The Sorcerer's Handbook: A Guide to Building and Playing Sorcerers

[Sabotage]

Heh, well...his barb should *also* be killed and rerolled as a dual-khopesh warforged, since, ya know, dwarven barbs are the fom4 (flavor of Mod 4).

[Junts]

Indeed. I call it the "racial primary stat boost trap."

In the hands of an exceptional player with great gear, that 1 extra dc can be a potent tool: but that's assuming you're getting 40/42 cha from it, that you have 2 shroud items, firestorm greaves, carry the fireshield spell, etc, and even with all those things, there's 2-3 quests where bringing even that drow sorc is a tremendously poor idea because he's still in danger of being one-shot at 250-260 hp; the 290 hp drow, though, is pretty ok, my human played fine before 20 shrouds and his 45 hp item and had 300 raged hp even (hes a 16 con build); a supreme top end drow is a fine character in good hands, the problem is that it requires ~80 raid completions to not be a deathtrap, and is still inferior for some content.

[ChaelaAnne]

The reality a lot of people have a problem with on ddo is that any caster that can't reliably (eg repair spells or nofail heal scrolls) heal itself is about 20% as useful to a group as one that can do those things, since ones that can't need constant babysitting when they pull aggro. Getting umd done is more important than getting one's dcs done or any other form of eq, because it is alone the difference between a caster being easy and fun to play and a caster being a tremendous frustration where you constnatly feel like you are almost dead and are running for your life waiting for someone to heal you.

Being drow and having 240 hp instead of 360 just makes that all the more difficult, since you only have 2/3 as many hp to stay alive -with-. If you practice a lot and eq well and can self-heal, its not that big a deal, but for someone new to playing a caster, drow is by far the least-forgiving and most-frustrating race.

STOP TALKING ABOUT ME!!!!

Be nice to me Jaer... dang it!!

[Junts]

STOP TALKING ABOUT ME!!!!

Be nice to me Jaer... dang it!!

Actually I'm not; you play your sorceror fine, especially given you can't reliably self-heal yet and stuff.

There are many, many times worse drow sorcerors than Yzabelle, and my human had a lot of the same issues you've been having before I got my umd done; a caster that can't self heal is really miserably not-fun to play, imo, and I almost quit galaerion before I got his umd done.

[Rhymer25]

The Sorcerer's Handbook: A Guide to Building and Playing Sorcerers
By: Aspenor the Beholder Slayer

Stat allocation
A sorcerer will almost always want to max his charisma, unless you are building a melee/sorcerer hybrid. This thread is not going to discuss these hybrids. The second most important stat is constitution. Constitution governs the sorcerer's hit points and fortitude saves.

From a min/max OP perspective, these are the main two stats to be worried about. You can forget almost everything else.
- Strength: Strength gives bonuses to melee to-hit and damage. What kind of idiot full spellcaster hits anything with a weapon? The only use for strength to a sorcerer is to prevent being rendered helpless by strength damage. This can easily be avoided by drinking bull's strength potions at low levels, and wearing a strength item at the higher levels. Don't waste those precious stat points.
- Dexterity: Dexterity gives a sorcerer a higher armor class and higher reflex saves. However, beyond the lowest levels, the sorcerer is wasting his time by trying to have armor class and reflex saves. He has resistance and protection spells to make up for his clumsiness. He has stoneskin and displacement to make up for his lack of armor class. The ranged touch attack does not exist in DDO, thus making dexterity useless for all those ray spells.

1. You do not NEED to max out your Charisma. IMO it wastes too many stat points that you could use to balance out your other stats. However if you want that extra little umph on some of your spells go ahead and max it.

2. Why would you waste a item slot for strength? Or carry bull strength pots for that matter? Just put a couple points into strength (if you did not get that expensive max to your charisma you should have plenty of points to spare a few into strength).

3. Stoneskin, displacement, bull strength, and resistances can all be DISPELLED! I have seen countless posts and builds that take no heed of the unfortunate situation you find yourself in all too often in the high end game, NO BUFFS! eeek Now all you have are your stats and your sexy warforged immunities (and gear).

[Junts]

1. You do not NEED to max out your Charisma. IMO it wastes too many stat points that you could use to balance out your other stats. However if you want that extra little umph on some of your spells go ahead and max it.

2. Why would you waste a item slot for strength? Or carry bull strength pots for that matter? Just put a couple points into strength (if you did not get that expensive max to your charisma you should have plenty of points to spare a few into strength).

