Human Paladin TWF Build

[Demoyn]

This is a build for a friend. If you have any suggestions feel free to post them, but the stats will be locked in later today (so if you have a stat problem post fast).

Edit: This is the build after accounting for a +2 dex tome. I also may add more skills if he chooses to spend a +2 int tome (apparently he's got plenty of supplies).

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Lawful Good Human Male
(16 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 316
Spell Points: 150 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 17
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             15                    20

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 16
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               5                    12.5
Bluff                 2                     5
Concentration         6                    21
Diplomacy             2                     5
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     5
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate            2                     5
Jump                  3                     7
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Divine Might I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV

HP:
316 base
30 greater false life
18 minos legens
45 shroud item
48 con item
10 AoA favor
---
467 *with 10% incoming heals


AC:
10 base
15 dragontouched armor
9 tower shield (raid item one that gives proficiency - only used in boss tanking)
5 protection item
5 paladin aura
1 alchemical armor
1 alchemical shield
1 dex
4 insight
3 chattering ring
2 chaosguardes
---
46 (56 for boss tanking)

5 barkskin
2 recitation
4 inspire heroics
1 haste
---
58 (68 for boss tanking)

[Borror0]

If a +2 dex tome can be used ,reduce dex to 15 and increase the Wisdom to 10 or Cha to 15. Other than that, all seems fine.

PS: Don't have better ways to spend your APs than Exalted Smite Evil III, Charisma II and Bulwark of Good? You lack Divine Might II, Extra Lay on Hands II and have no Extra Turning ranks, at all. These would all be better ways to spend your APs. Especially DM II.

[stockwizard5]

1. 54 AC + 457 HP + No Evasion = Not Survivable
2. Low Attack Bonus = Reduced DPS
3. Not enough slots to fit all the items

More gear/tomes improves this slightly but not enough to be effective - I am not happy about this at all

[Thrudh]

54 AC + 457 HP + No Evasion = Not Survivable

Hmmm... curious where you came up with this conclusion

[Do'Urden]

Thrudh...the post you're referencing confused me so much I couldn't even get started on a response....

[DelScorcho]

On a twf pally, I'd personally rather take two rogue for evasion, UMD, and intimidate or 2 monk for evasion and the feats. However, as a straight class, the attributes seem solid. You can drop dex by one and place it into con if you want to gamble on the presence of +4 tomes in the next mod (as you'll probably be using GHA-con for the extra toughness enhancement).

[stockwizard5]

Hmmm... curious where you came up with this conclusion

Typical Target = Harry on Normal (there are many more challenging)

Those numbers survive on average ~ 5 attacks (all types).

I rate this as "Not Survivable".

[Aranticus]

Typical Target = Harry on Normal (there are many more challenging)

Those numbers survive on average ~ 5 attacks (all types).

I rate this as "Not Survivable".

i didnt know ddo has a requirement for surviving 5 attacks from harry without healing....

[stockwizard5]

perhaps you only do shroud on elite... but hey my 450 hp fighter did fine in shroud elite. seems to me your perfect shroud run have 9 exploiters, 2 clerics and 1 bard

What you said here has no basis in anything I posted - I never mentioned Shroud Elite, your Fighter, or party construction.

[Aranticus]

What you said here has no basis in anything I posted - I never mentioned Shroud Elite, your Fighter, or party construction.

Many builds are survivable ...

Melee builds with Low AC, Low HP, No Evasion, and No DR are not.

Typical Target = Harry on Normal (there are many more challenging)

Those numbers survive on average ~ 5 attacks (all types).

I rate this as "Not Survivable".

and these have basis?

[doppleganger]

1. 54 AC + 457 HP + No Evasion = Not Survivable
2. Low Attack Bonus = Reduced DPS
3. Not enough slots to fit all the items

More gear/tomes improves this slightly but not enough to be effective - I am not happy about this at all

hu... Not a lot of builds are survivable then! We might as well all be either splash rogues, or high AC low DPS fighters, or the best of all, rangers.

[stockwizard5]

hu... Not a lot of builds are survivable then! We might as well all be either splash rogues, or high AC low DPS fighters, or the best of all, rangers.

Many builds are survivable ...

Melee builds with Low AC, Low HP, No Evasion, and No DR are not.

[Asketes]

**CORRECTION**
I didn't realize demoyn wanted Knights of the Chalice. I didn't see him pick either KoTC OR Defender of Siberys. So I after seeing his original build, decided that Defender would help him more in the long run. You can disregard the following post unless you want to see where I went with Defender!

