Human Paladin TWF Build

[DelScorcho]

I'm curious to know why more turn undeads would help this character. Do the clicky enhancements use turn undead for power? If so, would he typically go through more than 10 (which is what he'll have with a +6 charisma item) per shrine?

Turn Undeads are fuel for Divine Might. In some missions, you may burn through all of your turns between shrines.

[Gornn]

Well I was kind of hoping for perfect. The +2 dex tome is a good one. I'm not sure if he has one (or the money to buy one), but I should have asked before I posted. If he can get a +2 dex tome and +3 cha tome, the enhancements can always be modified later for more DPS..

It's worth waiting on the +2 dex. You can start the cha with a +1 (to get divine might 2) and wait for the +3 to come eventually...but seriously, the +2 dex is key for your build.

I'm curious to know why more turn undeads would help this character. Do the clicky enhancements use turn undead for power? If so, would he typically go through more than 10 (which is what he'll have with a +6 charisma item) per shrine?..

Probably not. My pally has 11 and I only rarely use them all. VOD is the one exception. I use a lot in there.

I also suppose I should have posted build intent. He's intended to be pure DPS. I only posted the AC because, with the right equipment, he could be a decent fill-in for the tank slot against Suul (and because that's really what sets him apart from a crit raged barbarian... aside from the slightly lower DPS).

I could also have spent his enhancements a little better for a solo aspect (like lay on hands), but I was thinking more for group assistance. Believe me, I was prepared not to max out his aura, but in the end it didn't hinder much and saves a group slot (thinking of mod 9 first completions here) by not requiring a defensive paladin. I was also thinking of multiclass ideas, but he prefers pure builds and with the upcoming capstone I felt this would still be a great character.

I also made the mistake of not adding in AoA favor to the calculations. Viola, survivable! Don't forget to account for the +10% incoming heals, either. They really help. I also may decide that Levik's bracers would be better than chaosguardes even while tanking after doing his full equipment loadout, so he'll be plenty survivable.

Leviks would prolly be better for your build, I'd think.

My Dwarf is really stuck for action points. I don't even have one aura. he's got maxed exalted smite and doesn't have DM 3 yet. are they facotred into your bild?

[Demoyn]

My Dwarf is really stuck for action points. I don't even have one aura. he's got maxed exalted smite and doesn't have DM 3 yet. are they facotred into your bild?

Everything in the original post is factored in, and nothing else is. If I'm able to take divine might II (he did have enough for a +2 dex, btw), then I'll probably drop one rank of save aura to grab it.

[Borror0]

I'll probably drop one rank of save aura to grab it.

Drop the AC aura over the save aura. The AC aura is pretty expensive and fewer will benefit from it.

In fact, I would consider drop all Bulwark of Good unless you've got nothing else to grab.

[Junts]

Are you serious? I have spent three years helping people with builds and provided (skipping the excel behind it) a brief summary of the rational. You on the other hand provided no useful information other than name calling.

I'm sure you get a big laugh when that casual player invests months of effort and then asks why he is limited and only then do you get some sick enjoyment telling him he's screwed becasue the build is fundamentaly flawed.

*shakes head* at the perversion of this community sometimes.

if -my- paladin has enough eq slots, this one does too .. trust me.

[stockwizard5]

if -my- paladin has enough eq slots, this one does too .. trust me.

Depends on your definition of "enough".

He does not have slots for all the items listed in the build and the other stuff mentioned or usual for DPS builds.

This is a typical case of trying to do too many things. Being moderate at many things does not work well in DDO (especially in raids). The current proposed build is a plethora of moderate and needs to focus more on what you are trying to do well.

If you want pure class (from earlier post) and the primary focus is DPS (also from an earlier post) then give up AC entirely (and all the slots you dedicated to it) and use them to increase your DPS and HP. Some items to consider are GS Weapon (CON +2), Madstone Boots, Scourge Choker, Bloodstone, Bloodrage, and Guard/Absorb/Resist+ Items (in particular those that increase survivability).