3. Stoneskin, displacement, bull strength, and resistances can all be DISPELLED! I have seen countless posts and builds that take no heed of the unfortunate situation you find yourself in all too often in the high end game, NO BUFFS! eeek Now all you have are your stats and your sexy warforged immunities (and gear).

If you don't max charisma/intelligence on a caster you deserve all the derision you recieve when people realize you're completely worthless.

[Borror0]

If you don't max charisma/intelligence on a caster you deserve all the derision you recieve when people realize you're completely worthless.

More importantly, the OP said min/max. Even if it's not required to play, it is strongly advised if you want to powergame.

Posts like his give me the impression that the poster was just waiting for an occasion to rant about X or Y and jumped on the first comment that could lead to his rant without looking totally off topic. Not that it is a conscious process, but it's still funny.

[Rhymer25]

If you don't max charisma/intelligence on a caster you deserve all the derision you recieve when people realize you're completely worthless.

Junts you make a very good argument! Do what I say or die! lol I say it again: you do not NEED to max Cha. Why? One person may ask. Because (this is the part that you support your statement) Cha helps with DC, you only need DC on a few spells and for the most part , high end mobs resist those spells anyway. I am not saying you do not need a high DC, I am saying it is not worth it to max it as I have field tested a sorc with max and a sorc w/o max and noticed no strong difference (Human with max and WF w/o max). As for INT I do not have a high level wiz so I will not comment on that. I really like your style tho Junts good work at being a troll.

[Aspenor]

1. You do not NEED to max out your Charisma. IMO it wastes too many stat points that you could use to balance out your other stats. However if you want that extra little umph on some of your spells go ahead and max it.

2. Why would you waste a item slot for strength? Or carry bull strength pots for that matter? Just put a couple points into strength (if you did not get that expensive max to your charisma you should have plenty of points to spare a few into strength).

3. Stoneskin, displacement, bull strength, and resistances can all be DISPELLED! I have seen countless posts and builds that take no heed of the unfortunate situation you find yourself in all too often in the high end game, NO BUFFS! eeek Now all you have are your stats and your sexy warforged immunities (and gear).

1. you also do not NEED to use the enhancement system. balancing stats is for noobs.

2. because those points could be better spent in something that matters, like charisma or skill points. see the above statement about balanced stats.

3. i don't see the point of your 3rd statement. sorry, but you have no clue what you're talking about.

[Junts]

Junts you make a very good argument! Do what I say or die! lol I say it again: you do not NEED to max Cha. Why? One person may ask. Because (this is the part that you support your statement) Cha helps with DC, you only need DC on a few spells and for the most part , high end mobs resist those spells anyway. I am not saying you do not need a high DC, I am saying it is not worth it to max it as I have field tested a sorc with max and a sorc w/o max and noticed no strong difference (Human with max and WF w/o max). As for INT I do not have a high level wiz so I will not comment on that. I really like your style tho Junts good work at being a troll.

No, really, go make a 14 str, 16 cha drow sorc or something, I'm sure you'll be very useful.

If you know which dc-based spells to cast at which mobs, they work just fine - using reflex against orthons or fort against casters works great, but if your dcs are good enough you can just finger the orthon if you want to .. 38-40 cha goes a long way.

[SimVerg]

If you don't max charisma/intelligence on a caster you deserve all the derision you recieve when people realize you're completely worthless.

Yeah Odd, stop being worthless.

[Junts]

Yeah Odd, stop being worthless.

Oddlived is not a pure caster! psh!

[Varis]

I'm back Aspenor!

Too long have the armored battle sorcerers been oppressed, too long have they been without a proper board warrior to defend their utility and viability!!!!

Before I put a paper weight on the capslock key and prepare to unleash the fury, I do want to wait for mod9. Level cap increases have always had an effect on mages and what could be considered an "optimal build" so I don't want to make this effort twice if I can avoid it


Can't wait to get this started

- Roa

[Aspenor]

I'm back Aspenor!

Too long have the armored battle sorcerers been oppressed, too long have they been without a proper board warrior to defend their utility and viability!!!!

Before I put a paper weight on the capslock key and prepare to unleash the fury, I do want to wait for mod9. Level cap increases have always had an effect on mages and what could be considered an "optimal build" so I don't want to make this effort twice if I can avoid it


Can't wait to get this started

- Roa

Good luck.

[Venar]

I also cannot believe that you favor Warforged, a race with a negative to CHA, over drow, for a class with only one need: CHA.

Warforged suffer from lower CHA.
Warforged suffer from Arcane spell failure.

