PvP: Challenge Other Players!

[Oreg]

If this keeps new players in the game I am all for it. Some people out there like pvp. You forum vets don't, but I see this as a substantial improvement to the system and will be yet another thing that keeps new players around. Thumbs Up Developers and Turbine..

Ths implies that people left in the past because there was no pvp. People leave this game for a myriad of reasons, not one of which is lack of pvp. Solve the problems and keep the people you do have before you worry about attracting new players, for they too will leave if the problems aren't solved.

Any real businessman knows this...

[Borror0]

OK. Let me clarify. Money should be spent on NEW QUESTS.

New quests is old player player retention. Improvements like PvP is mostly new player retention and also (to a lesser extent) old player retention.

It would be unwise to only aim at keeping old players around and hope the current game is enough to attract new players. What you're asking Turbine to do is to stop making their game more competitive and only keep you interested. If a factory would do that, they would eventually go bankrupt because they would not be as productive as other factories.

[miceelf88]

If they don't fix the lag, they won't retain anyone, eventually. I also don't at all see how trying to be a second-rate WOW, instead of building on DDO's strengths is a good thing, but perhaps there's something about PvP that I'm missing.

[Oreg]

New quests is old player player retention. Improvements like PvP is mostly new player retention and also (to a lesser extent) old player retention.

It would be unwise to only aim at keeping old players around and hope the current game is enough to attract new players. What you're asking Turbine to do is to stop making their game more competitive and only keep you interested. If a factory would do that, they would eventually go bankrupt because they would not be as productive as other factories.

Sorry but I disagree. Limited PVP in the manner that it will be upgraded to will not be enough to attract new players nor keep them. Any pvp centirc player who would try DDO solely because of PVP will soon be dissatisfied with its limitations and leave. They are not changing the pvp mechanic just adding the challenge feature. So if DDO PVP ver. 1 didn't work, what makes you think adding a "challenge" feature will work? At best it will be a diversion to existing players and in a few months about as utilized as the current pvp system. (after all it is the same mechanic just with a different invitation system)

[SteeleTrueheart]

I PvP rarely and only as a time filler / guild fun thing. This impacts me not at all. But a new feature is a new feature and if someone interested in the game is also interested in PvP and this feature makes DDO just that little bit more appealing, then sure it was worth the effort.

I think the forumites would be more interested in other details like No. of Quests. New opponent races. Any crafting/named items. AKA what will we be grinding for and in over the next 6 months.

The little bits you are giving out / new features / concept art would really go well in say THIRD PARTY info release. Where is the online media for this game? An article would be happy to give specific info like this instead of giving quest details away which we know they wouldn't be able to give too much on a quest. But they could give out all the details to a new feature.

Nice addition, but will affect few.

[Borror0]

At best it will be a diversion to existing players

What's wrong with that if it required very little time?

[Hendrik]

OK. Let me clarify. Money should be spent on NEW QUESTS.

And it has. In addition to this and other features.

[Oreg]

What's wrong with that if it required very little time?

Absolutely nothing. Nor did I say there was anything wrong with it. I was stating that I did not agree that this improvement would lead to new player retention.

[Hendrik]

What's wrong with that if it required very little time?

Because Borror, many people here just think of themselves.

[gemini26]

I have yet to pvp in this game. D&D 3.5 in general wasn't made for pvp and there is a lot of imbalance between player classes against each other. No matter how skillful you are at playing class A, class B always has a significant advantage over you, just due to the mechanics. However I know there are a lot of people that do pvp and enjoy it a lot, and if this makes it easier for them then good.

Also, everyone is talking about wanting new quests... There's quests I haven't even seen yet on any of my chars. From level 2 stuff all the way up. There are already tons of quests to do, and people don't do them. I may see 50 different lfms up over the course of a play period, and they are all the same 10 (or less) quests. I'm all for new content, but there are lots of people that have probably never done half of the old content while they rush to the max level and then whine about being bored. And hey, if you are bored.. Try out the new pvp!

