Shroud buffs

[Draccus]

I recently cleric'd my 5th Shroud and still have some questions on buffs.

What buffs are expected before parts 1, 2, and 4?

Why is there never any coordination between buffers as to who is buffing whom? I'm sure I'm buffing characters with buffs they already have. Too bad DDO's raid list is different for every person. If it were static, we could say "you buff the left column, I'll buff the right."

Shouldn't I be doing individual buffs BEFORE shrining? Resist, True Seeing, and Freedom seem like good pre-fight buffs but people never want to wait for them. They click the shrine and go.

Finally, what is with all the whining about how expensive it is to cleric a Shroud? I ran my last shroud with another cleric who just hit 15. Neither of us have any raid gear or Shroud items yet we finished part 5 with him at 25% sp and me at 50%. I might have used 4 scrolls to spot heal but obviously didn't need to. I've never used a pot in the Shroud.

Are the broke clerics using maximized, empowered, quickened 450+ hp heals on 300 hp characters?

[Boldrin]

You're doing fine, if they don't ask for buffs, don't give them. Most buffs are not necessary. People who say it's expensive to play a cleric.... don't know how to play one.

[Dktr]

when you're with a well outfitted and well organized group, there really should be little to no expense for a cleric to run the shroud. The expense comes when the tanks are using the wrong weapons, or the group leader is inexperienced, or you have group members that are inexperienced and won't listen. If any of the above circumstances occur, the shroud can quickly go from a smooth run to a highly resource intensive run with all the expense of others' poor play falling on the cleric.

[Logicman69]

Usually in Pt.1 I hit True Seeing on everyone, Then Mass buffs when the party in ready to go. I usually don't bother going back out for SP since people usually don't take much damage in PT.1 anyway (couple MCSW when we are portal beating takes care of most damage, w/ a couple spot heals).

I'll usually hit a Hero's Feast as we are all beating on the last portal then shrine. For Pt.2 and Pt.4 there really isn't much in the way of cleric buffs that people ask for(FOM in PT.2 if we have the Earth Elemental). I usually hit everyone with Stalwart Pact before Pt.4. It usually gives the person an extra buffer zone if they get in trouble and a cleric can't get to them quick enough (unless they are a squisy wizard who just took a Delayed Blast Fireball to the face... then your screwed).

I have noticed the Shroud being run more and more efficently as well. When I first started running it I was blowing through recorces left and right. But now I rarely use a pot. I still go through Heal scrolls, but that is cause I use them to spot Heal when It's not my round (conserving mana till it's my turn).

[Aranticus]

I recently cleric'd my 5th Shroud and still have some questions on buffs.

What buffs are expected before parts 1, 2, and 4?

Why is there never any coordination between buffers as to who is buffing whom? I'm sure I'm buffing characters with buffs they already have. Too bad DDO's raid list is different for every person. If it were static, we could say "you buff the left column, I'll buff the right."

Shouldn't I be doing individual buffs BEFORE shrining? Resist, True Seeing, and Freedom seem like good pre-fight buffs but people never want to wait for them. They click the shrine and go.

Finally, what is with all the whining about how expensive it is to cleric a Shroud? I ran my last shroud with another cleric who just hit 15. Neither of us have any raid gear or Shroud items yet we finished part 5 with him at 25% sp and me at 50%. I might have used 4 scrolls to spot heal but obviously didn't need to. I've never used a pot in the Shroud.

Are the broke clerics using maximized, empowered, quickened 450+ hp heals on 300 hp characters?

part 1 true see, poison, prayer, acid, fire

part 2 prayer, fire, sonic, dw and sr (if kobold and gnoll)

part 4 fire, poison, sonic, prayer

part 5 fire, poison, prayer

all part prot is swell

[Thrudh]

Part 1 - True-seeing and Neutralize Posion. You can cast those and go - no need to go back outside and get your SP back. Cast Prayer at the portals (+1 damage)

Part 2 - No real reason to cast anything - no trogs, so no need for posion or true-seeing... If you get the fire elemental, cast fire resist, if you get the earth ele, cast freedom, if you get the gnoll, cast Spell Resistance, if you get the kobold, cast mass death ward. (He has a vorpal)

Part 3 - no spells

Part 4 - Posion, fire resist, fire protect (mass protection). Prayer again (non-extended)

Part 5 - same as 4

[Soul-Shaker]

Buffs depends on groups you play with.

