Monk PrE Speculation: Henshin Mystic

[Borror0]

A few months ago Eladrin said that the monk PrE's were:

Henshin Mystic, Shintao Monk, Ninja Spy

Well, I was bored and the forums are boring lately so I figured I might have some fun trying to come up with some PrE's.

Before I go, I want to mention two things. First, I have never played a monk to cap so some of these may need tweaking for how powerful they are. If so, please apologize my ignorance. I went with the knowledge I have from playing it at lower levels and reading about it. Secondly, I assume that monks won't be 'fixed' through PrE's but rather by improving their elemental stances and finishing moves so avoid the "Monks will still suck" comments.

I already know that.

In this thread, I will present my version of the henshin mystic. Ninja spy and Shintao monk will posted in separate threads.

Henshin Mystic:
Henshin mystics are members of a monastic order that teaches what they consider a great mystery of the universe : that humanity is capable of a transformation (henshin) into divinity. Their training and discipline is aimed toward the ultimate perfection not only of themselves, but of all humanity. They believe this perfection is the future of the world and of humanity, and this belief fills them with a hopeful peace.

Most of a henshin mystic's power come from his riddles which are, in PnP, they are spell-like abilities with limited uses per day. Since DDO monks have Ki, I found interesting to make them cost ki rather than being limited per day. In in Oriental Adventures, most (but not all) of henshin mystics' riddles are elemental based. Since most interesting riddles I had came up with where positive or negative I went for the opposition between the two.

If I was to summarize the henshin mystic PrE in a few words, I would say they are the spell casting monks.

Henshin Mystic I
Prereqs: Level 6 Monk, Disciple of Puddles, Monk Wisdom I and either of Way of the Patient Tortoise II or Monk Concentration II
Cost: 4 AP
Benefit: Your training and discipline has bring you closer to the ultimate perfection. This prestige enhancement increases the length of your finishing moves by 25% and the DC to resist them by +1, increases your Concentration skill by +2, grants you blindness immunity and the ability to use both Riddle of Freedom and Riddle of Control.

Riddle of Freedom:
Cost: 30 Ki
Benefit: This spell enables an ally to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that normally impedes movement, such as paralysis, entanglement, or solid fog.

Riddle of Control:
Cost: 30 Ki
Benefit: An enemy monster is charmed and will fight as a trusted friend and ally. Charmed monsters get additional saves every 3d6+12 seconds. A successful Will save negates this effect.

Basically, Charm Monster and Freedom of Movements. The DC of each riddle is 10 + Half Monk Level + Wisdom mod. I have no idea if the Ki costs for these ones (and the other ones) are too high or too low when reaching higher levels so opinions are welcomed.

Henshin Mystic II
Prereqs: Level 12 Monk, Adept of Rain, Monk Wisdom III and either of Way of the Patient Tortoise III or Monk Concentration III
Cost: 2 AP
Benefit: Your training and discipline has bring you closer to the ultimate perfection. This prestige enhancement increases the length of your finishing moves by an additional 25% and the DC to resist them by +1, increases your Concentration skill by an additional +2, grants you True Seeing and the ability to use both Riddle of Health and Riddle of Void.

Riddle of Restoration:
Cost: 60 Ki
Benefit: Channels powerful positive energy into a target to wipe away injury and afflictions, restore 10 hit points per caster level (max 150hp), and remove ability damage and the conditions blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, and poisoned.

Riddle of Destruction:
Cost: 60 Ki
Benefit: A black ray of crackling negative energy suppresses the life force of any living creature it strikes, granting an enemy 1d4 negative levels.

Basically, Heal and Enervation.

Henshin Mystic III
Prereqs: Level 18 Monk, Master of the Sea and either of Way of the Patient Tortoise IV or Monk Concentration IV
Cost: 2 AP
Benefit:Your training and discipline has bring you closer to the ultimate perfection. This prestige enhancement increases the length of your finishing moves by an additional 25% and the DC to resist them by +1, increases your Concentration skill by an additional +2, grants you immunity to knockdown effects and the ability to use both Riddle of Life and Riddle of Death.

Riddle of Life:
Cost: 90 Ki
Benefit: Resurrects the target, restores all of the target's hit points, and preserves current spell points.

Riddle of Death:
Cost: 90 Ki
Benefit: A terrible scream kills creatures who hear it. A successful Fortitude save negates this effect.

You read that right! That's True Resurrection and Wail of the Banshee. Hopefully the cost is high enough to prevent this from being overpowered or overshadowing true spell casting classes. Since the save is lower than a sorcerers' or a wizards', I assume it should not be too problematic.

[wiglin]

The DC to land finishers doesn't need to be raised since they only work on trash mobs. Stunning Fist and QP could us a bump though so we don't need 30+ wis to land with any type of reliability.