[Dark_Helmet]

Ths implies that people left in the past because there was no pvp. People leave this game for a myriad of reasons, not one of which is lack of pvp. Solve the problems and keep the people you do have before you worry about attracting new players, for they too will leave if the problems aren't solved.

Any real businessman knows this...

Actually, there were a couple of people who left because there was no PvP way back before it was added (gotta read all those goodbye threads a bit closer). It was few and far between, but I know people who went to Conan so they could play PvP (glad some of them left actually as they only whined about not being able to solo some adventures).

That said, Some DnD "old timers" (like me) have a problem with PvP because DnD is mainly a teamwork vs. the monsters quest (don't get me started about solo content ).

I believe one of the main problems that DDO "old timers" have with PvP was the rule changes that were made to accomodate the PvP and screwed the questers.

So, it isn't such a big deal - unless they make rule changes to accomodate the PvP crowd again!

[miceelf88]

HOnestly, if people are into PvP in a major way, they'll be playing a different game. There's no way for DDO to have enough PvP content to compete with PVP centric games or with even PVP friendly games. At least not while retaining the focus on team-based PvE stuff that is what drew me to DDO in the first place.

This, combined with the complete lack of update or movement on lag is just a real kick in the pants.

(sigh)

[adamkatt]

I sure all the players that do pvp wont give up their advantage of the tavern brawl and easy jump out technique.

[Bradik_Losdar]

You can't be in the same group to challenge the other person

Why not? They are the ones who annoy me the most!

[Yshkabibble]

Meh

[tihocan]

You can't be in the same group to challenge the other person

Ouch, you just removed pretty much the only hope of me using this system. I'd rather PvP with friends I know and can chat with (for instance while waiting for someone to fill up a group) than randomly click on people who cross my path in Stormreach.

[Riggs]

The max for the challenge system is currently 6 v 6

When pvp was first announced most people were very against it. As long as it was involuntary essentially.

This idea is actually really cool.

D&D is fundamentally a group game, with group tactics, and every class has strengths and weaknesses etc. One of the nastiest fights wasnt between a party and a monster generally, but between a party and a well played NPC party.

As a chessgame, the possibilities of a 3 on 3, or 6 on 6 battle are huge, and would be a lot of fun to play out.

Tavern pvp is lame, and any time a few ppl jump in to mess around trying to test something out, or beat on each other within like 1 minute a bunch of yahoos pile in and start backstabbing someone for kicks - which is why involuntary pvp is stupid and lame.

This idea will be a lot of fun. Props.

It would be nice to be able to have some kind of chat or voice set up as a 'supergroup', so that you can taunt and make fun of the other side while fighting other than having to send tells or general chat (which is going to get very messy when annoying people start using it to spam insults at each other).

[Angelus_dead]

Actually, there were a couple of people who left because there was no PvP way back

That is true.

However, the form of PvP that was added won't be enough to satisfy those people. In fact, one could almost call it false advertising: announce PvP so you can pull in players who enjoy that, hoping they won't unsubscribe instantly when they discover how lifeless the PvP gameplay is.

(For a view of the kind of design effort it takes to build real PvP gameplay, walk over to the LOTRO room and ask how the creep vs minstrel balance is turning out. For the amount of development LOTRO has put in, it still has serious problems. Even Warcraft has PvP popularity shortcomings)

[Angelus_dead]

Ouch, you just removed pretty much the only hope of me using this system. I'd rather PvP with friends I know and can chat with (for instance while waiting for someone to fill up a group)

That is true. Passing the time while waiting for a group to fill would have been the primary reason for PVP dueling.

[Big_Russ]

Sorry but I disagree. Limited PVP in the manner that it will be upgraded to will not be enough to attract new players nor keep them. Any pvp centirc player who would try DDO solely because of PVP will soon be dissatisfied with its limitations and leave. They are not changing the pvp mechanic just adding the challenge feature. So if DDO PVP ver. 1 didn't work, what makes you think adding a "challenge" feature will work? At best it will be a diversion to existing players and in a few months about as utilized as the current pvp system. (after all it is the same mechanic just with a different invitation system)

Bingo!