The Arguments for Character Respec

[Angelus_dead]

Yes thats the line I wanted to see. Please explain how this line indicates that we should be allowed "full respecs"

I don't need to do that.

It doesn't take a "full respec" to go from pal15/fig1 to pal15, or from ran16 to ran15.

[Mhykke]

"Though character revision does allow you to "rewrite" certain elements of your character, the rules presented here ensure that the changes remain within reason and do not upset the story that has been created by each characters' deeds in the campaign"

Yes thats the line I wanted to see. Please explain how this line indicates that we should be allowed "full respecs" I see it saying very limited resepcs.

-It mentions "character revision" specifically.

-It says it should be within reason. Revising your character to reflect a rule change isn't unreasonable. People in favor of respecs more often than not are willing to have a cost associated with them, so that one doesn't simply respec 10 times in a night.

-As for upsetting the story, respeccing a character doesn't really change the the "story that's been created" through his deeds. If we use an extreme example, let's say one wants to change his barb to a wizard (this would be highly unlikely as the gear a person acquired would be more for melee than a caster)....well, he changes his class completely, but doesn't affect the DDO story that the twelve sees that person as one helping destroy the pit fiend, for example. It doesn't change the story to have one change certain things about his character in DDO.


The 2 paragraphs that AD posted seem to me to indicate the authors were sensitive to the fact that it's better for players to enjoy their character, and allowed for a player to revise their characters, rather than leaving the game or playing a character one does not enjoy.

[FluffyCalico]

I don't need to do that.

It doesn't take a "full respec" to go from pal15/fig1 to pal15, or from ran16 to ran15.

Yes and thats not what alot of people are asking for. Lots are wanting to go from 6 ranger 2 rogue 8 of whatever to 16 of something. Your example I do not have a problem with.

Change 1 feat sure already in game.
Move 1 rank every month to new skill fine
Change 1 level every 3 months fine

Change half your charcter 1 time per month to be the flavor of the week hell no.

[Tanka]

flavor of the week

You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[FluffyCalico]

Please tell me where, exactly, in DDO are my deeds recorded and retold by Bards throught Stormreach.

'Cuz I've got a few bribes I need to make if they do actually exist.

You did know there is a spot for this on your character? Sadly most think this spot if for "check how many times you died with /death count" "Or dont group with x"

This could also be viewed as favor. At 400 favor from x some of their bards should definately be singing about you.

[Tanka]

You did know there is a spot for this on your character? Sadly most think this spot if for "check how many times you died with /death count" "Or dont group with x"

This could also be viewed as favor. At 400 favor from x some of their bards should definately be singing about you.

I don't play this game to roleplay. I play this game to have fun, which to me (and many others) is character improvement.

If I wanted to roleplay, I'd be with my tabletop group.

[FluffyCalico]

You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I think I have used it 2-3 times in 3 years. And I do know it's not icecream. To be clear its all the subpower gammers that want to be just like person x when they see what he can do. Or who want to copy some build that got posted and they oohh ahhh I like that.

Are you calling me short? Because if I look like anyone in Princess bride it would be the giant.

[bobbryan2]

Yes and thats not what alot of people are asking for. Lots are wanting to go from 6 ranger 2 rogue 8 of whatever to 16 of something. Your example I do not have a problem with.

Change 1 feat sure already in game.
Move 1 rank every month to new skill fine
Change 1 level every 3 months fine

Change half your charcter 1 time per month to be the flavor of the week hell no.

While I agree that that is not the goal of a respec... A respec, for sure, is not to be to spec into whatever is the current popular build.

However, it's one of those things that isn't such a big deal, that you should completely gimp legitimate respecs for it.

The truth of the matter is trading out one class, or one skill isn't even possible with the current way characters are saved... I don't mind people making reasonable suggestions for how to avoid the "FOTM" complaint... but most suggestions I see are more like this than anything else. Taking 1 class away every month isn't reasonable or feasible.

Something like, "limit 1 respec per 6 months, and make it cost 500k plat" is far more reasonable and feasible and limits FOTM speccing.

But seriously... I think you need to ask yourself if the FOTM speccing is really that big of a problem? There aren't currently any crazy, insane builds out there that make every other build useless. There are good ways to make any class out there, so there will be plenty of diversity, even if you were allowed to respec 100% of your character any time you wanted for free. (I don't think that would be a good idea even so... but I think there would still be diversity)

[Quanefel]

Exactly... level drain is supposed to be a bad thing.

In D&D there is no level cap to get stuck at, so if you have a way to get XP you can keep going up and up. But in DDO there is a level cap, creating the perverse situation where many characters would enjoy getting level drained so they could take a better level.

