Another 18/1/1. But this one is called God.

[Aaxeyu]

Thanks.





Alright, looking at just your build stat spread, here’s how it could be done:
Starting Stats:-------Different approach
Str 16--------------------Str 18
Dex 16-------------------Dex 14
Con 12-------------------Con 12
Int 8 ---------------------Int 8
Wis 15--------------------Wis 14
Cha 8---------------------Cha 8

Ending Stats: Yours
Str 32 (16 base + 5 level + 6 item + 3 tome + 2 rams )
Dex 28 (16 base + 3 tome + 6 item + 2 ranger enhancement +1 enhancement)
Con 20 (12 base + 2 tome + 6 item)
Int 10 (8 base + 2 tome)
Wis 28 (15 base +3 tome + 6 item +2 shroud weapon +1 enhancement +1 DT armor)
Cha 10 (8 base + 2 tome)

Ending Stats: Mine
Str 36 (18 base + 5 level + 6 item +2 tome + 2 rams +1 human enh *+2 Shroud wpn- Stm, crush, slay )
Dex 26 (14 base + 2 tome + 6 item + *3 ranger enhancement +1 human enh) -1 AC
Con 20 (12 base + 2 tome + 6 item)
Int 10 (8 base + 2 tome)
Wis 22 (14 base +2 tome + 6 item) -3 AC
Cha 10 (8 base + 2 tome)
*Human Vers a waste with 43 UMD unless your looking to open a lock disable a trap…
*Could do a shroud + 3 Str if you did manage a +3 tome for 38 Str


End result vs. your spread
The benefits of higher ,36 Str are around + 10 DPS vs. - 4 AC (-6 if you swallow a Rage pot to increase +5 DPS). You are arguing you could use Defensive stance and not take CE (which is only- 3 AC difference between the 2). Neither does this spread rely on +3 Tomes much less 3 of them to include a Str. Trade off being getting hit roughly 3-5% more or doing +1200 DPS over 2 min. to +3000 DPS over 5 min.
With this look you can keep your feats the same, have the same healing power but evident benifits to your DPS. Unless you think the tradeoff is worth it for 4 AC.

But what if you did decide you want CE or you had or knew you would have 3 +3 Tomes to chew ?
1-2 less skill points in Dex if you use a +3 Dex tome, (which you used in your orig calcs.)
1 less skill point in Wis if you use a +3 Wis tome (which you used in your orig. calcs) Still come up with the same spread of AC bonus, (-4 vs. your spread)
And add +2-3 to Int. (I suppose it depends on if this is one of the +3 tomes to determine Dex pts as well.)

End result vs. your spread
+1 AP per lvl, 20 extra AP with +2 Tome at lvl 1,(versatitility) at end game for more options such as Intimi, (Open lock 12-15 good for most with item such as Titan pre or Flesh mkrs or Disable 15-17 fine for Vod, monastery, etc. also fairly nice for soloing), CE for +5 AC, 36 Str or +2 w/ rage(38 with a +4 tome, like you show with your monster bld.)

I don’t see any real loss building a Max Str Ranger. Using your calcs, your build, with the spread I mention to maximize Str would avg. 2-5 DPS less,(240 over 2 min, 600 over 5 min) than your DPS monster build, 389.2 – 391.74. Ahh, but the monster is no longer a viable DPS build…
Then calculating staying Pure Ranger, Max Str, with the Tempest III, and the Bow Option on the back end w/ 25% increase, occasional Many shot is very simple , (which is fairly sick DPS for the first 20 sec., switch to melee, repeat as often as necessary). What don’t you see? What makes Rangers such a waste in DPS?

Your rants to subclass all Rangers as Tank DPS wannabes are ridiculous. It’s called versatility, the game seems to enjoy it, jump in, the waters fine. Palys, Ftrs, Barbs, Rogs, Rangs, can all be made into hvy DPS tanks. The game is fluid and likes changes, nothing is God or finite here.

Nice analysis, finaly someone actually backs there statements up with something.


I don't agree that 2-3% more DPS is worth 6 AC thou, it's not a very fair trade.


You missed one extremely important thing about the monster calculation, I didn't include either haste boost or powersurge.
My point with that calc was to show that even without those things the monster is still ahead of a max str human ranger/rogue/monk.
So your conclusions are completely false.

[Hadrian]

Do you think that your build could go all out DPS and tank Sully at the same time?

And Bororr0, what fight in the game lasts 10 minutes? Even the one I just mentioned isn't really 10 minutes, since he fights you a few minutes at a time and then gives you a break.