In average pug its generally
P1: TS, prayer, 1 cast mass prot(shouldnt need more or caster mobs are lasting to long), and poison(**** lazy self buffers, use pots).
P2: FoM to the evasion melee dps or caster killing earth ele. If fire then fire resist evasion melee dps and on bard healing the melee. mass DW if you have a kobald. Prayer and recitation b4 the general fights.
P4: Fire resist/prot, poison/heroes feast, prayer, recitation.

Most groups go overboard on buffs. And there are to many lazy self buffers. I prefer runs with experienced ppl where all parts only prayer, recitation are the only things you cast regardless, and p4/5 fire resist/prot. Everything else is by single requests on the fly. TS in p1 usually not required if melee on portals and caster kills mobs quick. Only a few should ask for neu poison since theres items, clickies, and pots. P2 sonic helps but orthon bolts shouldnt last that long, and FoM or fire resist is only required on person(s) taking elemental.

[Monkey_Archer]

part 1 true see, poison, prayer, acid, fire

part 2 prayer, fire, sonic, dw and sr (if kobold and gnoll)

part 4 fire, poison, sonic, prayer

part 5 fire, poison, prayer

all part prot is swell

All thats really needed is:
Part 1 - True seeing
Part 4,5 - Fire resist, poison (or heroes feast)

All the other stuff is good to have though

[Voalkrynn2]

People who say it's expensive to play a cleric.... don't know how to play one.

People that say clerics are expensive have run into players or parties that have an AC rating of soggy newspaper, that don't carry the proper weapons, that don't carry poison/disease immunity gear, that don't carry a few basic pots, that bite off more than they can chew, etc.

[Impaqt]

I generally only Buff by request. Most buffs required in the shround are available on items as well.

I can dispell the Displacement on Portals so no need for TS on everyone.

I'll throw out some buffs after part 3 before I shrine. WHatever I got....

[Boldrin]

People that say clerics are expensive have run into players or parties that have an AC rating of soggy newspaper, that don't carry the proper weapons, that don't carry poison/disease immunity gear, that don't carry a few basic pots, that bite off more than they can chew, etc.

Let the dead weight die, heal the survivors

[Thrudh]

People that say clerics are expensive have run into players or parties that have an AC rating of soggy newspaper, that don't carry the proper weapons, that don't carry poison/disease immunity gear, that don't carry a few basic pots, that bite off more than they can chew, etc.

You choose what you spend... Cheaper to wipe (and the bad players might learn something) than to spend pots and scrolls salvaging a bad group...

If I'm running with bad players... once I get low on SP, I'll tell them, "Guys I only have 1 cure serious wand left (or 30 heal scrolls at higher level)... We got to play more careful"

70% of the time, the players will actually change their play-style and we'll make it to the next shrine without me having to spend my resources...

20% of the time, they'll hand me wands/scrolls, and then they'll continue their zerg-like bad playing (which is fine, since they are now funding their own bad play)

10% of the time, they continue with the bad play, hand me nothing... and we end up wiping... but I didn't waste a bunch of money.

I'll take the exp hit by re-entering rather than waste a lot of gold...


Now... if I'm with a GOOD group, and it's a tough quest, and we've had some bad luck... I'll use the resources... I save SP pots for occasions like that... I've never had to buy a SP pot... I'll pull them in, one by one over a couple of weeks, then have to use 3-4 in a laggy Shroud run where half the team died in Part 4... That's okay...

[Voalkrynn2]

You choose what you spend... Cheaper to wipe (and the bad players might learn something) than to spend pots and scrolls salvaging a bad group...

If I'm running with bad players... once I get low on SP, I'll tell them, "Guys I only have 1 cure serious wand left (or 30 heal scrolls at higher level)... We got to play more careful"

70% of the time, the players will actually change their play-style and we'll make it to the next shrine without me having to spend my resources...

