Devs: about Soul Gems. One more time.

[Impaqt]

The design theory behind the Dragontouched Armor was that it would be essentially randomly generated armor with three enchantments (instead of the "prefix / suffix" system that normal randomly generated armor has) that gives the owner the option to "reroll" each enchantment individually until the owner gets things that they find "good enough".

Once you have a "good enough" piece of armor, it was expected that people would then try to make a second one that was "perfect".

ANd how has that Worked out?

For me, This was the case with my first 2 characters I took through the refuge. After those first 2 characters, I lost all desire to continue trying.... I have one set on a CLeric that is pretty close to what I wanted, and one set on my Bard thats close. Most of my other characters combo's are so horrible I dont even carry the armor in my Inventory anymore. it sits in the bank. and if the guild needs a hand, and I happen to have all my Essenses, I'll go along and roll another die, but I just cant get myself to realy work at it because theres no payoff at the end thats controlled by me. Between Effects that are generaly useless to everyone and Effects that are only helpful to Specific characters its a gamble thats just not worth investing huge amounts of time.

[Borror0]

Will we see more accurate description for feats/enhancements/spells?

[Gordo]

Eladrin

It was very cool of you to respond as this has been my pet project of sorts LOL...

Do you devs see, however, that the simple fact that the runes are completely random, has created a certain disinterest and/or frustration in the whole "crafting" process? Is there any interest from your side to change that factor? For example getting keyed all over again to do Sorjek to get one RANDOM sovereign rune can make it a remarkably endless grind with no guarantee of success in sight.

Whereas the Shroud, for example, has a definitive reward for a grind, the refuge crafting does not. Please consider the randomness the issue and maybe we can all find a solution together.

Thanks

[EddieB_TBC]

In contrast isn't the predictibility of the shroud combinations offset by the randomness of the loot drop for components? How many times do folks run shroud complete or even just to part 4 repeatedly looking for a specific drop (only to have the noob get it on their first run and ask how much it auctions for)?

-Z

[Gratch]

Seems the Sovereign rune as the most potent, with a long list of possibilities probably causes the most angst. Maybe on the 20th run the SoS quest giver could offer "named sovereign runes".

[GoldyGopher]

The design theory behind the Dragontouched Armor was that it would be essentially randomly generated armor with three enchantments (instead of the "prefix / suffix" system that normal randomly generated armor has) that gives the owner the option to "reroll" each enchantment individually until the owner gets things that they find "good enough".

Once you have a "good enough" piece of armor, it was expected that people would then try to make a second one that was "perfect".

I will say what many people are either thinking or thought... That was/is not working as expected.

Players found the randomness frustrating and shall we say very frustrating and virtually worthless.

It owuld have been better to have a system more like the Shroud, where we collect stuff to make intermediaries to make what we want. Gives us a point to doing the farming of the quests.

[Tanka]

The design theory behind the Dragontouched Armor was that it would be essentially randomly generated armor with three enchantments (instead of the "prefix / suffix" system that normal randomly generated armor has) that gives the owner the option to "reroll" each enchantment individually until the owner gets things that they find "good enough".

Once you have a "good enough" piece of armor, it was expected that people would then try to make a second one that was "perfect".

Which, for me, means I've gotten so sick of running it I haven't stepped in the Refuge in several weeks.

Randomness is not fun. You were aiming for a fun grind to keep us occupied, right?

[Gol]

The design theory behind the Dragontouched Armor was that it would be essentially randomly generated armor with three enchantments (instead of the "prefix / suffix" system that normal randomly generated armor has) that gives the owner the option to "reroll" each enchantment individually until the owner gets things that they find "good enough".

Once you have a "good enough" piece of armor, it was expected that people would then try to make a second one that was "perfect".

LMAO. Roll the dice for a sovereign rune for your 1/34 shot at the benefit you want after at least 2 hours of quest time? What were you guys smoking?

Seems the Sovereign rune as the most potent, with a long list of possibilities probably causes the most angst. Maybe on the 20th run the SoS quest giver could offer "named sovereign runes".

20th? F that. 12 shroud runs = enough ingreds to craft, so 12 tops.

[Tarackian]

Heck I'm happy! Now the 3 million i spent buying the scroll back in the day to have the spell will be put to good use. Mod 9 release notes will be interesting reading.

Eladrin responds to a question with a specific answer...

Then he responds to something that wasn't even addressed as a question...

Thank you for the responses, Eladrin. Thunder was meant to be stolen, or it wouldn't come second every time.

[eyepuppy]

The design theory behind the Dragontouched Armor was that it would be essentially randomly generated armor with three enchantments (instead of the "prefix / suffix" system that normal randomly generated armor has) that gives the owner the option to "reroll" each enchantment individually until the owner gets things that they find "good enough".

Once you have a "good enough" piece of armor, it was expected that people would then try to make a second one that was "perfect".

normally I would agree with what the devs do, but I don't like the system for DT armor. It's a pain running SoS 10 times and getting melodic guard 8 times. It would be awesome if we can see what runes we pull for our list when we turn in our 40/80/120. WE only get to choose from 10 or so. That's not too game breaking is it?

[Xaxx]

The design theory behind the Dragontouched Armor was that it would be essentially randomly generated armor with three enchantments (instead of the "prefix / suffix" system that normal randomly generated armor has) that gives the owner the option to "reroll" each enchantment individually until the owner gets things that they find "good enough".

