The Arguments for Character Respec

[Quanefel]

For the record, I think both of those are questions.

Secondly.... It IS ignorant to think we should be lucky for DDO's respecs if they're insufficient compared to every other MMO out there. How do we know they're insufficient? Because there is not another analogous situation that you can name.

Again... I didn't ask who's fault it is. You're going down that path either due to poor reading comprehension or because you're scared of where my question will actually lead.

I, instead, asked if there's an analagous situation. Where a character can permanently break his character with a few misclicks and not have a way to fix it.

What other MMO has that situation?

Not all sentences are questions. A ? helps the reader determine if something written is a question. Not to nit pick, just saying.

How do you even know that our respecs that we have is insuffucient compared to every other MMO out there? If the other MMO has only 1 type of respec to cover all that makes up a character in each individual MMO game and we have 3 types right now, how is that insuffucient? No matter if the respec is to change something from creation or later on down the road it still shows DDO has more ability to adapt then the other MMO's with their respec.

You do not have to ask who's fault it is for me to make my own statement about it, what my thoughts are on the matter.

What other MMO has that situation? None. Since there are options to fix "misclicks" or mistakes a player makes in their character, depending on the mistake. If the MMO offers a type of respec to fix it, they can use that. If not they can reroll a new character if there is no other choice available. I am sure if any of those MMO's thought it was in their best interest to allow all their players to fully respec every aspect of their character with a full respec, they might have had one...at least one MMO that has that feature. No MMO allows for that.

[Quanefel]

That shows that everythnig past level 1 can be respec'd, like I said.

Everything past level one is it now? Does this mean you all do not want a full respec in this game to change anything at creation, only things starting after level 1?

[Aspenor]

Gee, I'm actually pro-respec now, and willing to discuss the issue, but then I see the pro side is back to sliming and bullying people like Quanefel for not agreeing with them.

Just to make it clear, people bully Quanefel because it's fun, not because he disagrees with them.

Half the time people aren't even bullying him, it's just that he plays the victim whenever anybody disagrees with him. It's a very noticeable pattern.

I changed my forums avatar so I wouldn't be visually associated. Seriously....

[bobbryan2]

Everything past level one is it now? Does this mean you all do not want a full respec in this game to change anything at creation, only things starting after level 1?

What other MMO has character choices made prior to level 1 that can permanently gimp a character?

EDIT: The point is, You're trying to say prior to level 1 is the same in DDO as it is in other MMOs. That's simply not true.

[bobbryan2]

Not all sentences are questions. A ? helps the reader determine if something written is a question. Not to nit pick, just saying.

How do you even know that our respecs that we have is insuffucient compared to every other MMO out there? If the other MMO has only 1 type of respec to cover all that makes up a character in each individual MMO game and we have 3 types right now, how is that insuffucient? No matter if the respec is to change something from creation or later on down the road it still shows DDO has more ability to adapt then the other MMO's with their respec.

You do not have to ask who's fault it is for me to make my own statement about it, what my thoughts are on the matter.

What other MMO has that situation? None. Since there are options to fix "misclicks" or mistakes a player makes in their character, depending on the mistake. If the MMO offers a type of respec to fix it, they can use that. If not they can reroll a new character if there is no other choice available. I am sure if any of those MMO's thought it was in their best interest to allow all their players to fully respec every aspect of their character with a full respec, they might have had one...at least one MMO that has that feature. No MMO allows for that.

So you agree that being able to permanently gimp your character is unique to DDO? Due to many reasons, including lack of sufficient respec system and very indepth character customization?

[maddmatt70]

Just to make it clear, people bully Quanefel because it's fun, not because he disagrees with them.

Half the time people aren't even bullying him, it's just that he plays the victim whenever anybody disagrees with him. It's a very noticeable pattern.

I changed my forums avatar so I wouldn't be visually associated. Seriously....

I don't bother reading his posts personally. The posts often are far removed from any reality I know. There are folks who are against the respec and they have some valid points, but it just feels a little harsh sounding to me especially since we are customers buying a product...

[Aspenor]

I don't bother reading his posts personally. The posts often are far removed from any reality I know. There are folks who are against the respec and they have some valid points, but it just feels a little harsh sounding to me especially since we are customers buying a product...

