Brass Knuckles

[GryphonBlade]

How do you all feel about this Rogue/Monk blend?
I am using a veriant of Big F'n Stick.
I am going for desent damage with cleave for sneak attack damage over a large group of mobs, at the same time I want to be able to crack the hardest safes, and bipass all security systems.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Lawful Good Halfling Female
(2 Monk \ 14 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 154
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 20
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             13                    13
Dexterity            16                    25
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence         16                    16
Wisdom               12                    13
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               7                    21
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         3                    20
Diplomacy             3                    18
Disable Device        7                    35
Haggle                3                    12
Heal                  1                     1
Hide                  3                     9
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  5                    17
Listen                1                     3
Move Silently         3                     9
Open Lock             7                    35
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                3                     9
Search                7                    29
Spot                  5                    26
Swim                  1                     1
Tumble                7                    20
Use Magic Device      3                    18

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Disable Device


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Cold Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber III
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Way of the Mechanic I
Enhancement: Way of the Mechanic II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device III
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device IV
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock III
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II

[sephiroth1084]

Ditch Skill Focus: DD, unless it's needed for Mechanic (and even then...). Disabling is usually easier than Spotting and/or Searching out traps. This is especially true if you have access to enough money to ensure having the best items available at each level (Spot/Search/Disable goggles with a bonus equal to your level, at every odd level, more or less), and +5 thieves' tools. I believe the Cabal trap's high DC is on the search, not the disable.

I'd also consider dropping Int by a couple points to boost Wis, since the #1 reason for a monk splash is usually the Wis to AC, and in this case, if you're just doing it for the feats, fighter would probably be better.

Cleave and Great Cleave are probably subpar choices for this kind of character: they'll grab you aggro on multiple targets at one time, which will get you a big initial burst of DPS, but will leave you without additional targets to move to when your primary one stops yielding you sneak attacks. You should definitely aim to get Greater TWF with your level 15 feat (monk BAB might not make that possible though).

You only get SA against guys who are not aggro'ed on you (or who are blind). You could concievably cleave, then hit diplomacy to shed aggro, and cleave some more, but I don't know how well that will work. Otherwise, you're just going to end up with a bunch of ppl beating on you and you not getting SA against any of them.

Toughness earlier on wouldn't be a bad idea. Skill Focus: UMD is a good choice as well. You should think about picking up Improved Critical at some point as well. It's not stellar with monk weapons, but it's still not bad.

[QuantumFX]

You’re waiting until level 4 for weapon finesse??? Go 2 levels of rogue then take a level of monk for the weapon finesse. You won’t be able to use Power Attack until level 8ish anyway.

[GryphonBlade]

Ditch Skill Focus: DD, unless it's needed for Mechanic (and even then...)... I believe the Cabal trap's high DC is on the search, not the disable.

From what i read here... http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=173623

The trap dc is about 75-76. I would realy hate to blow that trap up, especialy since I am trying to be a trap buster. This is what i have figured for skill needs. Do you know how much you can fail by befor blowing the trap box ??

Disable Ranks 19
Disable Item 15 ( have not played long enuff to know if they go up that high )
Talents 13 ( counting Mechanic and skill boost )
+6 Int Item 6 ( Assuming starting int of 16 )
+5 Theives tools 7
SF: Disable 3
Fox's Pot 2
G. Heroism Pot 4

Total 69

Only way i can see getting it better would be to get a bard on every run not likely since i am still guildless, and or get nimble fingers =-P =-P.

As for Wis I am using it for AC I am planning on picking up a +6 wis item, however fighter would help me get the BAB for GTWF.

I am trying to get my normal AC up higher than with the Big stick build. That is why i am going away from str and more tward dex.
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=158960

For Toughness I will try to find a way to work it in earlyer.

Very good idea on going 2nd lvl rogue first Quantum I will try it in my refigure.

I will reconfigure a little and post again and see what you all think... Thank you for your time so far.

[Tuney]

I think that trap is not just the highest DC trap I think its trap DC is WAY WAY over leveled most other traps.

[GryphonBlade]

Here is my rework on Brass Knucks....

What i failed to mention the first time is I am consitering going Unarmed combat.