- More HP, Resist+, Absorb, and DR will improve Survivability
- Eliminating AC frees slots
- Multiple Rages will help mitigate (but not completely eliminate) the to-hit issue

Prepare to be an active combatant managing Spells, Rages, and Clickies

[BLITHELY]

Depends on your definition of "enough".

He does not have slots for all the items listed in the build and the other stuff mentioned or usual for DPS builds.

This is a typical case of trying to do too many things. Being moderate at many things does not work well in DDO (especially in raids). The current proposed build is a plethora of moderate and needs to focus more on what you are trying to do well.

If you want pure class (from earlier post) and the primary focus is DPS (also from an earlier post) then give up AC entirely (and all the slots you dedicated to it) and use them to increase you DPS and HP.

Hey now thats more like it u actually said something useful to the poster.

Even better after yr edit. A bit confused on yr thaco issue with the build though. Nice post.

[BLITHELY]

Are you serious? I have spent three years helping people with builds and provided (skipping the excel behind it) a brief summary of the rational. You on the other hand provided no useful information other than name calling.

I'm sure you get a big laugh when that casual player invests months of effort and then asks why he is limited and only then do you get some sick enjoyment telling him he's screwed becasue the build is fundamentaly flawed.

*shakes head* at the perversion of this community sometimes.

There is nothing wrong with the build. Suggestions 2 make it bettr were already posted. His choices as far as enhancments r his own. You on the other hand said nothing positive gave no suggestions. I was pointing this out. If u were "so concerned" u should have said more. U obviously were not neither am I. There r few gimp builds this 1 is definitely not 1. The play style and experience ultimately determine success or failure. I chock up yr posts and mine as useless fluff in this thread 2 be ignored.

This post references comments made previously 2 post 26. Happy now?

[stockwizard5]

Can anyone make sense of Posts 27 and 28?

You do realize you are talking about me in both of those - right?

[BLITHELY]

Can anyone make sense of Posts 27 and 28?

You do realize you are talking about me in both of those - right?

Of course; my brain maybe addled but I know who im talking 2. Jus responding 2 posts they r jus out of order.

[stockwizard5]

A bit confused on yr thaco issue with the build though. Nice post.

Low (or no) comparative pluses from Feats, Enh, Cap, PrC (except EO), and STR combined with -9 from PA, TWF, and Khopesh.

[Demoyn]

HP:
316 base
30 greater false life
18 minos legens
45 shroud item
48 con item
10 AoA favor
---
467 *with 10% incoming heals


AC:
10 base
15 dragontouched armor
9 tower shield (raid item one that gives proficiency - only used in boss tanking)
5 protection item
5 paladin aura
1 alchemical armor
1 alchemical shield
1 dex
4 insight
3 chattering ring
2 chaosguardes
---
46 (56 for boss tanking)

5 barkskin
2 recitation
4 inspire heroics
1 haste
---
58 (68 for boss tanking)

Trinket - Bloodstone
Helm - Minos Legens
Goggles - Greensteel Min II (+45 hp, protection +5)
Neck - Lorrik's Necklace (+6 wis, Wizardry VI)
Back - Charisma +6
Body - Dragontouched Fullplate
Wrist - Chaosguardes (or Levik's Bracers)
Waist - Belt of Brute Strength (or just greater false life if I decide on Levik's)
Ring - Constitution +6
Ring - Chattering Ring
Gloves -
Boots -
Weapon - Min II (insight +4)
Weapon - (Tower shield)

That's everything I've mentioned, and I've still left 2 slots (3 with weapon) to play around with. Then you can consider dragontouched enchants. If he gets a +6 charisma, constitution, or +4 insight AC it frees up another slot or two. There's more than enough item slots here to make this character work.