What can they do?
1- self heal
So can any sorcs, it's called UMD

2- Have more hit points
If your sorc needs more then 300 HP, you play it wrong. Really.

The pro-WF use Arcane failure reducing AP. They use CON APs. They use thougness APs. They use Repair spells. And often have quicken.

Well, the drow sorc doesn't spend on all that, and thus has more AP for nukage enhancements, they dont waste spell slots on repairs, and they dont waste SP on self healing, and dont waste a feat on quicken. And they can have over 300 HP, which is plenty for a caster with half a brain.

Also, when Llamania went up, what did you see? Casters going waaaaaaa, waaaaaaa, the saves on mobs is too high, the DCs are too high, waaaaa, waaaaa.
Because they tough starting with lower CHA is cool. Drow have the highest CHA, and that is the most single usefull and important stat period. Best DC in the game.
The drow sorc will rule in Shavarath, because he can land spells.


300 HP is the watermark. Drow can get that. So why miss the best CHA in the game??

I will repeat it, if you need more then 300 HP on a sorc, learn to play the game.

[bandyman1]

Several misconceptions on your part Ven.

The most glaring being that this guide is designed for new players to the game, not 16th level casters with GS items.

I also cannot believe that you favor Warforged, a race with a negative to CHA, over drow, for a class with only one need: CHA.

Warforged suffer from lower CHA. 2 points lower.
Warforged suffer from Arcane spell failure. 5% in composite.

What can they do?
1- self heal Yep.
So can any sorcs, it's called UMD Not at low levels.

2- Have more hit points Yep.
If your sorc needs more then 300 HP, you play it wrong. Again, this is a beginners guide, not a 16th level max geared guide.

The pro-WF use Arcane failure reducing AP. Or they live with the 5%. They use CON APs. They use thougness APs. You DO realize that a WFed can have more HPs than a drow, without a single AP or feat spent here, correct? They use Repair spells. And often have quicken. A choice that not all make.

Well, the drow sorc doesn't spend on all that, and thus has more AP for nukage enhancements, they dont waste spell slots on repairs, Neither do some WFed. They rely on wands, and recon scrolls when high enough. The advantage being that they are auto success at all levels, without any gear grinding. and they dont waste SP on self healing Like I said before; Neither do some WFed., and dont waste a feat on quicken. Again; Neither do some WFed. Why? Because their concentration is higher than yours to begin with. And they can have over 300 HP, which is plenty for a caster with half a brain.

Also, when Llamania went up, what did you see? Casters going waaaaaaa, waaaaaaa, the saves on mobs is too high, the DCs are too high, waaaaa, waaaaa.
Because they tough starting with lower CHA is cool. Drow have the highest CHA, and that is the most single usefull and important stat period. Best DC in the game. You DO realize that a human can achieve the same DCs as a drow, right? At 20th level, the drow will regain 1 higher, but the addition of +4 tomes puts them right back here. And the human has an extra feat, and more HPs potential.
The drow sorc will rule in Shavarath, because he can land spells. Dude, I don't think many peeps are worried about a neg 1.


300 HP is the watermark. Drow can get that. So why miss the best CHA in the game??

I will repeat it, if you need more then 300 HP on a sorc, learn to play the game.

My own caster is a drow. But then again, I know most quests blindfoled, and I have no problems getting my hands on the best gear in the game.

A beginner can't do that.

[Venar]

No misconceptions at all.
If you read the thread, people arguing for WF HPs do list all the extra CON and toughness, as if they were free, just like you state that a human can get the same CHA, as if it was free.
It all cost APs. Nothing is free. And i fail to see you point about not beeing for 16s.
It`s all relative. You dont need more HP then 14 starting con if you play correctly.

I am not saying that HP is not important for a sorc, on the contrary, the more the better, but not at the cost of the primary stat. A sorc is a CHA machine, and HP comes second. The only argument for WF is if you place HP before CHA, and i can only disagree with that.

[bandyman1]

No misconceptions at all.
If you read the thread, people arguing for WF HPs do list all the extra CON and toughness, as if they were free, But they don't need them to have higher HPs than a drow, and the +2 Con is free.. just like you state that a human can get the same CHA, as if it was free.
It all cost APs. Except for the whole part about you spending that many APs on worthless enhancements in order to make the pre-req points spent for the enhancements that you do want, whereas the human can actually spend those points on something useful. So they are free. Nothing is free. And i fail to see you point about not beeing for 16s. It's a guide designed for begining players to build sorcs. No one with mounds of in-game sorc knowledge needs such a guilde. That's my point. Beginning players do not have the +2 tomes, and gear you need to reach 300+ hps on a drow, nor do they have the resourses for the UMD gear you need to auto-succeed on a heal scroll.
It`s all relative. You dont need more HP then 14 starting con if you play correctly. Like I said; My own caster is a 300+ HP drow that started with a 14 Con, so I agree with you. But, I'm far from a beginner to casters.

