KotC Tempest Zealot

[Impaqt]

Updating a build idea I had for a Tempest Zealot. Less AC, More DPS vs. Evil Outsiders.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Lawful Good Human Male
(14 Paladin / 6 Ranger)
Hit Points: 470+

20 Heroic Durability
140 Paly Levels
48 Ranger Levels
120 Con Bonus
22 TOughness
60 TOughness ENH
20 Minos Legen
10 Draconic
30 GFL
--
470 HP (COuld add Second Shroud Item for +45 More)

Spell Points:ENough for DF/RM/Zeal up pretty much constantly.

BAB: 20/20/25/30/30 X2

20 BAB
10 STR Bonus
5 Weapons
---
+35 Base
-2/-2
----
+33/+33
1 Rams Might
1 Rage Spell/Pot
1 Haste
3 Divine Favor
4 GH (Gird or Scroll)
--
+43/+43 Self Buffed
5 Bard Songs (Maxed Warchanter)
2 Recitation
---
+50/+50 FIrst Swings +3 VS Evil Outsiders (KotC + Fav Enemie)


Fortitude/Reflex/Will

9/5/5 Paladin 14
5/5/2 Ranger 6
6/7/4 Attributes
4/4/4 AUra
7/7/7 Divine Grace
5/5/5 Resistance Item
2/2/2 Luck
1/1/1 Resist Ritual
-----
39/36/30
4/4/4 GH
---------
43/40/34




Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 16)
{30/34}Strength 16 +2 Tome +5 Levels +1 Human +6 Item +2 Rams Might +2 Rage
{24}Dexterity 15+2 Tome +1 Ranger +6 Item
{22}Constitution 14 +2 Tome +6 Item
{16}Intelligence 8 +2 Tome +6 item as needed
{18}Wisdom 10 +2 Tome +6 Item
{24}Charisma 14+2 Tome +1 Paly +1 Human +6 ITem

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 1

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 16)
{28+}Balance 11 Ranks +7 Dex +10 Item


{48}Diplomacy Back loaded this in paly levels just for some NPC stuff, but got high enough for those "Oh ****" Moments. 14 Ranks +7CHR +15 Item +4GH +2 Luck +6 Shroud


Hide
Move Silently Front loaded Hide and MS in Ranger Levels 11 Ranks+7Dex +15 Items +4 GH +2 Luck = 39 for good situational Sneaking
Jump 8 Rank + STR gets solid Jump SKill



Spot 8 Ranks, Enough for a little foresight on mob location when wearing an item.

Tumble 1 Rank at Creation

{29/33/38}Use Magic Device 11 Ranks +7 CHR +3 Cartouse +6 Shroud item +2 Luck = 29 +4GH =33 +2 Gloves +3 SF

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Human Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider

Level 2 (Ranger)

Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility

Level 4 (Paladin)

Level 5 (Paladin)

Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack

Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead

Level 8 (Ranger)

Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 10 (Paladin)

Level 11 (Paladin)

Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 13 (Paladin)

Level 14 (Paladin)

Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 16 (Paladin)

Level 17 (Paladin)

Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Oversize TWF, Power Attack, or Extend Spell if Timing is an issue with Self Buff Spells
Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)

Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Divine Might I
Enhancement: Divine Might II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength II
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhaancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV
---
64 Points

4 KotC I
2 KotC II
3 LoH III
3 Resistance of Good III
4 Dex or CHR II if a +3 TOme is found for one of those stats.
----
80 Points

[Jay203]

going full plate on this guy then?

[Impaqt]

going full plate on this guy then?

Full Plate, Robes, Brigadine....

Shouldnt matter all that Much...

Dragontouched Leather perhaps?

[LargeMarge]

I am leveling up a WF (14 paly/6 ranger) just like this build. I've noticed that the clickies take a little getting used to due to their short duration. However, once I master the playing style of this build I should be dishing out a TON of dmg. Spamming Exalted Smites and Divine Sacrafice with Divine Might takes those red names down REALLY FAST.

One thing I noticed in your enhancements was I didn't see Paladin Courage of Good II and Paladin Energy of the Templar II. Both are prereqs for KotC II (according to the official preview).

If you like...I can post my planned WF build and we can compair notes. I actually rolled him up as a pure paly...but then (around lvl 6) compaired a pure paly to a tempest paly and decided that you get WAY more stuff with the tempest paly and also better DPS overall.

Awesome build man!

[GoldyGopher]

On average how much damage per swing do you expect be doing per swing against a MOB with a 48 AC?