Also the monk buffs need to be a circumstance bonus so they stack with other buffs.

[Inspire]

The Ap cost for this line is significantly less than the other PrE's you mentioned. I think the universal perfection means they are in tune with all aspects of the universe so IMO a good idea to emphasize this though would make the Henshin Mystic require all the first tier elemental stances;

Henshin Mystic I:
Cost: 4Ap
Prereq: Level 6 Monk, Disciple of Pebbles/Breezes/Puddles/Candles, Monk Wisdom I, and either of Monk Concentration II or Way of the Patient Tortoise II.

Also concerning Henshin Mystic I, I think Riddle of Freedom and Riddle of Restoration should be switched(Restoration to Henshin Mystic I and Freedom to Henshin Mystic II) and Riddle of Restoration changed. My reasoning behind this is that Freedom of Movement is a very powerful spell to be given out at level 6 as most casters dont aquire it untill level 9-12 anyways. Restoration should be changed because Monks can already self heal to full health, they dont need another boost to this IMO. Thus;

Riddle of Restoration:
Cost: 30 Ki
Benefit: Panacea: Channels powerful positive energy into a target to wipe away afflictions. Against undead this spell will damage 1d8 hit points +1 per caster level (max +20) Undead who make a successful Will save reduce the damage by half.

Continued from the idea that Henshin Mystics seek perfection in all aspects of the universe Henshin Mystic II IMO should have Restoring the Balance, The Recpetive Earth, Difficulty at the Beggining, and Lifting the Veil as a Prereq. Henshin Mystic III could have Rise of the Pheonix as a Prereq aswell.

Riddle of Life:
Cost: 100 Ki, 100Hps

Same benefit as what you stated but if Rise of the Pheonix has such a cripling cost I think this should follow suit.

[Angelus_dead]

Riddle of Freedom:

Like other monk buffs, should probably be AOE but short duration, making the effect distinct from FOM cast by a cleric or ranger.

Speaking of rangers, I liked my suggestion to allow Henshin Mystic to cast a natural armor buff (once again, the duration would be shorter than from a ranger, so you'd have to stick around the monk if you want the bonus)

Riddle of Control:

Being vague here:
I'd bump an actual Charm Monster to higher than level 6, because it's weird for the monk to get it so much sooner than a wizard could. In its place, I'd allow a Hypnotism spell at tier1.

And when he did get Charm Monster, it would be a melee attack. Also the enervate could be melee too.

Riddle of Restoration:

Too different from the theme of the D&D class.

Also you're missing several key features of the D&D class: resist energy, prot energy, and Fire Shield.

[Brother_Solar]

Continued from the idea that Henshin Mystics seek perfection in all aspects of the universe Henshin Mystic II IMO should have Restoring the Balance, The Recpetive Earth, Difficulty at the Beggining, and Lifting the Veil as a Prereq. Henshin Mystic III could have Rise of the Pheonix as a Prereq aswell.

While Henshin Mystic is the most appealing PrE to me, this requirement would make it completely undesirable.

Rather, I would advocate the requirement of the second tier of all of the elemental stances for Henshin Mystic II, then the requirement of the third tier of all of the elemental stances for Henshin Mystic III (though that is more difficult to achieve, as it would require at least one +2 Tome or two +1 Tomes for 28 point builds, even if they put all of their points in the right places). Perhaps the requirement of Mastery of 3 out of 4 would not be out of the question.

This would also lend itself more towards the Energy Resistance A_D mentions.

[Borror0]

Like other monk buffs, should probably be AOE but short duration

Good point.

I'd bump an actual Charm Monster to higher than level 6, because it's weird for the monk to get it so much sooner than a wizard could.

Wizards get Charm Monster at level 7 and, at level 6-7, it's much harder it's much harder to land Riddle of Control than it would be for the wizard to land Charm Monster.

And when he did get Charm Monster, it would be a melee attack. Also the enervate could be melee too.

Good point.

Also you're missing several key features of the D&D class: resist energy, prot energy, and Fire Shield.

Well, I was not sure if copying all the PrC's ability was a good idea (if they ever wanted to add the PrC to DDO).

...and I was scared to overload the PrE with abilities too.

[Inspire]

While Henshin Mystic is the most appealing PrE to me, this requirement would make it completely undesirable.

Rather, I would advocate the requirement of the second tier of all of the elemental stances for Henshin Mystic II, then the requirement of the third tier of all of the elemental stances for Henshin Mystic III (though that is more difficult to achieve, as it would require at least one +2 Tome or two +1 Tomes for 28 point builds, even if they put all of their points in the right places). Perhaps the requirement of Mastery of 3 out of 4 would not be out of the question.

