Human Paladin TWF Build

[Demoyn]

This is a build for a friend. If you have any suggestions feel free to post them, but the stats will be locked in later today (so if you have a stat problem post fast).

Edit: This is the build after accounting for a +2 dex tome. I also may add more skills if he chooses to spend a +2 int tome (apparently he's got plenty of supplies).

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
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Level 16 Lawful Good Human Male
(16 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 316
Spell Points: 150 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 17
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             15                    20

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 16
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               5                    12.5
Bluff                 2                     5
Concentration         6                    21
Diplomacy             2                     5
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     5
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate            2                     5
Jump                  3                     7
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Divine Might I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV

HP:
316 base
30 greater false life
18 minos legens
45 shroud item
48 con item
10 AoA favor
---
467 *with 10% incoming heals


AC:
10 base
15 dragontouched armor
9 tower shield (raid item one that gives proficiency - only used in boss tanking)
5 protection item
5 paladin aura
1 alchemical armor
1 alchemical shield
1 dex
4 insight
3 chattering ring
2 chaosguardes
---
46 (56 for boss tanking)

5 barkskin
2 recitation
4 inspire heroics
1 haste
---
58 (68 for boss tanking)

[Borror0]

If a +2 dex tome can be used ,reduce dex to 15 and increase the Wisdom to 10 or Cha to 15. Other than that, all seems fine.

PS: Don't have better ways to spend your APs than Exalted Smite Evil III, Charisma II and Bulwark of Good? You lack Divine Might II, Extra Lay on Hands II and have no Extra Turning ranks, at all. These would all be better ways to spend your APs. Especially DM II.

[stockwizard5]

1. 54 AC + 457 HP + No Evasion = Not Survivable
2. Low Attack Bonus = Reduced DPS
3. Not enough slots to fit all the items

More gear/tomes improves this slightly but not enough to be effective - I am not happy about this at all

[MrCow]

You lack Divine Might III

That requires a base CHA of 18, right? (Something this build doesn't have)

[Borror0]

That requires a base CHA of 18, right? (Something this build doesn't have)

Meant DM II.

[Thrudh]

54 AC + 457 HP + No Evasion = Not Survivable

Hmmm... curious where you came up with this conclusion

[Do'Urden]

Thrudh...the post you're referencing confused me so much I couldn't even get started on a response....

[DelScorcho]

On a twf pally, I'd personally rather take two rogue for evasion, UMD, and intimidate or 2 monk for evasion and the feats. However, as a straight class, the attributes seem solid. You can drop dex by one and place it into con if you want to gamble on the presence of +4 tomes in the next mod (as you'll probably be using GHA-con for the extra toughness enhancement).

[doppleganger]

1. 54 AC + 457 HP + No Evasion = Not Survivable
2. Low Attack Bonus = Reduced DPS
3. Not enough slots to fit all the items

More gear/tomes improves this slightly but not enough to be effective - I am not happy about this at all

hu... Not a lot of builds are survivable then! We might as well all be either splash rogues, or high AC low DPS fighters, or the best of all, rangers.

[stockwizard5]

Hmmm... curious where you came up with this conclusion

Typical Target = Harry on Normal (there are many more challenging)

Those numbers survive on average ~ 5 attacks (all types).

I rate this as "Not Survivable".

[Aranticus]

Typical Target = Harry on Normal (there are many more challenging)

Those numbers survive on average ~ 5 attacks (all types).

I rate this as "Not Survivable".

i didnt know ddo has a requirement for surviving 5 attacks from harry without healing....

[stockwizard5]

hu... Not a lot of builds are survivable then! We might as well all be either splash rogues, or high AC low DPS fighters, or the best of all, rangers.

Many builds are survivable ...

Melee builds with Low AC, Low HP, No Evasion, and No DR are not.

[stockwizard5]

i didnt know ddo has a requirement for surviving 5 attacks from harry without healing....

It does not - nor does DDO have any "requirement" to be survivable. But as a reasonable and common end game target it is useful for comparison.

In this case the "Not Survivable" is only one of the factors. If this build had (for example) the games highest possible DPS it might be viable and not survivable at the same time. Thrudh asked why I considered it "Not survivable" which is what I was addressing. The combination of insufficient item slots, not survivable, and low DPS is difficult to make work.