PS I picked 48 at somewhat random as it is about 10 higher than Harry and Sally.

[Impaqt]

I am leveling up a WF (14 paly/6 ranger) just like this build. I've noticed that the clickies take a little getting used to due to their short duration. However, once I master the playing style of this build I should be dishing out a TON of dmg. Spamming Exalted Smites and Divine Sacrafice with Divine Might takes those red names down REALLY FAST.

One thing I noticed in your enhancements was I didn't see Paladin Courage of Good II and Paladin Energy of the Templar II. Both are prereqs for KotC II (according to the official preview).

If you like...I can post my planned WF build and we can compair notes. I actually rolled him up as a pure paly...but then (around lvl 6) compaired a pure paly to a tempest paly and decided that you get WAY more stuff with the tempest paly and also better DPS overall.

Awesome build man!

Fixed the Enhancments, Had Devotion II and Bulwark II instead of the reqs.

I need to take a good long look at the enhancments still though. I'm sure I can fit at least Divine Sacrifice II if not III in there.

[Impaqt]

On average how much damage per swing do you expect be doing per swing against a MOB with a 48 AC?

PS I picked 48 at somewhat random as it is about 10 higher than Harry and Sally.

I dont understand, Are you implying that the To Hit is Low?


I'm not a hugh "DPS Numbers" Person, but...

12 STR Damage
2 RamsMight
4 Divine Might
3 Divien Favor
5 Weapon
6 Fav Enemy
---
so 1d8 +32 +2d6 Evil Outsider KotC + Holy Burst (Holy Sword Spell)

Seems like pretty good numbers to me.

[GoldyGopher]

I dont understand, Are you implying that the To Hit is Low?

Nope, Just want to know what the world thinks is good DPS (Damage per Swing) or more DPS in your case.

[Cold_Stele]

Nope, Just want to know what the world thinks is good DPS (Damage per Swing) or more DPS in your case.

Damage Per Second is more important than Damage Per Swing. His DPS comes from his more or less permanent +20% melee alacrity...

[LargeMarge]

Ok...here is my planned build. I wasn't able to use a generator (at work atm), so look at it and tell me what you think.

WF (14 Paladin / 6 Ranger)
lvl 1 through 6: Paladin
lvl 7 through 12: Ranger
lvl 13 through 20: Paladin

Feat Progression
1: Toughness
3: Dodge
6: Mobility
- 7: Favored Enemy Giant
- 8: TWF
9: Improved Crit (Slashing)
- 11: Favored Enemy Evil Outsiders
12: Spring Attack
- 12: ITWF
15: Extend
18: GTWF

I am hoping to find a +3 dex tome for GTWF

Stats
Str: 16 +5(lvl) +3(tome) +6(Levik's Bracers) = 30
Dex: 14 +3 (tome) +5 (Spectral Gloves) = 22
Con: 10 +2 (tome) +6 (Neck or DT Docent) = 18
Int: 8 +2 (tome) = 10
Wis: 6 +2 (tome) +6 (GS Stalemate) = 14
Cha: 16 +4 (tome) +6 (Cloak) = 26

Skill Progression
UMD
Intimidate
Balance
Jump

Gear
Head: Minos Legens
Neck: +6 Con / Silver Flame Tailsman
Trinket: Bloodstone / Head of Good Fortune
Cloak: GS Air (+6 Dex Skills, +45 HP, Haste 3/rest, Air Guard)
Belt: GS Stalemate 2 (+6 Wis, WIZ VI, +4 Cha Skills, +150 SP, +2 Int Skills, Concordant Opp)
Ring 1: GFL (+1 Saves Ritual)
Ring 2: +6 Cha Ring
Gloves: Spectral Gloves / Seven Fingered Gloves (for UMD)
Boots: Striders 30% / Gyroscopic Boots / Madstone x2
Bracers: Levik's Bracers
Goggles: Tharne's Goggles
Docent: Dragontouched (+5 Res / Crushing, Salt, or Magma Guard / Freezing or Earth Guard) and Titanic Docent x 4 for the clickies

Weapon(1): GS Scimitar (Lightning II)
Weapon(2): GS Kukri (Min II) or (Pos/Pos/Pos)

Shield: Levik's Defender (for Turtleing up)

*Also plan on having lots of GS displacement clickies


Enhancements:
Ranger Tempest I
Ranger Favored Dmg
Ranger Energy of the Wild
Ranger Sprint Boost I
Ranger Favored Defence I
Ranger Favored Attack I
Total: 12