20% of the time, they'll hand me wands/scrolls, and then they'll continue their zerg-like bad playing (which is fine, since they are now funding their own bad play)

10% of the time, they continue with the bad play, hand me nothing... and we end up wiping... but I didn't waste a bunch of money.

I'll take the exp hit by re-entering rather than waste a lot of gold...


Now... if I'm with a GOOD group, and it's a tough quest, and we've had some bad luck... I'll use the resources... I save SP pots for occasions like that... I've never had to buy a SP pot... I'll pull them in, one by one over a couple of weeks, then have to use 3-4 in a laggy Shroud run where half the team died in Part 4... That's okay...

Yah know I think I will simply lay off my cleric for the time being. If the purported super elite omg uebers can't pull off a simple hound run on norm then we got issues.....

[gfunk]

(cleric buffs in red, other colors for other classes)

in part 1:
-we usually ask for people to type in TS if they need true seeing, and request a GH if they really need it (i.e. if they have no fear immunity). If its taking more than a few seconds to get people in I'll sometimes throw out a Jump on everyone from my ranger (but not from my caster unless requested). Its then Haste, and go through the portal. Clerics caste Prayer when the first portal pops and continue to refresh it. Songs at the first portal as well, if available. Additional buffs seem like a waste to me (my cleric would rather just throw a mass clw once or twice during part 1 rather than wasate all the time with resists).

part 2:
We usually just charge in with self buffs. If the party isnt too confident then a recitation might be in order. If the party garthers after clearing the maze I'll throw a mass deathward, and a prayer. Fire resist/protect and freedom of movement are situationally cast. I try and remember to pass out barkskin when i am on my ranger to anyone I run past. If I am on my Sorcerer, I will chase some people down and cast displacement and give GH by request (not neccessary if we have a bard). As in part 1 above, just a hasteand songs if people are gathered conviniently. We often do without (although its often pracitcal to cast an extended haste, all melees should be able to provide their own haste via pots if needed).

part 3:
-I cast rage on myself to give me better survival odds when trying to kill other guildies. As a cleric, healing is strictly optional until all puzzles are solved.

part 4:
As a cleric I pass out fire resist, poison, and stalwart pact before running off to shrine (with all melees/non-buffers lined up as instructed). I'll throw mass protect, and recitation when i get back. As in the previous rounds the caster/bards can get Haste, and songs (usually after going through the portal). After the initial mobs are cleared I'll throw a prayer. I dont find blur or displacement that useful for the bulk of the party, as most of the damage when clearing is from the blades, and harry has true seeing anyways. I do cast displacement and stoneskin on my sorc, who sometimes passes it to anyone who looks especially squishy (and often to clerics as well so they don't have as many concentration checks vs. the trash).

part 5:
if facing the kobold ill drop a deathward. Otherwise its: mass protect, recitation and prayer as soon as everyone resurrects. On my sorc I'll drop a haste immediately and sometimes start casting displacement on people (I avoid blur because displacement should last for all the lieutenants and its pointless to have blur vs. harry). As the lieutenants are dropping, my sorc will check to see who hasn't cast GH on themselves while I dance in a pool and pass it around accordingly (I dont dps lieutenants with my sorc in a standard party). On my ranger I will cast bark in between killing lieutenants, and pass poison and fire resist to those who respond to my question "who needs fire or poison?" Invariably, some people don't ever respond, even to repeat queries from both voice and in party chat. Songs can be ongoing throughout this initial part, and my cleric will cast a new prayer and recitation just before the last lieutenant is taken down.

[Junts]

There's a lot of good advice here, Dres, and I would add this:

most of the buffing advice here is appropriate for a very good group: true seeing those who need, throw some poisons out if people want them, throw mass prot every so often, and go for pt 1 .. pass out needed resists orfoms in 2 once you know the pull .. make sure everyone has fire and poison immunity in 4 and 5.