My suggestions and comments:

I am assuming you are going Defender of Siberys. In my opinion if you want to be a tank w/ acceptable DPS, this is what I would do

Here is the link to the Dev post on what Defender does and gives you

DPS:
You dps seems that it would be acceptable w/ a 30 str (+6 item)

not kill count leading, but if you are in dps mode you'll be able to do some damage with greater twf

Even without Power Attack you'll do just fine

Ability Points:

STR - 16 (+3 tome eaten whenever for a 18) Human Adaptability II
DEX - 15 (+2 tome eaten for a 17 - improved/greater twf)
CON - 14 (+2 tome)
INT - 11 (+2 tome eaten at lvl 1 for extra skill points AND combat expertise
WIS - 8
CHA - 13 (+1 tome Human Adaptability I)

This sets you up for +3 tomes later on on some of your stats and +4 tomes for the even numbered stats)

General Advice
Unfortunately people are in too much of a rush to do this, but my biggest advice would be to hold off on the tomes, build this toon up to lvl 5 and see how it is playing.. I usually do this at least once or twice before settling on a good build (i like to tweak and fine toon my characters. Hard to do at just lvl 5, but it gives a minor insight to what your toon may turn out to be like)

Skills:
This is in my opinion: I would lose concentration (you aren't a caster, but I don't know how pally's work too much so maybe I am wrong) You get 2 pts per lvl I ? (base of 2 per level for pallys)

-For first lvl put into jump and intimidate
-levels 2 and 3 put into jump and intimidate
-levels 4-20 max intimidate first, then put into balance and intimidate
-Your charisma will help intimidate very much so
-Defender of Siberys will give you extra Hate generation for anything you are unable to intimidate

Feats:
1. Toughness
1. Two Weapon Fighting
3. Combat Expertise
6. Improved Two Weapon Fighting
9. Exotic Weapon: kopesh
12. Imrproved Crit: Slashing
15. Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18. Unless something better comes out, think of Force of Personality (if you really think you need it) OR better yet oversized twf to help w/ your off hand atk bonus.


Enhancements:
I'm going to spend little time here, as I have very little pally experience

Take out human improved recovery, your levicks bracers offers so much more (they stack but you can use the AP elsewhere)

Versatility I is probably useless, if you got it up to Versatility III, then it gets to be a little better for what you spend. IV and V are a bit pricey though.

You will have to be stingy on what enhancements you take due to Defender taking quite a few of your AP. Take what you need for DPS and then for AC/Saves etc.

Take the required enhancements of Defender of Siberys


AC:

I reworked your AC, Assuming you are going Defender of Siberys

Normally i don't count stuff that is uberly rare raid loot, just me though.
-Chattering ring is uberly rare
-Only things i really count on is Levik's set. (i'll add leviks part 3, Dragon touched for AC purposes though, that is a tough one to get mind you)

DPS MODE:
10 base
15 dragontouched armor
2 Dex bonus to AC (Defender allows an extra 1 dex to AC)
1 Alchemical Eldritch Ritual (+1 dodge bonus to amor AC)
3 Leviks Two part set (bracers and dragon touched, insight bonus)
5 Combat Expertise (Situational)
5 protection item
5 paladin aura
3 chattering ring
---
49

Tanking:

start with: 52
9 tower shield (Leviks Defender, you're tanking, after DPS mode for a few seconds to draw good aggo switch to this, you'll lose ATK bonus, but after you have aggro it's not a huge deal)
1 Alchemical Eldritch Ritual (+1 dodge bonus to shield AC)
3 Defender stance, Dodge (Situational)
2 insight Leviks set (2 more for having all 3 parts)
---
67

With Buffs:
this is for 3:15 minutes

1 Haste (dodge)
2 Recitation (luck)
5 Barkskin (natural, and situational based on ranger presence)
4 Inspire Heroics
---
79


I think my math is correct. Borro0 and Aranticus will correct me if I'm wrong. They've taught me a lot

[Comfortably]

Many builds are survivable ...

Melee builds with Low AC, Low HP, No Evasion, and No DR are not.

Yes because 457 is such a low number of hp!

