The Sorcerer's Handbook: A Guide to Building and Playing Sorcerers

[Riekan]

We've been over this earlier in the thread, but, alright, here I'll go it again.

Drow are a 28 point build and if you max your charisma there are only enough remaining build points to take constitution to 14; that is 4 constitution behind a human and 6 behind a warforged. If drow were 32s, a: drow would be good for more things.

If you do the math, Drow are 32 point builds. That's the whole point. The difference is you don't decide where to put the extra 4 points, 2 go to Int and 2 go to Cha.

I do, however, agree that you need a plan to help make up for the lower constitution.

[Aspenor]

Pfft. Pathetic for someone trying to call themselves qualified to make a "handbook"

Drow are the best sorcerer race. Period. To say theres not even worthwhile shows a complete lack of knowledge on the class.

Fact of the matter is EVERY race is viable. Drow is just the best.

Too squishy?? Get a grip. In the current game, a Drow Sorc can reach over 300 hitpoints without taking the toughness feat. Take the toughness feat in mod9, and you netting well over 400. Not to mention they are the easiest race to hit a 39 umd on pure build, for 100% heal scroll usage.

And you don't even need that many hitpoints. My sorc melee's the pitfiend with 222 hitpoints, and has not died on his last 20 runs.

Far as I'm concerned, Drow are the toughess sorc race 2nd only to warforged thanks to the heal scroll usage. -16 hitpoints versus a Human does not make a race useless, ya madman.

Here's what your opinion means to me.

[]

Yet another drow sorc player that got his panties in a twist because he disagrees with me...darn. Unfortunately, you should have been a 32 point warforged instead. Somebody has never heard of Character Optimization before.

[Fennario]

Drow are the best sorcerer race. Period.

While this statement is just plain out laughable, its nowhere near as funny as this next statement:

Far as I'm concerned, Drow are the toughess sorc race 2nd only to warforged thanks to the heal scroll usage. -16 hitpoints versus a Human does not make a race useless, ya madman.

You do realize that at level 20 pretty much any sorc is going to be able to hit 39 UMD with little problem.

And where do you get -16 hitpoints? What about at level 20? That's -20 hitpoints. A human can start with 4 more con than drow. That's -40 hitpoints. A human has an extra feat that he could use for toughness if he chooses. That's -62 hitpoints. A human can take an extra tier of toughness enhancements. That's -72 hitpoints. And a human also gets the break point advantage depending on future tomes and gear due to the human adaptablity enhancement. That's a possible -92 hitpoints.

92 is quite a bit more than 16 no?

[Aspenor]

While this statement is just plain out laughable, its nowhere near as funny as this next statement:



You do realize that at level 20 pretty much any sorc is going to be able to hit 39 UMD with little problem.

And where do you get -16 hitpoints? What about at level 20? That's -20 hitpoints. A human can start with 4 more con than drow. That's -40 hitpoints. A human has an extra feat that he could use for toughness if he chooses. That's -62 hitpoints. A human can take an extra tier of toughness enhancements. That's -72 hitpoints. And a human also gets the break point advantage depending on future tomes and gear due to the human adaptablity enhancement. That's a possible -92 hitpoints.

92 is quite a bit more than 16 no?

Furthermore, to open the Racial Toughness line you must have Toughness as a feat, which a drow, unfortunately for them, will soon only be able to open with an expended feat.

Warforged, on the other hand, need no Toughness feats or enhancements due to the Constitution bonuses, and humans have a free feat to spend for both the hit points it brings and also to open the enhancement line.

I'm also not sure why a sorcerer would melee in the Shroud. If it's not a gimp there should be more than enough spell points to go around for killing gnolls, controlling devils, and spamming polar ray like it's going out of style.

So tell the 222 hit pointer to reroll IRL, because his melee DPS is nothing compared to what he SHOULD be doing.

[Junts]

Furthermore, to open the Racial Toughness line you must have Toughness as a feat, which a drow, unfortunately for them, will soon only be able to open with an expended feat.

Warforged, on the other hand, need no Toughness feats or enhancements due to the Constitution bonuses, and humans have a free feat to spend for both the hit points it brings and also to open the enhancement line.

I'm also not sure why a sorcerer would melee in the Shroud. If it's not a gimp there should be more than enough spell points to go around for killing gnolls, controlling devils, and spamming polar ray like it's going out of style.

So tell the 222 hit pointer to reroll IRL, because his melee DPS is nothing compared to what he SHOULD be doing.

Shade and I have had this discussion previously, sorcerors are incapable of raid-useful dps. At least, in Shadeworld, where his barb does 100k damage per round to arraetrikos.

[Aspenor]

Shade and I have had this discussion previously, sorcerors are incapable of raid-useful dps. At least, in Shadeworld, where his barb does 100k damage per round to arraetrikos.