[Aaxeyu]

Do you think that your build could go all out DPS and tank Sully at the same time?

And Bororr0, what fight in the game lasts 10 minutes? Even the one I just mentioned isn't really 10 minutes, since he fights you a few minutes at a time and then gives you a break.

Not without high intimidate.
His AC is high enough, but he would lose aggro quite fast if there was a "real" dps toon there.

No ranger have ever beena ble to hold aggr via dps from my monster, and next mod the dps difference will be greater.

[Ollathir]

Nice analysis, finaly someone actually backs there statements up with something.


I don't agree that 2-3% more DPS is worth 6 AC thou, it's not a very fair trade.


You missed one extremely important thing about the monster calculation, I didn't include either haste boost or powersurge.
My point with that calc was to show that even without those things the monster is still ahead of a max str human ranger/rogue/monk.
So your conclusions are completely false.

Didn't miss it, I used the calcs you showed. Still takes nothing away from the discussion. In my opinion, as one who favors DPS over the small AC gain and not to rely on +3 tomes, works out better using your build, your calcs.

[Hadrian]

Not without high intimidate.
His AC is high enough, but he would lose aggro quite fast if there was a "real" dps toon there.

No ranger have ever beena ble to hold aggr via dps from my monster, and next mod the dps difference will be greater.

What would his AC actually be if you went all out on DPS? Assume perfect gear, and just in case it doesn't go without saying, make sure it's actually possible too. (No using three rings at the same time or something like that.)

[Aaxeyu]

Didn't miss it, I used the calcs you showed. Still takes nothing away from the discussion. In my opinion, as one who favors DPS over the small AC gain and not to rely on +3 tomes, works out better using your build, your calcs.

It takes this part away from the discussion really:

I don’t see any real loss building a Max Str Ranger. Using your calcs, your build, with the spread I mention to maximize Str would avg. 2-5 DPS less,(240 over 2 min, 600 over 5 min) than your DPS monster build, 389.2 – 391.74. Ahh, but the monster is no longer a viable DPS build…
Then calculating staying Pure Ranger, Max Str, with the Tempest III, and the Bow Option on the back end w/ 25% increase, occasional Many shot is very simple , (which is fairly sick DPS for the first 20 sec., switch to melee, repeat as often as necessary). What don’t you see? What makes Rangers such a waste in DPS?

Your rants to subclass all Rangers as Tank DPS wannabes are ridiculous. It’s called versatility, the game seems to enjoy it, jump in, the waters fine. Palys, Ftrs, Barbs, Rogs, Rangs, can all be made into hvy DPS tanks. The game is fluid and likes changes, nothing is God or finite here.

You are talking about versatility, and still you want to max str on a ranger.
Don't you get that even a max str human ranger have less dps than a Monster when the monster isn't using his boosts or power surge. Add those and the ranger is far behind, even if it uses its 5 charges of 15% haste boost.
Both have manyshot.

Who said anything about The Monster not beeing viable? It's imo the best DPS build, (don't confuse "best DPS build" with "build with highest DPS")

I'm not the one who tries to subclass all rangers into DPS wannabes, I'm the one who's againts max str on rangers, remember?
Yes, all classes can be made into heavy DPS tanks, but some classes are simply superior.
A max str ranger will be behind in dps, quite far behind too. (Do some calcs on many shot before you use it as an argument please).
Rangers have lots of potential for great survivability and versatility, why waste so much of it by maxing STR for only a few points of DPS?

It's better to go 90% ac, 90% dps than 50% ac, 100% dps for rangers, as AC comes very easy to them, especially selfbuffed AC.

[Aaxeyu]

What would his AC actually be if you went all out on DPS? Assume perfect gear, and just in case it doesn't go without saying, make sure it's actually possible too. (No using three rings at the same time or something like that.)

Str: max
Dex 26 (Base 14, +3 ranger, +3 tome, +6 item)
Wis 24 (Base 14, +3 tome, +6 item, +1 enhancement)

Lets see:
10 base
8 armored bracers
3 chattering ring
4 icy raiment
7 wisdom
8 dex
1 ritual
5 deflection
4 insight
1 dodge
4 tempest
-------------------
55 unbuffed.
-------------------
5 bark
2 recitation
------------------
62 selfbuffed


Compared to:

Str:16
Dex 28 (Base 15, +3 ranger + 3 tome + 6 item + 1 enhancement)
Wis 28 (Base 16, +3 tome, +6 item, +1 enhancement, +2 shroud item)

10 base
8 armored bracers
3 chattering ring
4 icy raiment
9 wisdom
9 dex
1 ritual
5 deflection
4 insight
1 dodge
4 tempest
-------------------
58 unbuffed.
-------------------
5 bark
2 recitation
------------------
65 selfbuffed


Both builds can obviously have +2 wisdom on mineral II, but you asked for all out DPS so be glad that the DPS build got +4 insight

The AC difference is 2/3 and they are on a level of AC where 2/3 AC matters.

