Sorceror vs Wizard DPS

[Xylitol]

Made quick test with quickened 1 lvl niacs and burning hand. Both wizard and sorceror could cast second spell immediately after general 1 sec cooldown (which starts running immediately after casting starts) had gone. This would indicate that both wizard and sorceror has same DPS as long as wizard can recycle different damage spells so that their longer cooldown dont prevent second cast. Sorceror has only better DPS when cooldows are in effect (and when spell casting takes longer than 1 sec).

Has anyone else made more accurate tests? I Have tought that sorcerors have been much better DPS casters all the time.

[FluffyCalico]

Try using high level casters.

[Mhykke]

Made quick test with quickened 1 lvl niacs and burning hand. Both wizard and sorceror could cast second spell immediately after general 1 sec cooldown (which starts running immediately after casting starts) had gone. This would indicate that both wizard and sorceror has same DPS as long as wizard can recycle different damage spells so that their longer cooldown dont prevent second cast. Sorceror has only better DPS when cooldows are in effect (and when spell casting takes longer than 1 sec).

Has anyone else made more accurate tests? I Have tought that sorcerors have been much better DPS casters all the time.

The reasons why people say sorcs are nukers and dps'ers are because they have more spell points to continue spamming dps spells (and faster), and they have fewer spell slots (and can only change a spell once every 3 days) so they don't have the luxury of being able to use a variety of spells like wizards (some of which aren't damage oriented, like debuffs or various clouds). Most sorcs select the common DPS spells (firewall, scorching ray, polar ray, etc.) and sprinkle in a few other kinds of spells.

But sorcs and wizards can both use the same items, same enhancements, etc., so the damage from one spell doesn't vary from sorc to wizard.

[FluffyCalico]

The reasons why people say sorcs are nukers and dps'ers are because they have more spell points to continue spamming dps spells, and they have fewer spell slots (and can only change a spell once every 3 days) so they don't have the luxury of being able to use a variety of spells like wizards (some of which aren't damage oriented, like debuffs or various clouds). Most sorcs select the common DPS spells (firewall, scorching ray, polar ray, etc.) and sprinkle in a few other kinds of spells.

But sorcs and wizards can both use the same items, same enhancements, etc., so the damage from one spell doesn't vary from sorc to wizard.

1) next mod there will be a noticable difference in damage from the same spells
2) Since a sorc can cast the spells much much faster there is already a large difference in DPS

[Mhykke]

1) next mod there will be a noticable difference in damage from the same spells
2) Since a sorc can cast the spells much much faster there is already a large difference in DPS

Yes, next mod. But that isn't here yet. The OP wasn't testing wizards vs. sorcs in the next mod.

[FluffyCalico]

Yes, next mod. But that isn't here yet. The OP wasn't testing wizards vs. sorcs in the next mod.

#2 of what you quoted is already here and has been since game released

[esoitl]

Indeed. A Sorceror will never out damage a Wizard spell to spell all things identical but they will however be able to cast more spells and cast spells faster.

I think it's a terrible myth that Wizards are buffers and Sorcerors are nukers but generally the spell selection for a Sorceror doesn't carry many buffs or debuffs due to the fact, as Mhykke pointed out, they can only change spells every few days and for a cost. The best approach is to take the most useful spells and stick with them which basically means taking all the damage/instant kill spells.

[Mhykke]

#2 of what you quoted is already here and has been since game released

yes, but since the OP was talking about cycling through spells on the wiz, it seemed that he believed that sorcs were somehow doing more damage spell versus spell. I'll add casting speed to my reply.

[FluffyCalico]

Something else to keep in mind is low level damage spells are already becomming dated. And will more so at level 20. Any DPS spell level 1-3 should be replaced by level 20. Fireball starts to lag at level 11 and by 16 is really starting to suffer. by level 20 it will really be behind things like polar ray, metor swarm etc

When this happens sorc will likely free up those low level damage spots for more buffs/debuffs

Scorching Ray
Blasts a target with fiery rays, doing 4d6 fire damage on impact. The number of rays increases by 1 ray for every four levels beyond 3rd, to a maximum of three rays at 11th level.

Spell: Fireball
Creates a ball of fire that detonates on impact, causing an explosion of flame that deals 1d6 per caster level fire damage (max 10d6) to targets around it. A successful Reflex save reduces the damage by half.

vs say
Spell: Polar Ray
Deals 1d6 per caster level (max 25d6) cold damage to an enemy with a ray of freezing ice and air.