This build also has a madstone casting clicky issue that limits its effectiveness but is rather difficult to quantify.

[Aranticus]

It does not - nor does DDO have any "requirement" to be survivable. But as a reasonable and common end game target it is useful for comparison.

perhaps you only do shroud on elite... but hey my 450 hp fighter did fine in shroud elite. seems to me your perfect shroud run have 9 exploiters, 2 clerics and 1 bard

[stockwizard5]

perhaps you only do shroud on elite... but hey my 450 hp fighter did fine in shroud elite. seems to me your perfect shroud run have 9 exploiters, 2 clerics and 1 bard

What you said here has no basis in anything I posted - I never mentioned Shroud Elite, your Fighter, or party construction.

[Aranticus]

What you said here has no basis in anything I posted - I never mentioned Shroud Elite, your Fighter, or party construction.

Many builds are survivable ...

Melee builds with Low AC, Low HP, No Evasion, and No DR are not.

Typical Target = Harry on Normal (there are many more challenging)

Those numbers survive on average ~ 5 attacks (all types).

I rate this as "Not Survivable".

and these have basis?

[Gornn]

I agree with the note about your stats.

16
15
14
8
8
15

Is the best array; a +2 tome in dex is a HUGE saving point build wise. This way you can get divine might with a +3 tome which will be common soon enough.

You will be surivable without evasion if you can get some firestorm greaves, ring of the djinn cloak of ice, etc. Assume you will only fail on a one...reduce the incoming damage you take and you'll be fine.

450 hp is enough with that stuff. Since you can cast your own resists and protects if you need them

[BLITHELY]

1. 54 AC + 457 HP + No Evasion = Not Survivable
2. Low Attack Bonus = Reduced DPS
3. Not enough slots to fit all the items

More gear/tomes improves this slightly but not enough to be effective - I am not happy about this at all

I love jagoffs who post **** like this. No suggestion how they would do the build instead. Unexplainable opinions with no rationale. The poster goes on in l8r posts posting even more ridiculous comments. Ignore anything he says yr build is solid not perfect but then again perfection is in the eye of the beholder.

[stockwizard5]

I love jagoffs who post **** like this. No suggestion how they would do the build instead. Unexplainable opinions with no rationale. The poster goes on in l8r posts posting even more ridiculous comments. Ignore anything he says yr build is solid not perfect but then again perfection is in the eye of the beholder.

Are you serious? I have spent three years helping people with builds and provided (skipping the excel behind it) a brief summary of the rational. You on the other hand provided no useful information other than name calling.

I'm sure you get a big laugh when that casual player invests months of effort and then asks why he is limited and only then do you get some sick enjoyment telling him he's screwed becasue the build is fundamentaly flawed.

*shakes head* at the perversion of this community sometimes.

[Demoyn]

Well I was kind of hoping for perfect. The +2 dex tome is a good one. I'm not sure if he has one (or the money to buy one), but I should have asked before I posted. If he can get a +2 dex tome and +3 cha tome, the enhancements can always be modified later for more DPS.

I'm curious to know why more turn undeads would help this character. Do the clicky enhancements use turn undead for power? If so, would he typically go through more than 10 (which is what he'll have with a +6 charisma item) per shrine?

I also suppose I should have posted build intent. He's intended to be pure DPS. I only posted the AC because, with the right equipment, he could be a decent fill-in for the tank slot against Suul (and because that's really what sets him apart from a crit raged barbarian... aside from the slightly lower DPS).

I could also have spent his enhancements a little better for a solo aspect (like lay on hands), but I was thinking more for group assistance. Believe me, I was prepared not to max out his aura, but in the end it didn't hinder much and saves a group slot (thinking of mod 9 first completions here) by not requiring a defensive paladin. I was also thinking of multiclass ideas, but he prefers pure builds and with the upcoming capstone I felt this would still be a great character.

I also made the mistake of not adding in AoA favor to the calculations. Viola, survivable! Don't forget to account for the +10% incoming heals, either. They really help. I also may decide that Levik's bracers would be better than chaosguardes even while tanking after doing his full equipment loadout, so he'll be plenty survivable.

Edit: A guildy of mine also mentioned that it may be wise to go with scimitars for the higher crit range (For use with smites) and use the feat slot for oversized two-weapon fighting. What are the thoughts on that?