ok so i'm squishy

[bartcom2000]

I am running a lvl 16 sorc and I kinda feel like I am a little more squishy than normal. what are my options in avoiding the enievitable 2 hit incap at endgame and in raids?

Other than the obvious.

I am sitting at about 144 hp natural and about 167 ish after items but before spells.

I have minos legens

+5 Con item

wearing +3 mithral chain shirt (Fearsome) AC ~ 24

Have one level of Alcarity

Do not have natural toughness feat or any of the enhancements.

Just starting shroud runs, so no green steel.

Things I know I can do:
get +6 item , am in process of this

Craft GS HP/SP item... well that will come in time, after i outfit my pali

I could get the toughness enhancement but the Nerf is so close i question why...

I use the following spells in-game:
false-Life
displacement
prot elements
resist elements
Blurr
Night shield
Fire/Cold Shield (scroll)
GH
Haste
Jump

I ussually keep 100 pot stacks of CSW

I try to remain cognisent of the fact that Damage spells = aggro.




The reason i bring this up is that i ran my first shoud the other night and I must have bit the dirt like 5 times across the whole raid and at the end one of the guys made the comment that I 'm a little sqishy and that i need to invest in a +6 con item, so cool.... the extra +1 will help but I am thinking I could be doing more. I will say that those **** flying swords got me a few times, freakin swords!

So enlighten me oh Theleanian sages, you xorian scum can chime in too if you must!! lol jj

[RavenBrother]

Stone Skin Baby Stone Skin....also your play style can affect your survivability a lot. Try not to out aggro everyone...insta kill or know how to avoid gettting hit.

[Sweyn]

144 hp is a little lwo IMO. My sorc is at ~230 (cant remember exact number) The +6 con and the hp will def. help. That would be 16 hp from con (if it brings you to an even number) and 45 from hp item. That gives you another 70 hp.. Could let you last another blow or too.

Another way to improve surviability is heal scrolls. (if you didnt put anyting into UMD you'll have 9.5 less UMD than highest possible.) My sorc is sitting at 38 UMD and has 90% on heal scrolls (only fail on a 2) Plus buying wands( 26 UMD?) is cheaper than pots. So when my hp is low i just back up and throw a heal for 132.. Very nice to have.
Another thing you could get is a greater false life item. (extra 30 hp) With all that you could be up to 245. (not too bad for a sorc IMO)

I have no trouble surving with 230 hp. After all, the twich of your finger could save you more than HP
So just knowing where the blades are going to be in the shroud and avoiding them, and knowing when to get out of the fray and toss a heal could greatly improve your survivalbilty.

[soloman]

When we were running the other day you told me you were carrying quicken as a feat. If I were you I would swap out quicken for a toughness feat and thatll give you 19 more hp and also open up 2 racial toughness enhancements. So you could be looking at 39 more hp from that alone mixed with getting proper con item should give you a total 54 more hp that what your carrying around atm. Good luck figurin it out bro, see u in game


Valintino/Snyper/Claymorr/Medie/Solobot/Miagi/Tahnke/Ghrunt all of Thelanis

[stockwizard5]

Toughness Feat
Racial Tougness I, II Enhancements (and maybe III, IV depending on race)
Greater False Life Item

CON +6 Item
CON +1, +2, +3 Tome

Greensteel HP Item (HP+10, SP+50, SP+100 1st item)
Greensteel HP Item (??, HP +15, HP +20 second item)

[bartcom2000]

Stone Skin Baby Stone Skin....also your play style can affect your survivability a lot. Try not to out aggro everyone...insta kill or know how to avoid gettting hit.

Yeah I do Like stone skin think i am gonna have to scroll that spell. it is DR10 right? but I was having issues with being one or two punched to the ground like a little girl.....

Now I hear ya about play style. Try to stay in back as much as possible, i insta- kill all i can and when I crowd controll i like the solid fog/acid fog/ disco ball/ fire wall Quad-fector or some such combination to achieve quick kills. I use fearsome in attempt to evade the second hit long enought o drink pots, and I try to stick close the the HP sugardaddy.

Now my most obvious imperfection is my lack of long term experience with the quests, so I do get suprised sometimes or find myself in a rather unfortunate proximity to the red name..lol but that will come in time.....