Rule of Thumb: If the game rules create a situation where a player can regret accepting some reward (like advancing in level), those rules should be re-examined.


What are you trying to do?

That is a perverse abuse of the rules. In DDO as well as a D&D there is a spell called restoration that cancels all that out. Also, I do believe the energy drain attack picks randomly what class is drained from you.

How does a game rule situation have anything to do with a player picking for himself a reward such as a class level the mistake of anyone but that player? The rules do not need to be examined, that player needs to be examined.

[Tanka]

I think I have used it 2-3 times in 3 years. And I do know it's not icecream. To be clear its all the subpower gammers that want to be just like person x when they see what he can do. Or who want to copy some build that got posted and they oohh ahhh I like that.

Wrong. The powergamers don't need "fotw" builds to succeed. They, in fact, usually make their own and don't post about it.

The people who would be respeccing to these so-called "flavor" builds aren't powergamers.

[FluffyCalico]

I don't play this game to roleplay. I play this game to have fun, which to me (and many others) is character improvement.

If I wanted to roleplay, I'd be with my tabletop group.

Then you have just taken the last part of DnD out of DDO. Congrats!

[Angelus_dead]

I don't play this game to roleplay. I play this game to have fun, which to me (and many others) is character improvement.

If I wanted to roleplay, I'd be with my tabletop group.

That's fine for you, but allowing respecs supports roleplay.

As explained in the PHB2 excerpts, when a character is rerolled because there had been a mistake building him, there's an interruption in the continuity of the storyline, as one personality ends and is inexplicably replaced with another. Rerolling hurts roleplaying, and respec prevents that.

[FluffyCalico]

Wrong. The powergamers don't need "fotw" builds to succeed. They, in fact, usually make their own and don't post about it.

The people who would be respeccing to these so-called "flavor" builds aren't powergamers.

Please read before quoting. It said subpower gammers. Thanks

Edit Hey wow allows you to see anyones complete spec and gear. Should we allow that too so when you are the bad ass of the server there are 1000 of you on every server?

[Angelus_dead]

The truth of the matter is trading out one class, or one skill isn't even possible with the current way characters are saved...

No, it is possible. It's not 100% straightforward, but it's possible.

If the starting design had been a little smarter it would have been easy, because the game server would have saved the choices made at each level up. But even without that data, a good programmer can handle it acceptably.

[Tanka]

Then you have just taken the last part of DnD out of DDO. Congrats!

In your opinion. Which is wrong.

That's fine for you, but allowing respecs supports roleplay.

As explained in the PHB2 excerpts, when a character is rerolled because there had been a mistake building him, there's an interruption in the continuity of the storyline, as one personality ends and is inexplicably replaced with another. Rerolling hurts roleplaying, and respec prevents that.

I could care less if they added an in-game storyline (even a multi-part quest) for the respec. I just know I want one that isn't handicapped to the point of uselessness.

Please read before quoting. It said subpower gammers. Thanks

Subpower gammers? I'm not even certain what that means.

[FluffyCalico]

In your opinion. Which is wrong.

.

You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.


I assume you know that it's an Oxymoron you keep using.

Lets see how to define subpower gammer for you. That would be a power gammer want to be that lacks the skills to do anything other than copy someone else and what they did. This applies to both characters and strategy for new content.

[Quanefel]

That's fine for you, but allowing respecs supports roleplay.

As explained in the PHB2 excerpts, when a character is rerolled because there had been a mistake building him, there's an interruption in the continuity of the storyline, as one personality ends and is inexplicably replaced with another. Rerolling hurts roleplaying, and respec prevents that.

What's next, "allowing respecs will stop global warming?" O.o

There are some straws still on the table over there, keep grasping for them.....

[Tanka]

You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.


I assume you know that it's an Oxymoron you keep using.

PnP does not automatically mean roleplaying. Many people played 3.5 for the tactical combat game that it tried to be.

[Tanka]

Lets see how to define subpower gammer for you. That would be a power gammer want to be that lacks the skills to do anything other than copy someone else and what they did. This applies to both characters and strategy for new content.

Quickedits to add more commentary are really quite annoying. You know that, right?

Either way, there's an extra 'm' in there that was throwing me off in my drunken state. ('Tanka', you ask, 'why are you posting drunk?' 'Well, because I can,' I respond.)

Who cares if the wannabe powergamers are copying someone else? They won't be able to grind for the right gear fast enough to make a difference if they're switching every however long (unless that 'however long' is prohibitively long - measured in the months, of course).

[FluffyCalico]

PnP does not automatically mean roleplaying. Many people played 3.5 for the tactical combat game that it tried to be.

You misunderstood, the Oxymoron you keep using isn't that it's

"In your opinion. Which is wrong"