Paladin Follower of the Lord of Blades
Paladin Bladeswarm Transformation
Paladin Courage of Good II
Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Paladin KotC II
Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Paladin Divine Might II
Paladin Exalted Smite III
Paladin Divine Sacrafice II
Paladin Toughness III
Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Paladin Item Defense I
Paladin Resistances of Good III
Total: 60

WF Healer's Friend I
Total: 2

Sum = 74 (got 6 more to play with)

The one mistake I made was that I was trying for a pure paly build...but decide to go tempest/paly at around lvl 6. If I would have know that...I would have lowered his initial Cha to 14, and increase his Con. Maybe even his Str. But I have already put in all +2 Tomes and plan on continuing him to end game.

[GoldyGopher]

Damage Per Second is more important than Damage Per Swing. His DPS comes from his more or less permanent +20% melee alacrity...

I have to completely disagree with that statement, for the most part. If we were talking Damage per 10 seconds or 20 seconds or even 1 minute it makes more sense. But DPSecond is either 0 (I missed) or a bazillion (I hit). There is no average DPS in a game that doesn't use rounds.

It isn't about DP Second but how far through the attack chain or how many times through an attack chain/sequence you need to go through to dispatch a mob. In that case the Swing become important.

Does that make sense?

[vtecfiend99]

I have to completely disagree with that statement, for the most part. If we were talking Damage per 10 seconds or 20 seconds or even 1 minute it makes more sense. But DPSecond is either 0 (I missed) or a bazillion (I hit). There is no average DPS in a game that doesn't use rounds.

It isn't about DP Second but how far through the attack chain or how many times through an attack chain/sequence you need to go through to dispatch a mob. In that case the Swing become important.

Does that make sense?

When there are as many swings in a second as there are in this game? No.

Damage per second > Damage per swing.

Why do you think that TWF>THF? THF will have a higher damage per swing, but TWF will have more hits per second. Making it have a higher damage rate.

[LargeMarge]

I have to completely disagree with that statement, for the most part. If we were talking Damage per 10 seconds or 20 seconds or even 1 minute it makes more sense. But DPSecond is either 0 (I missed) or a bazillion (I hit). There is no average DPS in a game that doesn't use rounds.

It isn't about DP Second but how far through the attack chain or how many times through an attack chain/sequence you need to go through to dispatch a mob. In that case the Swing become important.

Does that make sense?

Tomato / Tomaato

You are still talking about a RATE...which is a unit divided by time.

If you would rather say Damage Per Swing...then multiply that unit by the Swings Per Min. That result will give you a Damage Per Min.

Then conver Min. to Sec. and that will give you the Damage Per Second that everyone talks about.

[Impaqt]

I have to completely disagree with that statement, for the most part. If we were talking Damage per 10 seconds or 20 seconds or even 1 minute it makes more sense. But DPSecond is either 0 (I missed) or a bazillion (I hit). There is no average DPS in a game that doesn't use rounds.

It isn't about DP Second but how far through the attack chain or how many times through an attack chain/sequence you need to go through to dispatch a mob. In that case the Swing become important.

Does that make sense?

Not really.

regardless of how a "Round" is set up, the number of attacks per minute is the critical factor in DDO. If rate of attack didnt matter, many more people would be using Falchions or even Greatswords. there really is no such thing as a "Round" in DDO. We are not confined to what PnP defines as a round at all. This is why "Damage per swing" is irrelevant. the character that is swinging 166 times over the course of a minue simply cant do as much damage as the player swinging 180 times in that same minute.

When a Greataxe gets 5 more attacks over the course of a Minute, theres no way for a Falchion to keep up.

DPSecond isnt about how much damage you actually do in 1 second. Its an Average per second.

[Cold_Stele]

What they said...

[jakeelala]

Tomato / Tomaato

You are still talking about a RATE...which is a unit divided by time.

If you would rather say Damage Per Swing...then multiply that unit by the Swings Per Min. That result will give you a Damage Per Min.

Then conver Min. to Sec. and that will give you the Damage Per Second that everyone talks about.

All Large is saying, and he's right, is that people frequently mix up the "per X" (or denominator). When we calculate DPS, it's damage per swing most of the time, when the calculations look like this:
"1d8 +12str + 3.5 pure good etc etc etc" that's the avg damage a swing makes. If you then calculated average number of swings in a unit of time, like swings per second (which changes based on Haste, alacrity, TWF, THF, weapon type animation, etc!!!) then you could approach the Damage Per Second number. However, it will always be an average, since the dice roll makes things always variable!