Thx for the post

[RavenBrother]

144 hp is a little lwo IMO. My sorc is at ~230 (cant remember exact number) The +6 con and the hp will def. help. That would be 16 hp from con (if it brings you to an even number) and 45 from hp item. That gives you another 70 hp.. Could let you last another blow or too.

Another way to improve surviability is heal scrolls. (if you didnt put anyting into UMD you'll have 9.5 less UMD than highest possible.) My sorc is sitting at 38 UMD and has 90% on heal scrolls (only fail on a 2) Plus buying wands( 26 UMD?) is cheaper than pots. So when my hp is low i just back up and throw a heal for 132.. Very nice to have.
Another thing you could get is a greater false life item. (extra 30 hp) With all that you could be up to 245. (not too bad for a sorc IMO)

I have no trouble surving with 230 hp. After all, the twich of your finger could save you more than HP
So just knowing where the blades are going to be in the shroud and avoiding them, and knowing when to get out of the fray and toss a heal could greatly improve your survivalbilty.

Um... you only fail on a 1 turbine got it wrong...you can't roll a "0" so your at 95% don't believe that stuff they display

[bartcom2000]

When we were running the other day you told me you were carrying quicken as a feat. If I were you I would swap out quicken for a toughness feat and thatll give you 19 more hp and also open up 2 racial toughness enhancements. So you could be looking at 39 more hp from that alone mixed with getting proper con item should give you a total 54 more hp that what your carrying around atm. Good luck figurin it out bro, see u in game


Valintino/Snyper/Claymorr/Medie/Solobot/Miagi/Tahnke/Ghrunt all of Thelanis

Yeah man you were rockin the othernight on valintino... superb caster. I guess I could drop the quicken but then I would have to respect for concentration and have the additional point spend on the racila toughness. man that might work but i am a quicken junkie I love it. I can throw out a AOE trifector in just under 4 seconds with no chance of it being interupted!!! thats like haste for sorcs!!! but it seems to work for you so mehh might have to make the switch

thx

[KingOfCheese]

I created a thread that discusses the hp issue with Sorcs.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=176040

If you read through this, you will see a number of very helpful comments from the community about items to wear, tactics to use, and the like. It also provides some build guidance for the next Sorc you might make in the future.

For the Shroud:
Part 1: Sorcs usually hunt mobs around the portals. If you have high DCs (and high spell pen), your finger of death should hit almost every time (consider taking all spell pen options if you don't have them). If not, move around a lot while you are firing at the bad guys and you will avoid most damage. Consider carrying enervate as a spell (or, if you can afford it, on scolls) to make your insta-kill spells hit better. For the orthons or devils, a single enervate or two followed by a finger should do the trick. Don't grab any agro on the opening fight. Maybe some crowd control at most (a heightened web works well).

Part 2: With a low hp sorc, don't grab any agro. Use crowd control to help the melees (heightened web is a great option). If you are getting random agro from teleporting devils, use diplomacy to shake it--if you have this skill.

Part 3: Be careful to avoid the blades and avoid the runes on the floor. People are expected to run water to the rooms--but consider not running water as the blades might do you in.

Part 4: Don't grab agro on the trash mobs. Crowd control only. Use diplo if you pick up a devil agro (or just run it to the melees if you don't have diplo). Buffs can make you nearly immortal against the pit fiend. Carry cold shield (and always keep it up), get fire resist (buff yourself, get buff from another, or wear item), carry fire protect and put it in your hot bar. With those three up, a meteor swarm will do essentially no damage to you. As soon as you are hit (watch your protect spell icon), spam protect on yourself again--he can't hurt you. Stay away from the blades. With tactics, you should be untouchable in part 4 except in the rarest instance when you get hit with multiple, near-simultaneous meteor swarms (stay moving to reduce this risk).

Part 5: don't get any agro on the 4 red-names. Just buff people and let the melees take these down. Same tactics as part 4 on the pit fiend.

As you get your hit points up, you will find you can be more aggressive. A high hp sorc with self-healing capability (reconstruct or heal scrolls) can take on anything in the shroud, with practice.

[bartcom2000]

144 hp is a little lwo IMO. My sorc is at ~230 (cant remember exact number) The +6 con and the hp will def. help. That would be 16 hp from con (if it brings you to an even number) and 45 from hp item. That gives you another 70 hp.. Could let you last another blow or too.