In the kind of shrouds you are usually in, I highly recommend more buffing: your shrouds are not typically filled with high-end, self-sufficient players, and most of them will not be able to take care of their own ghs, resistances, poisons, etc as most players here expect. In those kind of runs, you want to pass out a few to the more squishy-appearing people

remember that resistance >>>>> protection for people w/o improved evasion (soemtimes, i notice, you seem to forget that and just throw protects on yourself with your cleric).

however, they have outlined the really important buffs, and this should inform you that people asking for ts for pt 2 or fom for pt 4 should be ignored and/or ridiculed.

[BlackSteel]

I ask anyone who needs TS in part one to type 'TS,' then they get popped. Tend to laugh at the silly fleshies that get trog stenched, then make a note to hit them with hero's feast in part 3. Then a protection from elementals going into part 4 and after ressing in 5.

so for me

TS part 1 on needed
Hero's Feast prior to 4
and Protection

if someone fusses for fire resist I may hit em if the arcane or ranger cant do it

[Eudimio]

Mass Protection from Elements is the only elemental resistance you need in all parts, other than fire resist in parts 4&5, and unless you are on the fire ele in part 2.

[moops]

Same as most above-- posting as well so you can see a consensus

Part 1 - True Seeing, and only to those who need it--people should have neut pots, and for the most part after the first clearing they won't even see a mob, just the portals, and someone usually casts prayer. I never reall for SP, and in raid I run I make it clear that no one is to recall for SP.

Part 2 - Only what is needed for the mobs pulled

Part 4- I haven't even bothered with Heroes feast since the raid first came out, if I was in an unfamiliar group I'd prob use it--but I am not a fan of taking a long time to go into part 4 so Ill cast it a few times around the chests and if people get it they get it if they dont they dont. I am a fan of Stalwart Pact since the weird lag issues started. I use prayer and recitation since many people I run with have an AC to benefit from recitation. SYmbol of Stunning for CC.


Part 5 - I try to get Rangers/Palis/Bards to pass out Fire and poison if people need so we can just kill all 4 mobs as quickly as possible and go--we kill as sson as one cleric is full which is usually right away since we are not spending our SP to give out buffs. If caster debuffs and fogs harry people aren't going to take that much damage anyway. IMHO fire protection is not that important against harry in the 5th part.

I have 3 clerics who run this and none has over 1550 sp, and they make a ton of money. I think some clerics just panic and cycle through heals with a bunch of metas on--esp in part 4 where they are fearful of a death--It's not always the clerics fault if a tank dies, maybe they shouldn't be in there in the first place (l ike that non evasion fighter with 290 HP, or that Battle Bard who takes triple the damage of any other group member), or, maybe they should learn to change positions--or listen if the leader doesnt' want the group to stay in during the blades. Death is not the end of the world.

[dopey69]

I recently cleric'd my 5th Shroud and still have some questions on buffs.

What buffs are expected before parts 1, 2, and 4?

Why is there never any coordination between buffers as to who is buffing whom? I'm sure I'm buffing characters with buffs they already have. Too bad DDO's raid list is different for every person. If it were static, we could say "you buff the left column, I'll buff the right."

Shouldn't I be doing individual buffs BEFORE shrining? Resist, True Seeing, and Freedom seem like good pre-fight buffs but people never want to wait for them. They click the shrine and go.

Finally, what is with all the whining about how expensive it is to cleric a Shroud? I ran my last shroud with another cleric who just hit 15. Neither of us have any raid gear or Shroud items yet we finished part 5 with him at 25% sp and me at 50%. I might have used 4 scrolls to spot heal but obviously didn't need to. I've never used a pot in the Shroud.

Are the broke clerics using maximized, empowered, quickened 450+ hp heals on 300 hp characters?

when the shroud first came out it was horribly expesive then we got it down and our gear got better wait till mod 9 comes and be one of the first groups in and then you will no expensive . A lot of pots were drunk and a lot of heal scrolls used in the making of your inexpensive shroud run and you are welcome

[ddoer]

for my sorc, i like to give extended GH, Jump and resists (as most people don't shrine in part 1) and then go out to refill mana while people are cleaning the initial mobs. It usually won't cost any waiting time unless the party refuse to start before I come back.