[BLITHELY]

1. 54 AC + 457 HP + No Evasion = Not Survivable
2. Low Attack Bonus = Reduced DPS
3. Not enough slots to fit all the items

More gear/tomes improves this slightly but not enough to be effective - I am not happy about this at all

I love jagoffs who post **** like this. No suggestion how they would do the build instead. Unexplainable opinions with no rationale. The poster goes on in l8r posts posting even more ridiculous comments. Ignore anything he says yr build is solid not perfect but then again perfection is in the eye of the beholder.

[stockwizard5]

I love jagoffs who post **** like this. No suggestion how they would do the build instead. Unexplainable opinions with no rationale. The poster goes on in l8r posts posting even more ridiculous comments. Ignore anything he says yr build is solid not perfect but then again perfection is in the eye of the beholder.

Are you serious? I have spent three years helping people with builds and provided (skipping the excel behind it) a brief summary of the rational. You on the other hand provided no useful information other than name calling.

I'm sure you get a big laugh when that casual player invests months of effort and then asks why he is limited and only then do you get some sick enjoyment telling him he's screwed becasue the build is fundamentaly flawed.

*shakes head* at the perversion of this community sometimes.

[Junts]

Are you serious? I have spent three years helping people with builds and provided (skipping the excel behind it) a brief summary of the rational. You on the other hand provided no useful information other than name calling.

I'm sure you get a big laugh when that casual player invests months of effort and then asks why he is limited and only then do you get some sick enjoyment telling him he's screwed becasue the build is fundamentaly flawed.

*shakes head* at the perversion of this community sometimes.

if -my- paladin has enough eq slots, this one does too .. trust me.

[BLITHELY]

Are you serious? I have spent three years helping people with builds and provided (skipping the excel behind it) a brief summary of the rational. You on the other hand provided no useful information other than name calling.

I'm sure you get a big laugh when that casual player invests months of effort and then asks why he is limited and only then do you get some sick enjoyment telling him he's screwed becasue the build is fundamentaly flawed.

*shakes head* at the perversion of this community sometimes.

There is nothing wrong with the build. Suggestions 2 make it bettr were already posted. His choices as far as enhancments r his own. You on the other hand said nothing positive gave no suggestions. I was pointing this out. If u were "so concerned" u should have said more. U obviously were not neither am I. There r few gimp builds this 1 is definitely not 1. The play style and experience ultimately determine success or failure. I chock up yr posts and mine as useless fluff in this thread 2 be ignored.

This post references comments made previously 2 post 26. Happy now?

[Aranticus]

Are you serious? I have spent three years helping people with builds and provided (skipping the excel behind it) a brief summary of the rational. You on the other hand provided no useful information other than name calling.

I'm sure you get a big laugh when that casual player invests months of effort and then asks why he is limited and only then do you get some sick enjoyment telling him he's screwed becasue the build is fundamentaly flawed.

*shakes head* at the perversion of this community sometimes.

like i have not done so? oh wait.... i'm a hall of famer and have 3 stickied threads, does that make my words weigh more?

what they are saying is justify the nonsense you spout

[Demoyn]

Well I was kind of hoping for perfect. The +2 dex tome is a good one. I'm not sure if he has one (or the money to buy one), but I should have asked before I posted. If he can get a +2 dex tome and +3 cha tome, the enhancements can always be modified later for more DPS.

I'm curious to know why more turn undeads would help this character. Do the clicky enhancements use turn undead for power? If so, would he typically go through more than 10 (which is what he'll have with a +6 charisma item) per shrine?

I also suppose I should have posted build intent. He's intended to be pure DPS. I only posted the AC because, with the right equipment, he could be a decent fill-in for the tank slot against Suul (and because that's really what sets him apart from a crit raged barbarian... aside from the slightly lower DPS).

I could also have spent his enhancements a little better for a solo aspect (like lay on hands), but I was thinking more for group assistance. Believe me, I was prepared not to max out his aura, but in the end it didn't hinder much and saves a group slot (thinking of mod 9 first completions here) by not requiring a defensive paladin. I was also thinking of multiclass ideas, but he prefers pure builds and with the upcoming capstone I felt this would still be a great character.

I also made the mistake of not adding in AoA favor to the calculations. Viola, survivable! Don't forget to account for the +10% incoming heals, either. They really help. I also may decide that Levik's bracers would be better than chaosguardes even while tanking after doing his full equipment loadout, so he'll be plenty survivable.

Edit: A guildy of mine also mentioned that it may be wise to go with scimitars for the higher crit range (For use with smites) and use the feat slot for oversized two-weapon fighting. What are the thoughts on that?