You can see these high level spells that are starting to show up will change what DPS spells you want to have. In mod 9 more nice ones are comming. I expect all low level spells to become charm/buff/debuff/cc. I do not see any low level DPS spell surriving except firewall

[esoitl]

Something else to keep in mind is low level damage spells are already becomming dated. And will more so at level 20. Any DPS spell level 1-3 should be replaced by level 20. Fireball starts to lag at level 11 and by 16 is really starting to suffer. by level 20 it will really be behind things like polar ray, metor swarm etc

It'll be interesting to see if they add a spell so that a Sorceror may not carry these but I doubt that.

[Xylitol]

#2 of what you quoted is already here and has been since game released

Yes, but aslong as wizard can cycle spells it doesent matter. Both wizard and sorceror can only cast 1 spell a second (and 5 in a five seconds, etc). You can do this even higher lvls spells (quicked polarray or DFB takes less than secod to cast even to wizard).

How spell casting goes (not measured time, just a example):

0s -> both wizard and sorceror start casting spell
0.2s -> sorceror spell ready
0.4s - > wizard spell ready
0.5s - 1s -> both sorceror and wizard waits to cooloff go away.

1s -> both wizard and sorceror start casting second spell
1.2s -> sorceror second spell ready
1.4s -> wizard second spell ready
1.5s -2s -> both sorceror and wizard waits to cooloff go away.

[Xylitol]

yes, but since the OP was talking about cycling through spells on the wiz, it seemed that he believed that sorcs were somehow doing more damage spell versus spell. I'll add casting speed to my reply.

No I didnt. I ment exactly damage per second (sorceror faster casting time). Sorcerors also have to cycle spell to do max DPS, but because they have shorter cooldowns in spells they can do it with fewer choises.

[FluffyCalico]

No I didnt. I ment exactly damage per second (sorceror faster casting time). Sorcerors also have to cycle spell to do max DPS, but because they have shorter cooldowns in spells they can do it with fewer choises.

And since you almost always have only 1-2 spells that work BEST on said critter that would give the sorc the most DPS. Wiz I believe would need at least 3 to try.

All spells not created equal.

1) Sorc more DPS in 99% of situations as you will almost never have 3 equally effective and equally damaging spells for a mob.
2) Sorc longer sustained DPS due to more SP
3) Sorc more raw Damage per spell next mod

So yes Sorc fits the roll of DPS better

[Xylitol]

And since you almost always have only 1-2 spells that work BEST on said critter that would give the sorc the most DPS. Wiz I believe would need at least 3 to try.

All spells not created equal.

1) Sorc more DPS in 99% of situations as you will almost never have 3 equally effective and equally damaging spells for a mob.
2) Sorc longer sustained DPS due to more SP
3) Sorc more raw Damage per spell next mod

So yes Sorc fits the roll of DPS better

Yes, but I was discussing about MAX theorethical dps (like all the MAX dps melee builds that have super DPS in very resticted sitatuations). And currently wizard and sorcerors can have same max dps. Also point was that I tought sorcerors was "much better" before. I dont think that anymore (after mod 9 they might be again because of capstone) .

[FluffyCalico]

Yes, but I was discussing about MAX theorethical dps (like all the MAX dps melee builds that have super DPS in very resticted sitatuations). .

OK so like I said Sorc has better DPS in 99% of situations. (Unless there are 3 spells of exact same DPS for said mob)

This fits what you were looking for. Wiz can only get equal 1% of the time that thats only premod 9. After that it will drop to 0% of the time

[Xylitol]

After that it will drop to 0% of the time

Not at lvls 1-19

[FluffyCalico]

Not at lvls 1-19

yes you can keep your 1% until 19.

Just wait until we turn into air eles and knock everything on it's butt.

[kudesnik]

I am missing something - what is coming in mod9 that will make sorc. spells have better DPS ?

[Xylitol]

yes you can keep your 1% until 19.

Little exaggeration, but I see your point.

Just wait until we turn into air eles and knock everything on it's butt.

That doesnt improve you DPS anyway

[Xylitol]

I am missing something - what is coming in mod9 that will make sorc. spells have better DPS ?

Their lvl 20 capstone. 10% more damage to all spells.