Another way to improve surviability is heal scrolls. (if you didnt put anyting into UMD you'll have 9.5 less UMD than highest possible.) My sorc is sitting at 38 UMD and has 90% on heal scrolls (only fail on a 2) Plus buying wands( 26 UMD?) is cheaper than pots. So when my hp is low i just back up and throw a heal for 132.. Very nice to have.
Another thing you could get is a greater false life item. (extra 30 hp) With all that you could be up to 245. (not too bad for a sorc IMO)

I have no trouble surving with 230 hp. After all, the twich of your finger could save you more than HP
So just knowing where the blades are going to be in the shroud and avoiding them, and knowing when to get out of the fray and toss a heal could greatly improve your survivalbilty.

You know I totally sc**ed up my skill point assignments from level 1 - 11. I was stupid, since i was a sorc and I saw N/A in my umd stat i thought casters were already spec's for UMD. besides the obvious lack of understanding of UMD idid not start putting points into it until like lvl 11 so i cant use ****. All of my point go into it now though so may at lvl 24 , 3 years from now i will have a decent UMD....lol

thx

[bartcom2000]

I created a thread that discusses the hp issue with Sorcs.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=176040

If you read through this, you will see a number of very helpful comments from the community about items to wear, tactics to use, and the like. It also provides some build guidance for the next Sorc you might make in the future.

For the Shroud:
Part 1: Sorcs usually hunt mobs around the portals. If you have high DCs (and high spell pen), your finger of death should hit almost every time (consider taking all spell pen options if you don't have them). If not, move around a lot while you are firing at the bad guys and you will avoid most damage. Consider carrying enervate as a spell (or, if you can afford it, on scolls) to make your insta-kill spells hit better. For the orthons or devils, a single enervate or two followed by a finger should do the trick. Don't grab any agro on the opening fight. Maybe some crowd control at most (a heightened web works well).

Part 2: With a low hp sorc, don't grab any agro. Use crowd control to help the melees (heightened web is a great option). If you are getting random agro from teleporting devils, use diplomacy to shake it--if you have this skill.

Part 3: Be careful to avoid the blades and avoid the runes on the floor. People are expected to run water to the rooms--but consider not running water as the blades might do you in.

Part 4: Don't grab agro on the trash mobs. Crowd control only. Use diplo if you pick up a devil agro (or just run it to the melees if you don't have diplo). Buffs can make you nearly immortal against the pit fiend. Carry cold shield (and always keep it up), get fire resist (buff yourself, get buff from another, or wear item), carry fire protect and put it in your hot bar. With those three up, a meteor swarm will do essentially no damage to you. As soon as you are hit (watch your protect spell icon), spam protect on yourself again--he can't hurt you. Stay away from the blades. With tactics, you should be untouchable in part 4 except in the rarest instance when you get hit with multiple, near-simultaneous meteor swarms (stay moving to reduce this risk).

Part 5: don't get any agro on the 4 red-names. Just buff people and let the melees take these down. Same tactics as part 4 on the pit fiend.

As you get your hit points up, you will find you can be more aggressive. A high hp sorc with self-healing capability (reconstruct or heal scrolls) can take on anything in the shroud, with practice.

Hey I ran some Xorian Cypher loot runs with you the other day on my pali Kindread. that was the run that the Ozzy dude pulled a gird, reaver ring and the other nice loot item all in 3 runs... I did manage to pull som +2 MFP lvl2 that my cleric loves..

Thx for the advice and it was nice playin wit ya!!!!

[Rilen]

144 standing with the items described right? prolly:

20 base
10 gianhold favor @150
64 sorc L16
32 CON (means you have a 14 CON & this is low)
18 minos
144

IMHO, what everyone else posted here already represents your options: CON tomes, CON 6 item, Greater False Life, swap out quicken for toughness and pursue the Racial Tough I,II line (or more if you can fit the AP in and are dorf or WF).

If you did all the above and also boosted your CON by 6 pts (1 from CON6 item + 3 from tome, 2 from shroud - or 2 from tome and 3 from shroud <- see note below after calcs) you'd probably be looking at:

20 base
10 draconic
64 sorc
32 (your existing CON)
18 minos
18 toughness feat respec
30 GFL
48 (bumped your CON from 14 to 20 -- 6 points, 3 even ranks up)
20 racial tough I,II (assume you cant get III, IV or dont have the pts to spend)
45 shroud
305

Would like to add:
- you can also get exceptional CON (stacks with regular CON items) on Shroud items. +1, +2 or +3 depending on what you craft. There are exceptional stats available on Dragontouched armor as well.

