pali and extend...

[grimlock30]

Just putting this out there. What is the reasoning behind many pali builds having extend (besides that spells last longer)? Could this not be avoided buy having a sp item on, and casting spells twice?

[Do'Urden]

Smart*** answer: Level a paladin to end game and you'll soon find out why.

Nice answer: Divine Favor is invaluable and re-casting it every minute in addition to all the other short duration buffs a paladin needs to keep going is a ROYAL PITA. Same for Prayer, etc. Basically, it cuts down on your button mashing.

I have 2 Paladins...one with and one without Extend (due to feat shortage). It makes a really big difference in the PITA factor.

[grimlock30]

Thats what i thought. as i'm leveling up my pali now i want to carefully consider each feat sellection..(extend and toughness are both in high demand on my build) exend for the sweet high lvl dps, and toughness (as my con is 12 to start)

[artvan_delet]

Extend is a must now. There are just too many clicks for a paladin, so extended zeal and DF are a must.
They really need to fix the duration of Divine Favor, Divine Righteousness and Divine Might.
I find extended prayer to be very useful. I raid alot, and i keep the group prayered as much as possible.

[Zenako]

Zeal is not so bad, since it lasts longer, but DF is a PITA.

Would be nice if when you toggled the DM you could enter a number for how many you want to burn in sequence. Or be able to select DM from a pull down menu (like a Resist Spell) and be able to hotbar 1X, 2X, 3x, 4X or 5X DM to put on the Hotbar (with a little NX number on it. For some encounters 1x is enough. For others, being able to use a 5X and forget about it would be very nice. With a HIGH CHA Paly I have a lot of uses, and would actually be able to use a 10X (and have some left over) if it was available too.

The problem comes in that prior to your first swing, you have 3 or more quick short duration things to toggle or cast before you enter the fray, and in some cases the fight might almost be over (just in time to Smite for the win...).

[sephiroth1084]

The other big deal is spellcasting's interaction with Combat Expertise, which many paladins have. It becomes very frustrating to cast a spell, bring up CE (losing a few seconds of the spell's duration), fight for about 45-50 seconds, and then have to recast the spell, losing the AC from CE for a few hits, recasting the spell, and bringing CE back up. Changing this to 2 minutes makes it much more manageable, since there are very few combats that last more than 2 min., while many last more than 1.

Additionally, I find that DF right before a fight will likely last for just that fight, and if, for whatever reason, someone has to stop the group suddenly before heading in (someone needs a buff still, someone has to switch an item around, or whatever), you lose DF before the fight even starts, while Extend lets you buff before a fight and still have the spell up by the end, and sometimes for more than 1 fight.

Look at Shroud 4--Harry comes in to fight for a little less than 2 minutes. Without Extend, a paladin would have to cast DF and Zeal twice from the time the devils drop to the time Harry leaves (if you're DPSing the gnolls, which I find to be much faster than waiting for a vorpal, and about equivalent to wounding them). With Extend, one may cast DF while running to the gnolls he's supposed to take care of, kill them, and work on Harry for 20 SP.

[Zenako]

Zeal from a level 16 Paladin should last 2 minutes (120 seconds = 24 + 6/level)
DF is a one minute duration period, independant of level.
DM is one minute per toggle.
Reclick CE (or PA IIRC)

[Gum]

Just putting this out there. What is the reasoning behind many pali builds having extend (besides that spells last longer)? Could this not be avoided buy having a sp item on, and casting spells twice?

From one pally to another, I say please take my word and grab extend. It will save your keyboard, fingers, wrist, brain, and sanity end game. End game is so much more busy in terms of the fights we encounter, and that extra clicking, over time, believe it or not, is gonna make a big difference when you could just click once and be done with it for 2-4 minutes. It's a must for a Paladin imo.