Hope that helps!

[jakeelala]

When a Greataxe gets 5 more attacks over the course of a Minute, theres no way for a Falchion to keep up.

DPSecond isnt about how much damage you actually do in 1 second. Its an Average per second.

Well actually, if the base damage of the falchion is higher than the greataxe (either in raw damage die, modifiers, or crit threat range), and the extra average damage over a minute from that falchion advantage is greater in summation than the extra 5 great axe attacks, they keep up perfectly!

This gets further complicated by the fact that a bonus TO HIT modifier in DDO can make a huge difference too, because you can have a million attacks a minute, but if you only hit half that, you effectively have 500,000 attacks a minute.

This is EVEN further complicated by the fact that 0's ALWAYS whiff in DDO, and 20s ALWAYS hit

...for an extra complication cherry thrown on top...sometimes you crit!!

Let's not vastly oversimplify things please. It's all actually a little complicated! Much more so than most so called forum experts would have you believe.

[Impaqt]

Well actually, if the base damage of the falchion is higher than the greataxe (either in raw damage die, modifiers, or crit threat range), and the extra average damage over a minute from that falchion advantage is greater in summation than the extra 5 great axe attacks, they keep up perfectly!

not really. Base Damage, Crit Range, and Critical Multiplier should be the factors that go into balancing one weapon against another. not rate of attack. You dont really believe the devs Slowed down the Falchion annimation to reduce its damage output do you?

This gets further complicated by the fact that a bonus TO HIT modifier in DDO can make a huge difference too, because you can have a million attacks a minute, but if you only hit half that, you effectively have 500,000 attacks a minute.

Most melee focus builds should be able to hit everything, or at least most things on a 2. This isnt really all that complicated.

This is EVEN further complicated by the fact that 0's ALWAYS whiff in DDO, and 20s ALWAYS hit

I can honestly say I've never once rolled a 0 on a d20.

...for an extra complication cherry thrown on top...sometimes you crit!!

Let's not vastly oversimplify things please. It's all actually a little complicated! Much more so than most so called forum experts would have you believe.

People who calculate DPS generally do indeed include Critical hits, and "Rolling a 1"

[jakeelala]

not really. Base Damage, Crit Range, and Critical Multiplier should be the factors that go into balancing one weapon against another. not rate of attack. You dont really believe the devs Slowed down the Falchion annimation to reduce its damage output do you?


Most melee focus builds should be able to hit everything, or at least most things on a 2. This isnt really all that complicated.

I can honestly say I've never once rolled a 0 on a d20.


People who calculate DPS generally do indeed include Critical hits, and "Rolling a 1"

obviously the 0 was meant to be a 1.
It doesn't matter WHY the devs slowed down the falchion, all that matters is that they're slower, right?!

Also crit range can be modified by enhancements and feats, and can be passive or active changes. Very few people ever do all of the calculations correctly. That's why when people talk in absolute numbers in this game it's so silly!

It's all AVERAGES first of all.

And second of all, playstyle makes an enormous difference! Someone might have 8 smites but the guy who uses them every minute when they regen does more damage than the guy with the same build and weapons who does not. It is NOT a given.

And I'm sorry but assuming all melee builds hit on a two is absolutely ham fisted and inaccurate with the enormous range of AC's of different types of mobs and again, playstyle. If I like to wait for someone to get aggro and always be flanking, I'm gonna hit and crit more against anything that I don't auto hit. If I grab aggro and keep it everytime, I may hit less.

Sometimes boiling things down to their simplest form is useful for certain comparisons, but I find most of the math on this forum about DPS to be highly erroneous most of the time.

[jakeelala]

not really. Base Damage, Crit Range, and Critical Multiplier should be the factors that go into balancing one weapon against another. not rate of attack. You dont really believe the devs Slowed down the Falchion annimation to reduce its damage output do you?

PS: the fact that you wrote this tells me that you have enormous gaps in your understanding of calculating average rates of damage in DDO.

Base Damage, Crit Range, and Multiplier are all factors, HOWEVER the rate at which you swing them is of critical importance, for a reason you yourself pointed out just a few posts above, which is that ceteris paribus there is no round in DDO and some things swing faster, therefore having higher average damage over time.

it doesnt matter if the devs meant anything or not, if a weapon swings faster or slower, that makes it's average output different than another weapon.