- see if you can find a way to fit the Rage spell into your spell list. I'd imagine you have extend, so you'll get a nice duration per cast, +18 hp.

- no one said it, and I mean this politely .. consider re-roll or build another toon with max CHA and CON and see what you think.. I would highly recommend maxing UMD .. Heal scrolls will save sorc bacon and often, others too.

- you might think you like Quicken, but I bet you'd enjoy having increased Spell Pen, HP or additional SP even more. assume you realize it doesnt shorten the cooldown of your last cast .. I just cant see real situations where a sorc's innate cast time and some decent twitch wouldnt allow for you to get spells off w/o Quicken .. perhaps this is where changing your aggro mgmt comes in to play. Never ran w/ ya - tough to say.

Feat respec is cheap .. if you need a dragonshard to try something other than quicken, PM me and I'll mail you one.

anyway - good luck to you.
Rils

[Sweyn]

144 standing with the items described right? prolly:

20 base
10 gianhold favor @150
64 sorc L16
32 CON (means you have a 14 CON & this is low)
18 minos
144

IMHO, what everyone else posted here already represents your options: CON tomes,
CON 6 item, Greater False Life, swap out quicken for toughness and pursue the Racial Tough I,II line (or more if you can fit the AP in and are dorf or WF).

Would like to add:
- no one said it, and I mean this politely .. consider re-roll or build another toon with
max CHA and CON and see what you think..
- you can also get exceptional CON (stacks with regular CON items) on Shroud items. +1, +2 or +3 depending on what you craft. There are exceptional stats available on Dragontouched armor as well.
- you might think you like Quicken, but I bet you'd enjoy having increased Spell Pen, HP or additional SP even more. assume you realize it doesnt shorten the cooldown of your last cast .. I just cant see real situations where a sorc's innate cast time and some decent twitch
wouldnt allow for you to get spells off w/o Quicken .. or where, if you are interrupted, it
means certain doom (unless you've been managing your aggro poorly) :-)
Feat respec is cheap .. if you need a dragonshard to try something other than quicken,
PM me and I'll mail you one.

anyway - good luck to you.
Rils

Yes, reroll wouldnt be bad.. more hp AND.. UMD!!

Um... you only fail on a 1 turbine got it wrong...you can't roll a "0" so your at 95% don't believe that stuff they display

yeah i thought about this for a while.. as if i rolled a 2 (2+38=40) DUH!! so i guess i fail on a 1 and not 2 lol.. I just didnt know if turbine made you get the 3 or something.. idk what i was talking about haha

[KingOfCheese]

If you have the time and energy and expect to play a Sorc a lot, I think it will be worth the investment to re-roll or roll a 2nd sorc (higher hp and UMD add a tremendous value).

However, with the gear people mentioned, and with practice with tactics, you can be highly functional with the build you have. It really depends on your time and interests.

I took a lower hp sorc to cap as my main (he is the one I first achieved 1750 favor with). I loved playing him and expected to have him be my main forever. He did not have high UMD and did not have high hp. For kicks, I rolled a new sorc that had high UMD and high hp. I almost never play my earlier sorc now--even with the huge time investment I made in him. The new one is so much more survivable and useful to the groups I am in--and so much more fun to play.

[Sweyn]

Yeah. if your happy with your current one, it can still be good and survivalable (cant seem to ever spell that word right) with all the items you could have a decent hp, and learning to stay outta the fray you would almost never die. You just wouldnt have umd.

But UMD can go along way. Once or twice i did a run with no cleric and a full party. I thought it would go pretty smooth but it didnt, i ended up clericing on my sorc with heal/rez/mass cure wounds scrolls. Was a chalange but was really fun... Wasn't nearly as good as a cleric but it helped.

[Lorichie]

My first caster was a drow wizzie looooong time ago, back when you could start with ten con and you were ok. At level 14, fully loaded i remember he was only at 138 i think. I hated every minute of playing him, and admittedly i was still fairly new so my twitch skills and knowledge arent what they are today, but i did and still would kill him off in a blink of an eye.

I re-rolled him and made him a her, and also a sorc. Now at cap and almost fully geared out she sits at 286 hp. A plus three con tome would get her to 302 and shroud item would make it 347. Obviously i'm much happier with her, i make it a rule that all my toons must have 350 ish min or they get the whack hammer. This is just personal preference. Could i play with less? Absolutely, but i like having the buffer, as long as it's not at the expense of a critical must have.