I disagree, becauce if Rise of the Pheonix was a prereq you would need these four enhancements. Also all of the 2nd and 3rd tier PrE's would be a much bigger waste, both Ap and usefulness wise, than the ones I mentioned.

Not everyone would have access to +1 or +2 tomes either.

[Angelus_dead]

If I was to summarize the henshin mystic PrE in a few words, I would say they are the spell casting monks.

It's tempting to follow that theme and throw in some explicit synergy with arcane caster classes, like +50 spellpoints per tier. However, to make that at all effective (instead of simply a trap to disqualify people from capstones) it would have to get really complicated, and get into the realm of abilities omitted from DDO like Practiced Spellcaster and even Tashalatora.

Alternatively, if Henshin got +1 umd per tier... that's a little funny, but it would have some attractive use.

[Brother_Solar]

I disagree, becauce if Rise of the Pheonix was a prereq you would need these four enhancements. Also all of the 2nd and 3rd tier PrE's would be a much bigger waste, both Ap and usefulness wise, than the ones I mentioned.

Not everyone would have access to +1 or +2 tomes either.

I regard all four of the prerequisites to Rise of the Pheonix to be complete wastes of AP. All of the maladies removed by those abilities can also be removed by potions (those potions can all be used on others if you target them before clicking the potion). The only benefit that cannot be duplicated by a potion is the resurrection ability, which is ridiculously expensive to utilize (especially when Resurrection clickable items and UMD skilled characters have become fairly common).

I don't know about other monk players, but I utilize all four stances and strikes.
Air stance + wounding kamas, greater defense, or other proc dependent weapons.
Water stance + Stunning Fist/Quivering Palm, Wholeness of Body, or trap running.
Fire stance for Ki generation (I subscribe to the Way of the Clever Monkey)
Earth stance for damage reduction and blocking when called for. Earth is also the most universally useful Ki strike.

I realize that not everyone will play the way I do, but I enjoy the versatility offered by my play style.

Additionally, all of the Rise of the Pheonix prerequisites require that a monk take the “Fists of Light” enhancement. There is no requirement for the Henshin Mystic in regards to light or dark leanings, only the pursuit of divinity. In DDO, that could be Neutral Divinity or Good Divinity, but it seems arbitrary to relegate this PrE to a single path when either is applicable.

I do agree that too much AP is used to upgrade all four elemental paths though, you would not have enough left over for the PrE. How about two out of four?

[Zuldar]

The Ap cost for this line is significantly less than the other PrE's you mentioned. I think the universal perfection means they are in tune with all aspects of the universe so IMO a good idea to emphasize this though would make the Henshin Mystic require all the first tier elemental stances;

Henshin Mystic I:
Cost: 4Ap
Prereq: Level 6 Monk, Disciple of Pebbles/Breezes/Puddles/Candles, Monk Wisdom I, and either of Monk Concentration II or Way of the Patient Tortoise II.

Also concerning Henshin Mystic I, I think Riddle of Freedom and Riddle of Restoration should be switched(Restoration to Henshin Mystic I and Freedom to Henshin Mystic II) and Riddle of Restoration changed. My reasoning behind this is that Freedom of Movement is a very powerful spell to be given out at level 6 as most casters dont aquire it untill level 9-12 anyways. Restoration should be changed because Monks can already self heal to full health, they dont need another boost to this IMO. Thus;

Riddle of Restoration:
Cost: 30 Ki
Benefit: Panacea: Channels powerful positive energy into a target to wipe away afflictions. Against undead this spell will damage 1d8 hit points +1 per caster level (max +20) Undead who make a successful Will save reduce the damage by half.

Continued from the idea that Henshin Mystics seek perfection in all aspects of the universe Henshin Mystic II IMO should have Restoring the Balance, The Recpetive Earth, Difficulty at the Beggining, and Lifting the Veil as a Prereq. Henshin Mystic III could have Rise of the Pheonix as a Prereq aswell.

Riddle of Life:
Cost: 100 Ki, 100Hps

Same benefit as what you stated but if Rise of the Pheonix has such a cripling cost I think this should follow suit.

Clerics can use freedom of movement scrolls at level 5, so as long as the duration was short like the other buffs (1minute plus any extras) it would be fine. I agree panacea is probably a better choice then heal, unless of couse the heal ability was given a significant cooldown.

[GlassCannon]

The DC to land finishers doesn't need to be raised since they only work on trash mobs. Stunning Fist and QP could us a bump though so we don't need 30+ wis to land with any type of reliability.

Also the monk buffs need to be a circumstance bonus so they stack with other buffs.

Unbalancing Strike works on Raid Bosses, if they fail the save. It's tremendously useful to the Rogue in group(and everyone with any ranks or items that promote Sneak Attack damage).