I am not saying that HP is not important for a sorc, on the contrary, the more the better, but not at the cost of the primary stat. A sorc is a CHA machine, and HP comes second. The only argument for WF is if you place HP before CHA, and i can only disagree with that. For a newbie; Easy self healing and more hitpoints can be far more useful than +1 DC. Sorry bro .

In Red.

[Venar]

Must be different experiences then.
I tend to list bad casters. I admit i have a low "list-treshold".
I will list caster who run out of SP, who nuke for no reason, who have webs that can't hold a devil, who can't break a Trog SR, who can't debuff an elite pit fiend, etc...

The vast majority are WFs. I think the +1 DC and the extra APs for more Spell Pen is important. Maybe WF sorc are just overconfidant and dont learn to be careful.

To me, making a WF sorc is like making a Halfling Barbarian. Doable, viable, and fun, yes. But definitly not the prior choice.

As for this beeing a guide... That -2 CHA is definitly HUGE at low levels. A lot more then at 16. Lower Dc and lower HP and spell failure? Yuk Yuk Yuk.

[Aspenor]

I also cannot believe that you favor Warforged, a race with a negative to CHA, over drow, for a class with only one need: CHA.

Warforged suffer from lower CHA.
Warforged suffer from Arcane spell failure.

What can they do?
1- self heal
So can any sorcs, it's called UMD

2- Have more hit points
If your sorc needs more then 300 HP, you play it wrong. Really.

The pro-WF use Arcane failure reducing AP. They use CON APs. They use thougness APs. They use Repair spells. And often have quicken.

Well, the drow sorc doesn't spend on all that, and thus has more AP for nukage enhancements, they dont waste spell slots on repairs, and they dont waste SP on self healing, and dont waste a feat on quicken. And they can have over 300 HP, which is plenty for a caster with half a brain.

Also, when Llamania went up, what did you see? Casters going waaaaaaa, waaaaaaa, the saves on mobs is too high, the DCs are too high, waaaaa, waaaaa.
Because they tough starting with lower CHA is cool. Drow have the highest CHA, and that is the most single usefull and important stat period. Best DC in the game.
The drow sorc will rule in Shavarath, because he can land spells.


300 HP is the watermark. Drow can get that. So why miss the best CHA in the game??

I will repeat it, if you need more then 300 HP on a sorc, learn to play the game.

I'm pretty sure the intent of the thread went way over your head.

Using Heal scrolls is drastically worse than having arcane powered self-healing. If you can't fathom why, learn to play the game.

No misconceptions at all.
If you read the thread, people arguing for WF HPs do list all the extra CON and toughness, as if they were free, just like you state that a human can get the same CHA, as if it was free.
It all cost APs. Nothing is free. And i fail to see you point about not beeing for 16s.
It`s all relative. You dont need more HP then 14 starting con if you play correctly.

I am not saying that HP is not important for a sorc, on the contrary, the more the better, but not at the cost of the primary stat. A sorc is a CHA machine, and HP comes second. The only argument for WF is if you place HP before CHA, and i can only disagree with that.

You can play a friggin' halfling sorc if you play correctly. It doesn't matter in that case. Again, the intent of the thread went way over your head.

Must be different experiences then.
I tend to list bad casters. I admit i have a low "list-treshold".
I will list caster who run out of SP, who nuke for no reason, who have webs that can't hold a devil, who can't break a Trog SR, who can't debuff an elite pit fiend, etc...

The vast majority are WFs. I think the +1 DC and the extra APs for more Spell Pen is important. Maybe WF sorc are just overconfidant and dont learn to be careful.

To me, making a WF sorc is like making a Halfling Barbarian. Doable, viable, and fun, yes. But definitly not the prior choice.

As for this beeing a guide... That -2 CHA is definitly HUGE at low levels. A lot more then at 16. Lower Dc and lower HP and spell failure? Yuk Yuk Yuk.

Spell failure? Are you joking? It's gone just a few AP into the game. It's a non-issue. If you actually know how to play the game, the lower DC doesn't matter because you know how to tactically target spells.

If you can't figure it out, you're missing the intent of the thread.