If we assume that both builds go for the wisdom on the secons mineral two weapon the max str build have 6 dps higher. That is ~1,5% higher DPS for 2 AC.
2 AC is 10% on the d20, and if you ever had a AC toon you should know how awesome 2 AC is.

[Hadrian]

Both builds can obviously have +2 wisdom on mineral II, but you asked for all out DPS so be glad that the DPS build got +4 insight

The AC difference is 2/3 and they are on a level of AC where 2/3 AC matters.

If we assume that both builds go for the wisdom on the secons mineral two weapon the max str build have 6 dps higher. That is ~1,5% higher DPS for 2 AC.
2 AC is 10% on the d20, and if you ever had a AC toon you should know how awesome 2 AC is.

Well, you're not going to stop and recast recitation against sully every 42 seconds or whatever it is in DPS mode either And since acid blast doesn't pass sully's resistance, the non-damaging 3rd tier effects are best. I see you're taking into account tempest III, so this is at level 20 and not current game.

But I am not comparing your build to his, I am comparing it to mine. I would never play an 18 STR ranger. My ranger is a halfling.

[Aaxeyu]

Well, you're not going to stop and recast recitation against sully every 42 seconds or whatever it is in DPS mode either And since acid blast doesn't pass sully's resistance, the non-damaging 3rd tier effects are best. I see you're taking into account tempest III, so this is at level 20 and not current game.

But I am not comparing your build to his, I am comparing it to mine. I would never play an 18 STR ranger. My ranger is a halfling.

The clerics should be casting recitation, it's a very powerful buff.

Oh, I assumed mod 9, sorry.

[Hadrian]

The clerics should be casting recitation, it's a very powerful buff.

Sure they should, but you put that under "self buffed". I don't count a cleric's buffs as self buffs.

[Aaxeyu]

Sure they should, but you put that under "self buffed". I don't count a cleric's buffs as self buffs.

Oh yea. The calc was not only for suulo thou. Just AC.

Then it's 61 vs 63 selfbuffed.

[Hadrian]

Oh yea. The calc was not only for suulo thou. Just AC.

Then it's 61 vs 63 selfbuffed.

Yes, including the +2 exceptional wisdom item.

[Accelerando]

I don't agree that 2-3% more DPS is worth 6 AC thou, it's not a very fair trade.

Oh rly?

[hereforbuilds]

Just pointing out a typo:
(nevermind I found the additional +1 charisma skill on another item)
Tempest shield bonus to AC caps at +3, not +4.

May I ask why you have Wizardry VI twice? One GS item has 150 SP on it, and another has Wiz 6. I don't think your gloves can have ALL those effects on them at once.

ther is triple air/pos on items that giv extra mana-tier 1=wiz 6, tier 2-+50 sp, tier 3-+100 (these 2 bonuses stack equaling 150 and wiz 6 stacks also equaling 275? im a bit foggy on the bonus behind wiz 6)

[Absolute-Omniscience]

[img=http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/944/holythreadresurrectionbd.th.jpg]

[Uska]

kind of offensive calling something god.

[QuantumFX]

kind of offensive calling something god.

The forum truncated “Awful rip off” from the title.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

The forum truncated “Awful rip off” from the title.

The incorrect and biased persons thought it to be a rip off, yes. The ones that plays the game and isn't completely ignorant; not really; they deemed it a superior build. Just because something has the same class-split, doesn't make it a copy.
In that sense, the "Exploiter" is just as much of a copy, as "Verengor" posted a similar build on the EU forums months before the "Exploiter" was posted.

Protip, get yer facts right.

[Yargore]

kind of offensive calling something god.

I disagree.

The forum truncated “Awful rip off” from the title.

Aweful rip off of what?

Because it have the same obvious class split as the oh so great exploiter? Please, it's not rocket science to figure out that it's the best way to go.

If you actually read the build you'll find that they are quite different. Although this one didn't gimp it self with CE.

[QuantumFX]

Because it have the same obvious class split as the oh so great exploiter? Please, it's not rocket science to figure out that it's the best way to go.

Yes, it’s a cheap knock off of the Exploiter. And while it isn’t rocket science to build it is something original. The only original thing your build threads give the community is a sense of Deja Vu when they read them.