help, too. Especially if you're just starting out, this is a good way to go.

As far as how I did the good/earth/earth+good combination, I just recommend damage. Your AC might be useful while leveling, but it will never help at endgame, so insight 4 is not going to help you there. I actually made +2 con on one of my khopeshes, which is also fine (20 HP). But, there has been quite a bit of new equipment with the same +2 on it that will not stack with the greensteels. In retrospect, straight damage rarely goes out of style. After all, the best defense is a great offense!

If you start getting into epic, you might look at making a pair of earthgrab khopeshes or heavy picks for killing trash mobs there. These are pretty inexpensive, fortunately (half the cost of a dual shard).

Glad you enjoy the build!

edit: OP updated

[dv8maker123]

Howdy. I created a bard following this build about a month ago and just hit 18. Loving it so far (though I admit I am now at the crossroads of remaining pure versus taking the last two levels as a rogue). I'll be finishing the dragon armor series soon and was wondering what you would recommend for the armor type, Leather for the absence of the skill penalty, or Breastplate for the better AC? I would think they are a bit of a toss up, since AC tends to be less useful at this level, but the breast plate is a bit sexier. And in case folks are wondering, yes, this build is a dps machine and a ton of fun to play.

[Anthios888]

Howdy. I created a bard following this build about a month ago and just hit 18. Loving it so far (though I admit I am now at the crossroads of remaining pure versus taking the last two levels as a rogue). I'll be finishing the dragon armor series soon and was wondering what you would recommend for the armor type, Leather for the absence of the skill penalty, or Breastplate for the better AC? I would think they are a bit of a toss up, since AC tends to be less useful at this level, but the breast plate is a bit sexier. And in case folks are wondering, yes, this build is a dps machine and a ton of fun to play.

Hmmm. I went with robe. This is kind of a personal taste thing. I future proof by being able to switch back and forth if there is another armor (though this is less convenient with Epic Marilith Chain since it takes a sec to switch back, I still do it sometimes). Otherwise, breastplate is good if you want to look armored. I wouldn't fret the skill penalty, since your jump etc skills are in great shape since bards have so many skill points.

Glad you love the build as much as me! I am on my 3rd fighter TR to put some past lives behind me, and can't wait to get back to pure unadulterated bard.

[domecek1]

little advice: do this build with heavy picks. Double earth grab combo is cheap and very powerful.

[Anthios888]

little advice: do this build with heavy picks. Double earth grab combo is cheap and very powerful.

This is great advice, though it's good to point out it does not require a total philosophy change as far as this build goes. I was looking at re-speccing to a half orc by dropping the khopesh feat, but I found that in normal DPS situations, I was going to lose 10% DPS even with the power attack enhancements and extra strength. I prefer the best of both worlds: khopeshes as my primary mode and earthgrab picks for held monsters/epics I want to autocrit. Master's Touch FTW =)

Now, if you wanted to use a feat like extend or maximize, that would be a decent way to go on a human, but I found the DPS drop off pretty substantial.

[Alexkawasaki7]

Nice build! I like it, probably going to make one of my own. There's only one thing I'd change, I would drop improved critical slashing, and pick up extend for that 4 minute haste and displacement. Min 2 khopeshes have keen on them. =]

[Anthios888]

I would drop improved critical slashing, and pick up extend for that 4 minute haste and displacement. Min 2 khopeshes have keen on them. =]

But do up to ~30-36 fewer DPS (representing about 10% of the total output) than lightning II, and 10 fewer dps than chaosblades -- and that's when nothing has acid resistance. Trade offs! I know it sounds silly focusing so much on damage output on a bardic character, but I have really found that the better I can take out threats, the more survivable I am. And, the more justified I am in not being healing specced.

Another advantage of having improved critical on a character is being able to use any sick weapon you pick up. Whether it's that +5 holy bust / icy burst cold iron khopesh of pure good you just pulled, the epic Chaosblades, or prehaps the vorpal absolute chaos scimitars in the Pirate event, there is some appeal to being able to use any set of weapons, not just one pair crafted in the Shroud. Of course, if there is a new end-all-be-all weapon, you could just switch Extend back out to make use of improved critical.

If I was dropping a feat like improved critical, I would consider a race like half elf (rogue dill) or half orc for their bonuses to dps. But the racial bonuses would be hardly able to justify the drop in weapon damage! It gets kind of circular, eh?

To each her own. This is why I love DDO!

[gavijal]

Hi. Im totally new with bards, and new in ddo ( I have lvl 17 sorc). I really want to play bard but have some doubts. I want good/great melee who still have great (or best) songs and buffs (i dont care for CC- let wizzys do it) or healing (only my self and offheal a bit if its really needed - we have clerics and fvs for it). I cant decide which build to take, this one or The Classic Rocker http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=249865 so I have few questions

1.which 1 is better for lvling/solo?
2.which 1 is better or more needed in end game raid/epic?
3.which 1 is more gear dependent?
4. Is 10 base CHA enough for best songs and buffs?
5.which 1 is more fun to play?

Sorry for loads of questions and bad English

[Anthios888]

Hi. Im totally new with bards, and new in ddo ( I have lvl 17 sorc). I really want to play bard but have some doubts. I want good/great melee who still have great (or best) songs and buffs (i dont care for CC- let wizzys do it) or healing (only my self and offheal a bit if its really needed - we have clerics and fvs for it). I cant decide which build to take, this one or The Classic Rocker http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=249865 so I have few questions

1.which 1 is better for lvling/solo?\

Both

2.which 1 is better or more needed in end game raid/epic?

Both. This one is one of the best dps-spot bards around, and the classic rocker does nice DPS while being able to potentially fill a healer role.