If something like this is put in for a High AC Ocean WIS Monk, comparable things should be put in for Moderate AC DPS Wind monks, Zero AC DPS Fire Monks, High AC Mountain Monks(why...?), and Fighters... and BraBarians, and Sirrocorors, and Wizzords, and Clerricks, and meaty little meatwads like this one:


He's an "HP Tank".

[wiglin]

Unbalancing Strike works on Raid Bosses, if they fail the save. It's tremendously useful to the Rogue in group(and everyone with any ranks or items that promote Sneak Attack damage).

If something like this is put in for a High AC Ocean WIS Monk, comparable things should be put in for Moderate AC DPS Wind monks, Zero AC DPS Fire Monks, High AC Mountain Monks(why...?), and Fighters... and BraBarians, and Sirrocorors, and Wizzords, and Clerricks, and meaty little meatwads like this one:


He's an "HP Tank".

Never thought of unbalancing strike as a finisher, since it is done as long as you have ki. You do not have to play ddo street fighter to open it up as a move.

Not sure what you mean by your second paragraph. I didn't ask for anything to be put in for ocean monks. If you are regarding changing the dc for SF and QP, that would help all monks. Which is the idea. As it stands the high wis ocean monk can still have issues with these two abilities landing. With a +9 to my wisdom, I still see the save symbol more than I would like, and that is on normal while farming essences. Changing the DC to monk level, or allow weighted to effect the dc would hardly be game breaking. Especially when you can just dual vorpal in a hasted wind stance most of the time anyway.

[Aesop]

You could also go with a different format for these.

3 tiers of primary effects and then peripheral abilities. Like the Arcane Archer get Arrow Enhancement a Henshin Mystic could gain Riddle Enhancements.

They could even be tiered effects with more powerful effects having a Higher Requirement and/or AP cost. This would allow for more and varied effects without being too powerful for little cost.


Just a thought


Aesop

[Monkey_Archer]

I agree with Inspire about Switching riddle of restoration and Freedom around and making it panacea.

Other then that it pretty much looks good.....

Oh yeah.... Wail of the banshee......

Hmmm... heres a joke....

1 Henshin Mystic and 100 Ninja spies walk into a bar....

[Delacroix21]

This is my favorite of your PRCs by FAR! However the ki costs are insane. We only gain 14 more concentration at level 20, and it will be very very hard to generate that kind of ki except during boss fights (unless you only stay in fire stance and never use ANY strikes).


The monk needs more ways to use his ki, and better ways then lousy 2d6 electrical strikes. This PRC seems to solve that. =)


EDIT
Does this mean I will have to wait at least 6 months to use this PrCs? =(

[Drfirewater79]

The DC to land finishers doesn't need to be raised since they only work on trash mobs. Stunning Fist and QP could us a bump though so we don't need 30+ wis to land with any type of reliability.

Also the monk buffs need to be a circumstance bonus so they stack with other buffs.

but i think the whole point of being a mystic would support the need for uber high wis especially with the whole need to be water based (as it raises your wis bonus)

personally i would love it more if it was pre req positive/wind tortise myself but i am bias cause i use wind

[Chaosprism]

It's a wisdom monk orientation surely, given that ninja spy will be dexterity and shintao will be strength.

You could even see an ability that works like weapon finesse but uses your wisdom as the attack modifier instead of dexterity.
Also some alternate way to generate KI when in water stance (like whenever you make a save) would also be very useful.

All the riddles would be spell like, and they'd probably be more cleric like in nature (approaching divinity) any damage dealt by the riddles may possibly be LIGHT (divine) damage.

[Borror0]

Holy necro!

[Chaosprism]

I agree that henshin's would be spell like monks.

With their spell like abilities- riddles using a monk's KI to cast with.
Add to that the 4 elemental sides of DDO monks already.

To get the various riddles you'd need to have Henshin mystic and the appropriate Adept of X, Master of X, or Grandmaster of X

Henshin I:
Blindsight as a bonus feat: (need to add that to the game as a regular feat)

Riddle of Flaming Fingers: Adds 1d6 fire damage to any melee attack.
Riddle of Awareness (earth): Wild Instincts
Riddle of Interaction: (water) Suggestion. (high KI cost)
Riddle of Mobility (air): Uncanny Dodge (as rogue)



Henshin II:

Riddle of Summer: Fire Shield - Hot:
Riddle of Autumn: Root the mountain (become immobile, immune to knockdown, gain 10/- dr)
Riddle of Spring: Blur
Riddle of Winter: Fire Shield - Cold:


Henshin III:
Riddle of Vapours: Displacement
Riddle of Formations: Gorgon Breath (area of effect temporary petrification)
Riddle of Conflagration: Small spot firewall. (not a line)
Riddle of Icicles: Ice render Ice shards. (slipping and exploding)