[Demoyn]

Low (or no) comparative pluses from Feats, Enh, Cap, PrC (except EO), and STR combined with -9 from PA, TWF, and Khopesh.

Yeah, but he'll still have a pretty high bonus.

[BLITHELY]

Low (or no) comparative pluses from Feats, Enh, Cap, PrC (except EO), and STR combined with -9 from PA, TWF, and Khopesh.

Meh. This more an argument against the class than the build. Still has a feat at 18 for otwf. Could use a light off hand weapon until then. Or could use scimi with otwf until 18 and then take khopesh since new mod is relatively close. That all being said while situational thaco is lower than other melee classes currently; it is sufficent and do not c this as a big issue. Now if the build had a only a 20 str vs the 28/30 it will have, i would agree.

[Demoyn]

Now if the build had a only a 20 str vs the 28/30 it will have, i would agree.

It will have a 30 minimum. It could theoretically increase with greensteel/dragontouched enhancements.

[BLITHELY]

I am assuming u r planning Kotc when new mod comes out only reason 2 go twf. Yr plan seems solid have fun with grinding that raid loot. I am sure u will enjoy the toon.

[Demoyn]

I am assuming u r planning Kotc when new mod comes out only reason 2 go twf. Yr plan seems solid have fun with grinding that raid loot. I am sure u will enjoy the toon.

Yes, once the vaporware known as mod 9 is released, his enhancements will be reworked to allow for KotC. KotC is FAR from the only reason to have a twf paladin, though. Also, farming raid loot is half the fun of the game!

[Asketes]

**CORRECTION**
I didn't realize demoyn wanted Knights of the Chalice. I didn't see him pick either KoTC OR Defender of Siberys. So I after seeing his original build, decided that Defender would help him more in the long run. You can disregard the following post unless you want to see where I went with Defender!

My suggestions and comments:

I am assuming you are going Defender of Siberys. In my opinion if you want to be a tank w/ acceptable DPS, this is what I would do

Here is the link to the Dev post on what Defender does and gives you

DPS:
You dps seems that it would be acceptable w/ a 30 str (+6 item)

not kill count leading, but if you are in dps mode you'll be able to do some damage with greater twf

Even without Power Attack you'll do just fine

Ability Points:

STR - 16 (+3 tome eaten whenever for a 18) Human Adaptability II
DEX - 15 (+2 tome eaten for a 17 - improved/greater twf)
CON - 14 (+2 tome)
INT - 11 (+2 tome eaten at lvl 1 for extra skill points AND combat expertise
WIS - 8
CHA - 13 (+1 tome Human Adaptability I)

This sets you up for +3 tomes later on on some of your stats and +4 tomes for the even numbered stats)

General Advice
Unfortunately people are in too much of a rush to do this, but my biggest advice would be to hold off on the tomes, build this toon up to lvl 5 and see how it is playing.. I usually do this at least once or twice before settling on a good build (i like to tweak and fine toon my characters. Hard to do at just lvl 5, but it gives a minor insight to what your toon may turn out to be like)

Skills:
This is in my opinion: I would lose concentration (you aren't a caster, but I don't know how pally's work too much so maybe I am wrong) You get 2 pts per lvl I ? (base of 2 per level for pallys)

-For first lvl put into jump and intimidate
-levels 2 and 3 put into jump and intimidate
-levels 4-20 max intimidate first, then put into balance and intimidate
-Your charisma will help intimidate very much so
-Defender of Siberys will give you extra Hate generation for anything you are unable to intimidate

Feats:
1. Toughness
1. Two Weapon Fighting
3. Combat Expertise
6. Improved Two Weapon Fighting
9. Exotic Weapon: kopesh
12. Imrproved Crit: Slashing
15. Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18. Unless something better comes out, think of Force of Personality (if you really think you need it) OR better yet oversized twf to help w/ your off hand atk bonus.