[jakeelala]

im over extend on my TWF drow pallly (14/2monk). For me it's because I run out of SP's WAAY too fast with extend up, I can keep up more buffs for a longer time if without extend (i had it and hated it). Here's why: most fights with a good party just dont last more than a minute so the extra time is wasted on those buffs with extend running to the next fight, where you have to recast anyway.

I respectfully disagree with Gum and others. The only reason I might change my mind was if i ran around with CE, which I don't.

[query]

I just cast (extended) first, then pop CE back on...still a PITA when they run out extended or not.

And if you don't have it yet, get it ASAP when that alleged Mod 9 is released. You know, the level that is divided by 3

[Junts]

im over extend on my TWF drow pallly (14/2monk). For me it's because I run out of SP's WAAY too fast with extend up, I can keep up more buffs for a longer time if without extend (i had it and hated it). Here's why: most fights with a good party just dont last more than a minute so the extra time is wasted on those buffs with extend running to the next fight, where you have to recast anyway.

I respectfully disagree with Gum and others. The only reason I might change my mind was if i ran around with CE, which I don't.

for this to be true there would need to be a gap of over a minute between fights for zeal; zeal w/o extend lasts 120seconds; with, 240: you get 120 seconds for 10 more sp, and it is therefore almost always more sp efficient to extend zeal than not extend it.

[Desteria]

It;s nice for zeal because if your DS constantly keeping DF up, mbay buffing a few resist on yourself maby on another few people even 600+ SP can vanish in short order Zeal is cheaper to kepe up with extend, DF breaks even.

Also the PITA factor is HUGE.

Also IF you want to use madstoen boot clickies for maxign out DPS, you NEED extend to make DF last 2 mins that you can't recast it for.

[Aaxeyu]

Extend is a must if you have CE. Recasting DF every minute is annoying.

DM doesn't break CE so while its still annoying to cast that every minute it's not as bad as DF.

Paladin buffs duration:
Dm~4min
DF-2min
DM-1min

I wish they give all buffs the same duration.

[grimlock30]

thanks for the info guys! now to get to lvl 6 to pick it up

[Memnir]

I picked up Extend on my Pali, and have loved it. Fully recommended.

[Zenako]

Ultimately the decsion comes down to what is more important to you.

Some ease in pumping up for a fight and keeping it up, or the benefit of whatever other feat you might take.

That tradeoff may well change as you level and the fights you are in evolve. Taking it right away at level 6 might be a bit soon, since some of those spells mentioned are higher level ones that you will not be casting for a while, but will all the time once capped. At lower levels more time tends to be spent between fights since the healing is a lot slower (no mass spells or HEALs post fight) so even with extend you will probably end up wasting a lot of the extra duration before you get to the next fight and the group wades in.

Useful feat - sure, but probably not as useful at level 6. DF is a flat 1 min duration so your level has no bearing on it, unlike spells like Zeal (much higher level to cast.)

[Wizzly_Bear]

read a few of these posts and i just gotta say these pally players are just plain lazy. theyre talking about recasting being a pita, like pressing a button is a chore.

however, extend is highly recommended as without it your dps drops in raids. when you fight 1 enemy for longer than a minute you lose dps by having to stop and cast everytime they expire, especially if you get subjected to a failed concetration check.

get extend.

[Djimonte]

A paladin is a buff machine and can get quite cumbersome to be button mashing all the time I have two paladins both 16 level.
It has been my experience that alot of monsters strip you of all your buffs right off the bat.
While I use my buffs I would use my feats for more practical applications than extend since it can be very situational.
Paladins are tough, hard to be killed, and can put a hurting on any monster around them without much trouble. Just keep in mind one thing Paladins are the guardians and protectors of the weaker fighter classes and they need our auras to defend them while we maintain damage to the evil mobs that come to destroy stormreach.
P.s. when i get back from puerto rico I really really would like to set up a all paladin shroud

[Balkas]

Don't forget that you'll be mashing your Divine Sacrifice button every 3 seconds also .