The Arguments for Character Respec

[FluffyCalico]

Again, this is a mechanics issue.

Make those respecs start at level 1, and now people have an option...do they explore the lvl 17-20 content? Or do they go back to level 1 b/c they wanted a respec to half orc.

And this, of course, ignores that some barbs may not want to respec to half orc (wf powerattack, dwarven axe enhancements, human extra feats).

So this is a mechanics issue. Not an issue against adding respecs, in general.

Make me start at level 1 is like a 2 day delay if I take off from work.

I say this argument is that there is character bound loot and soon to be account bound loot. If turbine wanted all character bound loot to become account bound loot they could do this with a couple lines of code.

I think you would have a better chance of arguing for all character bound loot to become account bound either way the net effect is very simular.

[Mhykke]

Make me start at level 1 is like a 2 day delay if I take off from work.

I say this argument is that there is character bound loot and soon to be account bound loot. If turbine wanted all character bound loot to become account bound loot they could do this with a couple lines of code.

I think you would have a better chance of arguing for all character bound loot to become account bound either way the net effect is very simular.

Lol, well, if we're resorting to defining what should or should not be in game based on players who will actually take days off of work to cap a character in 2 days, then I'd say we're arguing the vast extremes.

And using your example, you make an assumption that half orcs are so grossly imbalanced that most would want to change whatever they're playing now into one. Otherwise, why are all these people respeccing into half orcs? This isn't an argument against respecs. This is an argument against breaking balance by making 1 race so much better than other options. As I mentioned, there are also disincentives from rerolling a barb into a half orc (assuming they're not grossly imbalance). Some want wf power attack, some want dwarven axe enhancements, some want an extra human feat. So again, there's still variety, as there still is no 1 "uber build", and the fear that all, or even most, would respec into half orcs is unfounded.

[FluffyCalico]

Lol, well, if we're resorting to defining what should or should not be in game based on players who will actually take days off of work to cap a character in 2 days, then I'd say we're arguing the vast extremes.

And using your example, you make an assumption that half orcs are so grossly imbalanced that most would want to change whatever they're playing now into one. Otherwise, why are all these people respeccing into half orcs? This isn't an argument against respecs. This is an argument against breaking balance by making 1 race so much better than other options. As I mentioned, there are also disincentives from rerolling a barb into a half orc (assuming they're not grossly imbalance). Some want wf power attack, some want dwarven axe enhancements, some want an extra human feat. So again, there's still variety, as there still is no 1 "uber build", and the fear that all, or even most, would respec into half orcs is unfounded.

Um it's like an example or something

[Mhykke]

Um it's like an example or something

Yes, but an example against huge race imbalances, not an example against respecs.

[FluffyCalico]

Yes, but an example against huge race imbalances, not an example against respecs.

Actually is was an example where abuse of the respec would allow a player to bypass all the NEW content or NEW fealing they intended from a NEW race so they can come here is whine there is nothing for them to do.

[Mhykke]

Actually is was an example where abuse of the respec would allow a player to bypass all the NEW content or NEW fealing they intended from a NEW race so they can come here is whine there is nothing for them to do.

Question, how would respeccing from a lvl 16 warforged barb, to a level 16 half orc barb, bypass "all the NEW content" (the new level 17-20 quests)? I thought you actually had to run that content to complete it.

[Borror0]

2 min after mod 9 releases you have 500 level 17 fully decked out in raid/crafted gear half orc barbs because they respeced their race to the new one

they could just disable the half-orc option on respecs for a while...

[bobbryan2]

Actually is was an example where abuse of the respec would allow a player to bypass all the NEW content or NEW fealing they intended from a NEW race so they can come here is whine there is nothing for them to do.

More people are willing to actually compromise and talk with you if you don't use the word whine.

Unless you're just trying to tick people off...

[FluffyCalico]

More people are willing to actually compromise and talk with you if you don't use the word whine.

Unless you're just trying to tick people off...

Sorry if I see a pink elephant I am not going to call it light red because you don't like the word pink

[bobbryan2]

Sorry if I see a pink elephant I am not going to call it light red because you don't like the word pink

Please... that's the same thing at all. The word 'whining' is only used to belittle the other side and make it seem like their cares and opinions are juvenile.

It's a purely rhetorical device, and not an accurate depiction of a color in the spectrum.

[FluffyCalico]

Please... that's the same thing at all. The word 'whining' is only used to belittle the other side and make it seem like their cares and opinions are juvenile.

It's a purely rhetorical device, and not an accurate depiction of a color in the spectrum.

whined, whin·ing, whines

3. A complaint uttered in a plaintive tone.

I use it to describe "A complaint uttered in a plaintive tone." just like my dictionary states I should

[Mhykke]

whined, whin·ing, whines

3. A complaint uttered in a plaintive tone.

I use it to describe "A complaint uttered in a plaintive tone." just like my dictionary states I should

Well looks like everyone's whining. Whiners about respecs, and whiners about the whiners. Great.