Once you have a "good enough" piece of armor, it was expected that people would then try to make a second one that was "perfect".

in other words kiss off its stayin as it is

[Gordo]

In contrast isn't the predictibility of the shroud combinations offset by the randomness of the loot drop for components? How many times do folks run shroud complete or even just to part 4 repeatedly looking for a specific drop (only to have the noob get it on their first run and ask how much it auctions for)?

-Z

Don't forget that you can buy/trade all of the ingredients outside of shards. The runes can only be transferred in chest.

[maddmatt70]

It really would help if the runes were visible and tradeable. You can always grind for plat to get that one rune you want.

[Gordo]

in other words kiss off its stayin as it is

I didn't read Eladrin's response as a kiss off at all. He said it was "expected" which means they may very well leave it as is or realize there was an "unexpected" backlash and do something to mitigate it. Let's not be negative. We finally have a response that warrants (hopefully) at least one more response to the following question:

Will this mod or any future mod have the issue of random refuge crafting addressed as it pertains to the complaints written here and in other threads?

Thanks

[Bogenbroom]

The design theory behind the Dragontouched Armor was that it would be essentially randomly generated armor with three enchantments (instead of the "prefix / suffix" system that normal randomly generated armor has) that gives the owner the option to "reroll" each enchantment individually until the owner gets things that they find "good enough".

Once you have a "good enough" piece of armor, it was expected that people would then try to make a second one that was "perfect".

And that is why I love it and it wigs out the folks that want something specific. Not being able to get the *perfect* combo is a very very good thing. I ever so wish the shroud items were this way.

[Gordo]

And that is why I love it and it wigs out the folks that want something specific. Not being able to get the *perfect* combo is a very very good thing. I ever so wish the shroud items were this way.

Bogen

I respect that there are people out there like you (and I am not being sarcastic here...) that can grind something like all of the reaver quests and then the raid and be (essentially) guaranteed you will NEVER get what you are looking for and be OK with that.

Please understand, I (at least) am not asking for a "free ride". I am only asking that no matter how painful the grind, it is worth more to the majority of the population to do the quests than under the existing situation as it stands now.

I play quite often and can't even begin to endure the grind after the many tries I have made already.
* Imagine how unfair this is to the casual gamer? *

[Bogenbroom]

20th? F that. 12 shroud runs = enough ingreds to craft, so 12 tops.

And there is the problem... the Shroud. It completely skewed the expectations on crafting. It created immensely powerful items that were exactly what a user wanted and it did it with weapons which is the top tier item in the game.
If you could craft only the perfect boots, much less of a big deal. Add to that no re-flagging and the Shroud was a an expectations disaster. Everything in the game funnels through the Shroud. The whole place should be nuked and paved, but the outcry would be deafening.

[Bogenbroom]

Bogen

I respect that there are people out there like you (and I am not being sarcastic here...) that can grind something like all of the reaver quests and then the raid and be (essentially) guaranteed you will NEVER get what you are looking for and be OK with that.

Please understand, I (at least) am not asking for a "free ride". I am only asking that no matter how painful the grind, it is worth more to the majority of the population to do the quests than under the existing situation as it stands now.

I play quite often and can't even begin to endure the grind after the many tries I have made already.
* Imagine how unfair this is to the casual gamer? *

I get you, but your last sentence there is exactly why the SoS run is better for the casual gamer than the Shroud. One run through SoS ad you get DT armor. Not perfect armor, but something. Then you can modify that armor by running a single quest. (for tier one and tier 2.)

My thing is that I don't think the way the shroud crafting played out is good for the game. The end creations get very uniform, varying by character builds, of course, but very little real variety.

With the DT stuff, I do get the frustration of "downgrading" your item... I'd like to be able to avoid that. Maybe even be able to trade runes in the chest (if they were visible) but nothing beyond that.

[DragoonPenguin]

The design theory behind the Dragontouched Armor was that it would be essentially randomly generated armor with three enchantments (instead of the "prefix / suffix" system that normal randomly generated armor has) that gives the owner the option to "reroll" each enchantment individually until the owner gets things that they find "good enough".

Once you have a "good enough" piece of armor, it was expected that people would then try to make a second one that was "perfect".

eladrins smokin dope! :P a second one? man its taken me (and many others i know) some FIFTY tries to get ONE effect we wanted. And thats for the Eldritch and tempest runes, not the sovereign runes that take forever to come by. my sorc does not need levicks, my cleric does not need combustion. how hard would it have been to at least do something like instead of collecting a rune from the quest end chests, you got a token that you could take to some guy and choose to select a rune from a couple different pools of runes - like runes with effects casters would find yummy, or runes fighter-types would enjoy. instead i pull intelligence skills +3 no less than 15 times and protection 5 more than 20 on my sorc. has there ever been a second instance of the refuge? i dont even know what point im trying to make, but i hate mod 8. please dont ever do that to us again

[DragoonPenguin]

Seems the Sovereign rune as the most potent, with a long list of possibilities probably causes the most angst. Maybe on the 20th run the SoS quest giver could offer "named sovereign runes".

not a raid, and there is no completion counter for it. just leave the refuge forever, youll be much happier for it