Heh, well...his barb should *also* be killed and rerolled as a dual-khopesh warforged, since, ya know, dwarven barbs are the fom4 (flavor of Mod 4).

[Borror0]

Heh, well...his barb should *also* be killed and rerolled as a dual-khopesh warforged, since, ya know, dwarven barbs are the fom4 (flavor of Mod 4).

He still thinks that his THF barbarian can out-DPS TWF barbarians and ranger...

He also think that rogues deal 10% of the DPS of a barbarian...

[Aspenor]

rogues deal 10% of the DPS of a barbarian...

while sleeping, maybe

[Borror0]

Better send that as a PM.

[Junts]

Better send that as a PM.

But we want to know!

[Borror0]

But we want to know!

Ask Aspenor to forward it to you. I didn't save it.

[Ann_Shadow]

The trouble with all the builds/arguments in this thread is that they assume a 32 pt build for warforged and other races.

If you have a 32 pt build, a "Handbook/Guide" is of questionable use because you've been playing a lot (to get the required favor) and can get the info on spell selection and feats in other ways.

I just made 400 favor and am the kind of person who needs a handbook/guide. This did not really help me very much.

Is a Warforged or Human with a 28pt build better than a drow? Because those are my options.

If you make a handbook; you are necessarily holding yourself out as an expert. A Handbook (the good ones at least) should assume and be geared towards those who do not know much about the class. Hence, their need to read a handbook.

While I appriciate the information, if you intend to make a Handbook, use 28pt builds. Or don't call it a "Handbook" but rather simply "My suggestions for making a sorcerer for advanced players."

[Nonan]

But, but, but... its a book and it is in my hand.... doesnt that make it a handbook?

Plus to paly a sorc with a 28 point build is insane.. play the gimp wizzie untill u get favor then turn to the real powa!!!!!!!

[drachine]

*will do lower levels when I get around to it*

End-Game Targets
Head: Minos Legens
Neck: Tier III Green Steel HP item / Talisman of the Silver Flame
Goggles: Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Goggles of Positive Energy (or Air) : Wizardry VI, +150 SP, +6 Charisma-based skills
Trinket: Head of Good Fortune / Litany of the Dead
Robe: Blue Dragonscale / Dragontouched (Resistance +5, Spell Penetration VIII, Glacial Assault)
Bracers: Bracers of the Glacier / Bracers of the Demonic Consort / Tier III Green Steel HP item
Gloves: Gloves of the Glacier / Seven-Fingered Gloves
Cloak: Stormreaver's Napkin
Belt: Belt of Brute Strength
Boots: Feather Falling Boots / Green Steel Boots of Useful Effect (Negative boots for immunity, fire absorption boots for Abbot, etc.)
Ring 1: Constitution +6
Ring 2: Swappable item slot depending on situational Need (blindness immunity, poison immunity, etc.)
Main Hand: Skiver / Superior Potency VI / Greater Potency VII
Off Hand: Supreme Tyrant Green Steel [Weapon] of Air (or Positive Energy) : +6 Charisma, +1 Charisma, +2 Charisma

my gear is not that much different but i like better
Head: Mineral II Helm, heavy fortification, protection +5, +6 to con skills (ie. concentration), +45 hit points
Neck: Talisman of the Silver Flame / Torc of Prince Raiyum de-II
Goggles: Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Goggles of Positive Energy (or Air) : Wizardry VI, +150 SP, +6 Charisma-based skills
Trinket: Pouch of Jerky / Head of Good Fortune / Litany of the Dead
Robe: Dragontouched (Resistance +5, Spell Penetration VIII, Greater Potency VII)
Bracers: Bracers of the Glacier / Tier III Green Steel Smoke Bracers, +6 dex skills (i sneak around and have 2 levels of rogue so this is good for me) (i made this before helm)
Gloves: Gloves of the Glacier / Seven-Fingered Gloves
Cloak: Stormreaver's Napkin
Belt: Lion-headed Belt Buckle, Immunity to Fear, Con +4, Str +4 (con hp difference is not that significant)
Boots: Firestorm Greaves / Kundarak Delving Boots
Ring 1: Charismatic Ring +6 (i swamp items in my hands a lot)
Ring 2: Ring of Thelis, i like the SR 22
Main Hand (non-damage): Spell Penetration VII (Torc has Gr Spell Pen VI)
Off Hand (non-damage): Supreme Tyrant Green Steel [Weapon] of Air (or Positive Energy) : +6 Charisma, +1 Charisma, +2 Charisma[/QUOTE]
Main Hand (damage): Superior Potency VI
Off Hand (damage): Greenblade

i like versatality changing things in my hands. i will often ghoul touch something that gets to close and kill it with puncturers or even enter melee with Dreamsplitter just to get spell points back from the Torc and i don't want to lose 9 charisma just cause i took my charisma item out of my hand.

[Junts]

The trouble with all the builds/arguments in this thread is that they assume a 32 pt build for warforged and other races.