The other point of going monk instead of fighter is for the wind stance enhancement.
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Class:Monk

As for keeping or getting rid up SF: Disable If I find it over kill I can always trade it out for Imp. Crit. But where the damage is comming from is the sneak attack which is not doubled by a crit =-(.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Lawful Good Halfling Female
(2 Monk \ 14 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 159
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 20
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             13                    13
Dexterity            16                    25
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence         16                    16
Wisdom               12                    12
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               7                    20
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         3                    21
Diplomacy             3                    18
Disable Device        7                    35
Haggle                3                    13
Heal                  1                     1
Hide                  3                     9
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  5                    16
Listen                1                     3
Move Silently         3                     9
Open Lock             7                    35
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                3                     9
Search                7                    29
Spot                  5                    26
Swim                  1                     1
Tumble                7                    20
Use Magic Device      3                    18

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Cold Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Void Strike


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Way of the Mechanic I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device III
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock III


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber III


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Way of the Mechanic II
Enhancement: Rogue Search I


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Disable Device
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost IV


Level 16 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device IV

[sephiroth1084]

Reember that you can also get skill pots from the House D turn-ins, which can boost your Search and DD as well.

[Noctus]

I think that trap is not just the highest DC trap I think its trap DC is WAY WAY over leveled most other traps.

Yeah.



And to add insult to injury:
Nobody really cares if you can pop Cabal on elite.
---> SF: Disable is a waste of a feat.



I personally would go so far as to prefer a rogue in my group who cannot pop cabal on a 1 over one who would be able to do such a stunt. "Only" being able to do all the other traps in the game on a 1 suffices. the price in build resources (attributes, feats, enhancements) is very high and so automatically cuts into other areas of his capabilities who are much more important. Thats why i wouldnt pick a cabal-specced rogue over another rogue if i had to choose between the two of them. (player skill and general build the same)

Just dont over-specialise.

[Timjc86]

Do you know how much you can fail by befor blowing the trap box ??

The magic number is 5. If your DD attempt (roll + modifiers) is less than the trap DC - 5, it explodes.

Disable Ranks 19
Disable Item 15 ( have not played long enuff to know if they go up that high )
Talents 13 ( counting Mechanic and skill boost )
+6 Int Item 6 ( Assuming starting int of 16 )
+5 Theives tools 7
SF: Disable 3
Fox's Pot 2
G. Heroism Pot 4

Total 69

Fox's Cunning does not stack with +intelligence items. If you have an int +6 item, you will get no bonus from Fox's Cunning. You could boost this by one more point using a +2 exceptional stat bonus on a shroud weapon. I am not sure if that stacks with the potions that sephiroth1084 mentioned or not. If not, the potions are much cheaper.

What i failed to mention the first time is I am consitering going Unarmed combat.

If you're only going two monk levels, unarmed is really not worth it at end game. You won't have one of your special unarmed-only attacks (Quivering Palm) and if you do take Stunning Fist, the DC won't be high enough to successfully use it.

Handwraps still suffer from missing effects (pure good, transmuting) which are almost essential for current end-game raid bosses. Lots of the effects that are available don't work at all (weakening is a major one, I can find a good thread if you want more details). Greensteel weave handwraps are unavailable, and according to the most recent response from developers, they're not in the works either.

You're fine using handwraps for the first 10-14 levels, but you're going to want to specialize for (and keep a good set of) kamas at end game (and for any mobs that require transmuting/adamantine/silver/etc in between).

Unarmed attack's only saving grace is that it gets an exceptional damage die with successive monk levels and offhand unarmed attacks don't suffer a 1/2 strength bonus penalty (not as big of an issue if you don't have a good strength). If you don't have those successive monk levels, unarmed attack's effectiveness really takes a hit.

If you want to do it for flavor purposes, then by all means, more power to you. But if you don't carry the right kinds of kamas and switch them out as necessary, you won't be meeting your character's full potential.

Edit: To add to what others have already said, the Cabal trap DC is just silly-high. My capped rogue and ranger/rogue splash have to roll very very well (on their reflex saves and their DD checks ) to disarm that trap on elite. That has never ever been an issue in any group I've ever been in.

[GryphonBlade]

Wow... Thank you all for the great info... So after the Cabal on elete trap what is the next highest dc trap on elete?