(although I'd suggest you keep using that dictionary and look up the word "plaintive")

[FluffyCalico]

Well looks like everyone's whining. Whiners about respecs, and whiners about the whiners. Great.

(although I'd suggest you keep using that dictionary and look up the word "plaintive")

expressing sorrow or melancholy; mournful

still fits

waiting to hear this point you hinted at

[Mhykke]

expressing sorrow or melancholy; mournful

still fits

I fail to see how "DDO should have respecs because of x, y, and z" is expressing sorry, or melancholy, or being mournful.

Maybe keep looking and read up on the definitions of those 3 words?

[FluffyCalico]

I fail to see how "DDO should have respecs because of x, y, and z" is expressing sorry, or melancholy, or being mournful.

Maybe keep looking and read up on the definitions of those 3 words?

They shouldn't which why I said this is a reason not too.

[baddax]

No, you're leaving something out. People don't want to level up again if they have to start from scratch. People on the pro respec side are willing to accept costs associated with a respec. Releveling could be a cost. If I wanted to change a character, I would not delete a character that I put in a lot of effort into, in order to create a similar character and start from scratch. I would be willing to respec that character if he kept his favor and gear, and he started at level 1. I'd be gaining a benefit in keeping my effort, and I'd be releveling. Releveling would be much more palatable b/c I received a benefit for my cost.



I'm not sure if you're too familiar with DDO if you're using this argument. You do realize that the gear that one shoots for as a sorc is completely and totally different than the gear one shoots for as a ranger, or a cleric, right? So the benefit of a respec (keeping gear), is completely irrelevant if someone were to completely change from a sorc to a ranger or cleric. B/c it is irrelevant, it is highly unlikely that someone would be swapping from ranger to sorc to cleric to barb.




I think this has been explained to you, but if not, here it is again: DDO does not record when you eat a tome, for example. Let's say I eat a +2 int tome at level 5. At that point, I get an extra skill point a level. But let's say, at level 6, I want to erase my last 2 levels and go back to level 4. This is a problem, b/c DDO doesn't keep the information that you ate that +2 int tome at level 5. Furthermore, this problem is compounded if, let's say at level 5 you were a rogue, and level 6 you were a cleric. You get a different number of skill points for each of those classes, and DDO doesn't record that you got x number of skill points at 5, and x number at 6. It is very complicated for the game to go through all your decisions level by level to change them.

So the argument that starting from level 1 is easier makes sense. You simply start from level 1, and the game does not have to worry about recalling when you ate tomes, or what skill points you received when.

Everyone Always takes the highest skill point class first RIGHT????
Also everyone ate their int tomes AT level 1 Right?????

[Monkey_Archer]

I cannot support a respec system without knowing what it involves...
Any full respec (incuding all class levels, alignment, skills, and stat points) I just cant support.... regardless of the cost...

If I were to support a respec it would have to be done RIGHT, for the game's sake, not just done the easiest way to code to please the vocal respec croud that are demanding this before the next mod.

By right i mean:
if you only want to respec feats.. just respec feats...
if you only want to respec enhancements.. just respec enhancements..
if you only want to respec skills... just respec skills...
if you want to respec 1 level... just respec 1 level...
if you want to respec alignment.. just respec alignment..

The first 2 already exist in the game... and due to timers, allow a gradual respec in a non game breaking way.

Any half-asked, easy to code respec feature to please powergamers who want an optimal build should not even be on the table.

[Mhykke]

...please the vocal respec croud that are demanding this before the next mod.

I'm sorry, I have to ask.

Can you please post the link to the demand that the respec should be done before the next mod?

[bobbryan2]

expressing sorrow or melancholy; mournful

still fits

waiting to hear this point you hinted at

By "still fits," I'm going to assume you mean, "It doesn't fit at all."

Ooooh, ok, with that translation, that makes sense.

Besides, by the tightest interpretation, a suggestion of a respec mechanism could never be considered a complaint. You could go further and say that the reasons 'why' a respec should be added could be a complaint... but seriously... that's starting to stretch.

The reality is that it isn't whining, and the people who are asking for respecs aren't whiners. You're simply trying to belittle people and call them juvenile. I didn't tell you not to do it... I just said only do it if your purpose is to tick people off.

[FluffyCalico]

By "still fits," I'm going to assume you mean, "It doesn't fit at all."

Ooooh, ok, with that translation, that makes sense.

Besides, by the tightest interpretation, a suggestion of a respec mechanism could never be considered a complaint. You could go further and say that the reasons 'why' a respec should be added could be a complaint... but seriously... that's starting to stretch.

The reality is that it isn't whining, and the people who are asking for respecs aren't whiners. You're simply trying to belittle people and call them juvenile. I didn't tell you not to do it... I just said only do it if your purpose is to tick people off.

You did not read it correctly.

stress down more starting to like the forums now