Fwiw,

R

[Boldrin]

My sorc sits at 335. 144 is just... well... squishy.. You need a greater false life and take a toughness feat for some extra hp. Eventually a +6 con item, a +2 con tome, and GS hitpoint item and you're looking at 250ish

[bartcom2000]

144 standing with the items described right? prolly:

20 base
10 gianhold favor @150
64 sorc L16
32 CON (means you have a 14 CON & this is low)
18 minos
144

IMHO, what everyone else posted here already represents your options: CON tomes, CON 6 item, Greater False Life, swap out quicken for toughness and pursue the Racial Tough I,II line (or more if you can fit the AP in and are dorf or WF).

If you did all the above and also boosted your CON by 6 pts (1 from CON6 item + 3 from tome, 2 from shroud - or 2 from tome and 3 from shroud <- see note below after calcs) you'd probably be looking at:

20 base
10 draconic
64 sorc
32 (your existing CON)
18 minos
18 toughness feat respec
30 GFL
48 (bumped your CON from 14 to 20 -- 6 points, 3 even ranks up)
20 racial tough I,II (assume you cant get III, IV or dont have the pts to spend)
45 shroud
305

Would like to add:
- you can also get exceptional CON (stacks with regular CON items) on Shroud items. +1, +2 or +3 depending on what you craft. There are exceptional stats available on Dragontouched armor as well.

- no one said it, and I mean this politely .. consider re-roll or build another toon with max CHA and CON and see what you think.. I would highly recommend maxing UMD .. Heal scrolls will save sorc bacon and often, others too.

- you might think you like Quicken, but I bet you'd enjoy having increased Spell Pen, HP or additional SP even more. assume you realize it doesnt shorten the cooldown of your last cast .. I just cant see real situations where a sorc's innate cast time and some decent twitch wouldnt allow for you to get spells off w/o Quicken .. perhaps this is where changing your aggro mgmt comes in to play. Never ran w/ ya - tough to say.

Feat respec is cheap .. if you need a dragonshard to try something other than quicken, PM me and I'll mail you one.

anyway - good luck to you.
Rils

good observations, i did forgrt to mention that i do have the 10 hp favor increase.

I also do have max spell pen enhancement (spell Pen III or IV? + highest spell pen sceptor) too and maxed in fire ice specs (not really pertinate). My CHA is at 35 (2230 sp before GS items) with only +2 tome so i think I am good there. not really worth it to me to re-roll until I hit 1750. I am at like 1200 ish atm. I am totally not against exchanging quicken for toughness. You are totally right about UMD lesson lernt there, but not much I can do about that until i raise up another toon. So all very good advice fro the community here!!! I will def look into it all

PS shoud and sorjek items i am working on, just have not ran them enough to craft anything yet and will probably focus on crafting out my pali first for DPS, then I will work with my uber sorc....thx


thx, so much

[Sweyn]

Just one more thing, you said your sp is at 2230 with no shroud item. That must mean you have mental and improve mental toughness. Both those give you 170 sp. IMO once you get shroud item its not worth it. I believe my sorc has 2360 and NO mental toughness feats. I barly find myself running out of mana (unless im in a nuking, dumping mood then its my fault and not lack of sp) If you like the extra sp by all means keep them, i just find that other feats would be more worth it. My sorc has

Maximize
Empower
Extend
Spell Pen.
Gtr Spell Pen.
Force of personality

I find my self rarly missing on spell pen. checks, and with a ~32 will save, your pretty much immune to hold and gtr. command. (unless you roll a 1) so i like that alot. Im not saying you should take htese feats, they are just what my preference is and for ME it would be hard to fit in 2 Mental toughnes feats

[Desteria]

Yeah I do Like stone skin think i am gonna have to scroll that spell. it is DR10 right? but I was having issues with being one or two punched to the ground like a little girl.....

Wands of SS are avalible in the 12 cheaper then scrolls

But mostly what others have said, Fist Biggest gain is GET a GFL item thats 30hp quick and dirty.

sswapign to toughness at least for NOW, untill you craft a 45 hp shroud item would be a big help as well, once you have that 45 hp from GS, then you could more easly aford to lose the toughness+AP Hp's though with your values you really could use both.