If you have a 32 pt build, a "Handbook/Guide" is of questionable use because you've been playing a lot (to get the required favor) and can get the info on spell selection and feats in other ways.

I just made 400 favor and am the kind of person who needs a handbook/guide. This did not really help me very much.

Is a Warforged or Human with a 28pt build better than a drow? Because those are my options.

If you make a handbook; you are necessarily holding yourself out as an expert. A Handbook (the good ones at least) should assume and be geared towards those who do not know much about the class. Hence, their need to read a handbook.

While I appriciate the information, if you intend to make a Handbook, use 28pt builds. Or don't call it a "Handbook" but rather simply "My suggestions for making a sorcerer for advanced players."

28 and 32 point options are a good idea; its pretty possible to have 1750 favor on one character and not know that much about properly creating other race/classes, and many new players run one toon to 1750 before making anything else on purpose.

For a 28 pt player, I would strongly recommend human or wf because with the associated even less ddo play experience, you will be even less familiar with aggro management/etc required to be a survivable drow sorceror (being more fragile requires more skill to evade dying). A wf build with max cha and then all available points in con and leftovers in str or int will work out pretty welll, though it will be a few hp behind a 32 point version, it is what I'd recommend: as a player without 1750, you probably lack a capped toon / raid knowledge to acquire good umd gear in short order, and therefore wf is by far the best option because it gets you reliable self-healing (only achievable for the other races via a considerable amount of raiding).

[ChaelaAnne]

28 and 32 point options are a good idea; its pretty possible to have 1750 favor on one character and not know that much about properly creating other race/classes, and many new players run one toon to 1750 before making anything else on purpose.

For a 28 pt player, I would strongly recommend human or wf because with the associated even less ddo play experience, you will be even less familiar with aggro management/etc required to be a survivable drow sorceror (being more fragile requires more skill to evade dying). A wf build with max cha and then all available points in con and leftovers in str or int will work out pretty welll, though it will be a few hp behind a 32 point version, it is what I'd recommend: as a player without 1750, you probably lack a capped toon / raid knowledge to acquire good umd gear in short order, and therefore wf is by far the best option because it gets you reliable self-healing (only achievable for the other races via a considerable amount of raiding).

You make my head hurt.

[Aspenor]

The trouble with all the builds/arguments in this thread is that they assume a 32 pt build for warforged and other races.

If you have a 32 pt build, a "Handbook/Guide" is of questionable use because you've been playing a lot (to get the required favor) and can get the info on spell selection and feats in other ways.

I just made 400 favor and am the kind of person who needs a handbook/guide. This did not really help me very much.

Is a Warforged or Human with a 28pt build better than a drow? Because those are my options.

If you make a handbook; you are necessarily holding yourself out as an expert. A Handbook (the good ones at least) should assume and be geared towards those who do not know much about the class. Hence, their need to read a handbook.

While I appriciate the information, if you intend to make a Handbook, use 28pt builds. Or don't call it a "Handbook" but rather simply "My suggestions for making a sorcerer for advanced players."

I clearly stated that if you don't have access to 32 pt builds, drow may be the choice for you. That being said, 28 point humans and warforged are still extremely strong choices.

[Aspenor]

i like versatality changing things in my hands. i will often ghoul touch something that gets to close and kill it with puncturers or even enter melee with Dreamsplitter just to get spell points back from the Torc and i don't want to lose 9 charisma just cause i took my charisma item out of my hand.

Even when using puncturers, which will be a fairly pointless tactic after Mod 9, I keep my off hand Charisma 9 Green Steel and use one puncturing pick in the main hand. You still kill things with the puncturer and can multi-task flinging fingers of death on anything that decides to go after you while you puncture the held monster.

[Junts]

You make my head hurt.

The reality a lot of people have a problem with on ddo is that any caster that can't reliably (eg repair spells or nofail heal scrolls) heal itself is about 20% as useful to a group as one that can do those things, since ones that can't need constant babysitting when they pull aggro. Getting umd done is more important than getting one's dcs done or any other form of eq, because it is alone the difference between a caster being easy and fun to play and a caster being a tremendous frustration where you constnatly feel like you are almost dead and are running for your life waiting for someone to heal you.

Being drow and having 240 hp instead of 360 just makes that all the more difficult, since you only have 2/3 as many hp to stay alive -with-. If you practice a lot and eq well and can self-heal, its not that big a deal, but for someone new to playing a caster, drow is by far the least-forgiving and most-frustrating race.

[Aspenor]

Being drow and having 240 hp instead of 360 just makes that all the more difficult, since you only have 2/3 as many hp to stay alive -with-. If you practice a lot and eq well and can self-heal, its not that big a deal, but for someone new to playing a caster, drow is by far the least-forgiving and most-frustrating race.

Indeed. I call it the "racial primary stat boost trap."