Enhancements:
I'm going to spend little time here, as I have very little pally experience

Take out human improved recovery, your levicks bracers offers so much more (they stack but you can use the AP elsewhere)

Versatility I is probably useless, if you got it up to Versatility III, then it gets to be a little better for what you spend. IV and V are a bit pricey though.

You will have to be stingy on what enhancements you take due to Defender taking quite a few of your AP. Take what you need for DPS and then for AC/Saves etc.

Take the required enhancements of Defender of Siberys


AC:

I reworked your AC, Assuming you are going Defender of Siberys

Normally i don't count stuff that is uberly rare raid loot, just me though.
-Chattering ring is uberly rare
-Only things i really count on is Levik's set. (i'll add leviks part 3, Dragon touched for AC purposes though, that is a tough one to get mind you)

DPS MODE:
10 base
15 dragontouched armor
2 Dex bonus to AC (Defender allows an extra 1 dex to AC)
1 Alchemical Eldritch Ritual (+1 dodge bonus to amor AC)
3 Leviks Two part set (bracers and dragon touched, insight bonus)
5 Combat Expertise (Situational)
5 protection item
5 paladin aura
3 chattering ring
---
49

Tanking:

start with: 52
9 tower shield (Leviks Defender, you're tanking, after DPS mode for a few seconds to draw good aggo switch to this, you'll lose ATK bonus, but after you have aggro it's not a huge deal)
1 Alchemical Eldritch Ritual (+1 dodge bonus to shield AC)
3 Defender stance, Dodge (Situational)
2 insight Leviks set (2 more for having all 3 parts)
---
67

With Buffs:
this is for 3:15 minutes

1 Haste (dodge)
2 Recitation (luck)
5 Barkskin (natural, and situational based on ranger presence)
4 Inspire Heroics
---
79


I think my math is correct. Borro0 and Aranticus will correct me if I'm wrong. They've taught me a lot

[Aranticus]

Are you serious? I have spent three years helping people with builds and provided (skipping the excel behind it) a brief summary of the rational. You on the other hand provided no useful information other than name calling.

I'm sure you get a big laugh when that casual player invests months of effort and then asks why he is limited and only then do you get some sick enjoyment telling him he's screwed becasue the build is fundamentaly flawed.

*shakes head* at the perversion of this community sometimes.

like i have not done so? oh wait.... i'm a hall of famer and have 3 stickied threads, does that make my words weigh more?

what they are saying is justify the nonsense you spout

[Aranticus]

Depends on your definition of "enough".

He does not have slots for all the items listed in the build and the other stuff mentioned or usual for DPS builds.

This is a typical case of trying to do too many things. Being moderate at many things does not work well in DDO (especially in raids). The current proposed build is a plethora of moderate and needs to focus more on what you are trying to do well.

If you want pure class (from earlier post) and the primary focus is DPS (also from an earlier post) then give up AC entirely (and all the slots you dedicated to it) and use them to increase your DPS and HP. Some items to consider are GS Weapon (CON +2), Madstone Boots, Scourge Choker, Bloodstone, Bloodrage, and Guard/Absorb/Resist+ Items (in particular those that increase survivability).

- More HP, Resist+, Absorb, and DR will improve Survivability
- Eliminating AC frees slots
- Multiple Rages will help mitigate (but not completely eliminate) the to-hit issue

Prepare to be an active combatant managing Spells, Rages, and Clickies

a paladin's power typically used to come from spells. now some are enhancement based. madstone and blood rages prevent spell casting which means the pally will be unable to cast divine favor (+3 damage +3 attack), zeal (+10% attack speed, stackable with haste) and angelskin (5DR against evil)

the OP is intending DT armor which means he can combine 4 items into 1 (1 armor + 3 effects). this frees up alot of slots. a paladin also have several immunities and again translate into less slots

ps: scourge choker gives bloodrage.... at least know what you are sayin before posting
pss: it can be difficult to maintain max bloodrage. when the cooldown begins, the fatigue (-50% attack speed) is actually more detrimental