3.which 1 is more gear dependent?

Probably this one is more gear dependent initially because it is two weapon fighting and has a lower to-hit starting off, but then again the Classic Rocker requires some healing gear and will never reach its potential without epic weapons. This is because 2HF is inherently way behind 2WF. But, 2WF is twice as expensive potentially. If you can muster at least two tier 2 greensteels, this one is pretty well set.

4. Is 10 base CHA enough for best songs and buffs?

Yep. The only amount of CHA to cast or sing is 16 with gear (accesses level 6 spells). Higher CHA is useful only for getting enough UMD to nofail heal scrolls (39 is the goal). You can reach 39 in a multitude of ways even with a base starting con of 6 or 8. I find 10 to 12 to be a really nice happy medium.

5.which 1 is more fun to play?

Probably this one, because it's a little more badass. But when you want to get **** done and you are short handed, the classic rocker is better able to fill in the healer role.

Sorry for loads of questions and bad English

No problem! We all start somewhere! Happy adventuring!

[gavijal]

Thank you for answers ( I can see we play on same server btw). But still have few questions. I made both of them. Roq star human which looks like D'artagnan from 3 musketeers (bard should look like that) with 2 long swords (for low lvls) and i made the classic Rocker Half Orc version . And Horc is funny, with a huge great sword every1 thinks im a barb not bard.
Question I like to ask is if both builds have green steel weapons how much difference in dps there would be? 10-20% ? Maybe less? Horcs have str boost right? U stated in other build that Horc is almost good in dps like a RoQ human. Is that difference enough to justify nerfed buff durations without extend and nerfed heals? Like them both tbh but can make my mind thats why still asking questions

[Anthios888]

Thank you for answers ( I can see we play on same server btw). But still have few questions. I made both of them. Roq star human which looks like D'artagnan from 3 musketeers (bard should look like that) with 2 long swords (for low lvls) and i made the classic Rocker Half Orc version . And Horc is funny, with a huge great sword every1 thinks im a barb not bard.
Question I like to ask is if both builds have green steel weapons how much difference in dps there would be? 10-20% ? Maybe less? Horcs have str boost right? U stated in other build that Horc is almost good in dps like a RoQ human. Is that difference enough to justify nerfed buff durations without extend and nerfed heals? Like them both tbh but can make my mind thats why still asking questions

Sounds like you should go for 2HF.

I have several bard characters, and I wanted to push the DPS at the exclusion of other areas, because I prefer a melee that can displace, haste, fascinate, sing the best songs in the game, and scroll heal (with amp and scroll mastery) over a plain old melee. That is this build.

The great thing about h-orc 2HF characters is that you can make up a lot of the old difference between the styles just by virtue of your race.

I haven't calced the builds with some of the most recent gear except using sword of shadows, but the h-orc build only equals greensteel khopeshes if it has epic sword of shadows. If I had to guess, I'd say 20-25% or more DPS between greensteel 2HF & Epic SoS -- it's pretty huge.

[gavijal]

Well now u done it. Now I really dont know what 2 do . Hmm Its more likely that Ill grab 2 green steel over a eSOS (im in small guild). Ok , 1 more question and Ill stop bothering you ( Ill buy you few drinks in Lobster inn for it) .. normally I read " Bards are not DPS " , so how ppl react in PUGs when you start to melee?

RoQ build have maxed songs?

[Anthios888]

Well now u done it. Now I really dont know what 2 do . Hmm Its more likely that Ill grab 2 green steel over a eSOS (im in small guild). Ok , 1 more question and Ill stop bothering you ( Ill buy you few drinks in Lobster inn for it) .. normally I read " Bards are not DPS " , so how ppl react in PUGs when you start to melee?

RoQ build have maxed songs?

How do people react?

Who cares! I am clear about my weaknesses, and am not the kind of player who is too proud to throw a scroll when needed. Most people come around within a few minutes, even if they are unsure or skeptical about my role in the party. I lead a majority of groups that I am in and although some PuGgers have thrown fits over having five bards in a Shroud run or something, most are pleasantly surprised.

Although people often try to boil DDO down to filling a couple of key roles or pigeonholing certain classes into specific habits, this game is one of the most flexible I have ever played. Good players with strategic approaches to their build, gear, and playstyle will be able to succeed with virtually anything. More and more people are coming around to understand that.

And it's not exactly like building a DPS bard is against the grain of the spirit of the class -- warchanter gives very healthy bonuses to melee, and scroll mastery allows for better-than-other-classes healing even without metamagic feats. In fact, if it weren't for the fact that other melees benefit from bardsongs, this bard would top many mid-range melee builds out there head to head. The very fact that it works so well in melee parties is why playing it is fun for me, since this is ultimately a group endeavor. This build might have been radical or unusual a few years ago, but by now most players with any kind of experience are comfortable and happy to have a bard racking up kills instead of standing around watching the fray.

As for max songs, both builds have maxed songs -- this is one of the most important values I have for a near-pure bard.

I love Roq Star, but I have also played Classic Rocker and I know that the total list of pros and cons generally pushes people towards a 2HF model because of the extra give that the feats and ability points have helps if you are new to playing a bard or want a catch-all toon that can heal raids.

[The_Mud_Man]

I've one question about the build. Just what sort of difference would 2 fighter levels make? Just curious if it would improve dps but still retain it's healing and CC capabilities.

[Anthios888]

I've one question about the build. Just what sort of difference would 2 fighter levels make? Just curious if it would improve dps but still retain it's healing and CC capabilities.

It only improves DPS if you can add something like past life: paladin. Haste boost I is pretty cool, but I'd rather have the +1 hit/damage from being pure bard across the entire party.