I, as well, don't bother. Mostly because I find myself zoning out after the fifth word....

[Borror0]

I, as well, don't bother.

Subscribe me to that now, too.

[Quanefel]

So you agree that being able to permanently gimp your character is unique to DDO? Due to many reasons, including lack of sufficient respec system and very indepth character customization?

No, you asked if MMO's had a way for you to permanently gimp your character and NO way to fix it. You did not like the answer so you remove the "No way to fix them" to make it a new question but using my answer to the original question?

[Monkey_Archer]

If you want to go to the moon....
Maybe you should start building a rocket?

Regardless of what a respec would add or subtract from the game... or who it would benefit.. or whether its a good or bad idea....

Maybe you should start arguing for something that might be FEASIBLE like a skill point respec.

In respose to a question about pickpocket skills:

Although this sounds like a really fun addition to the game, I believe we'll have a lot of other priorities that shadow this in the near future. To really do something like this justice, we'd have to rework a lot of monsters and quests to make use of this kind of dynamic. It would appear to me that the cost of doing this is that it would slow down the content team. Another thing to consider is that we'd want a new skill for this. Any time we talk about new skills or changing skills in the game, the scary topic of skill respec comes up. That feature is a lot trickier than most people would imagine it to be and will take a lot of engineering and QA time to complete if we ever decide to do it.

So overall, I don't really see this happening for you anytime soon. Sorry. However, I'll bring it up in our next meeting as a general concept.

Thanks for your feedback,

Codog

[bobbryan2]

No, you asked if MMO's had a way for you to permanently gimp your character and NO way to fix it. You did not like the answer so you remove the "No way to fix them" to make it a new question but using my answer to the original question?

No... they're both the same question.

It's implied that if you have a permanently gimped character, that there is no way to fix it. That's what permanent means, genius.

You're getting too cute for yourself.

[Quanefel]

If you want to go to the moon....
Maybe you should start building a rocket?

Regardless of what a respec would add or subtract from the game... or who it would benefit.. or whether its a good or bad idea....

Maybe you should start arguing for something that might be FEASIBLE like a skill point respec.

In respose to a question about pickpocket skills:

Agreed. Yet the problem is not that people are for something small like a skill respec, it is that unless it is a Full Respec.....it generally gets pushed to the side as not good enough.

[bobbryan2]

If you want to go to the moon....
Maybe you should start building a rocket?

Regardless of what a respec would add or subtract from the game... or who it would benefit.. or whether its a good or bad idea....

Maybe you should start arguing for something that might be FEASIBLE like a skill point respec.

In respose to a question about pickpocket skills:

That quote says that a skill point respec is less feasible than a full respec. In fact, most of the ideas of a full respec have come because it would be too difficult to use a deleveling system.

Soooo... I AM arguing for something feasible.

[bobbryan2]

Agreed. Yet the problem is not that people are for something small like a skill respec, it is that unless it is a Full Respec.....it generally gets pushed to the side as not good enough.

No, I'd be happy to have a deleveling system, and/or a skill respec. The point is... that it's not as easy to code as a redo. Full respecs are presented for simplicities sake.

[maddmatt70]

If you want to go to the moon....
Maybe you should start building a rocket?

Regardless of what a respec would add or subtract from the game... or who it would benefit.. or whether its a good or bad idea....

Maybe you should start arguing for something that might be FEASIBLE like a skill point respec.

In respose to a question about pickpocket skills:

No dispute here if it takes too much engineering to respec then the developers shouldn't do it. If on the other hand it costs gradual development time and it would only amount to 1 or 2 less dungeons in mod9 I think it would be worth it. Its cost-benefit analysis if a respec prevents people from leaving the game and doesn't take tremendous amounts of time to do then its an investment worthwhile because Turbine can in effect with those extra subscribers kept due to a respec make an extra dungeon or 2 in mod 10. We don't know exactly how long it will take to put a respec in ddo - that is all speculation on your part Monkey-Archer. I think some people will leave ddo because the prospect of rerolling and leveling and gearing up their favorite character is too daunting and just plain old not fun.

[Monkey_Archer]

No, I'd be happy to have a deleveling system, and/or a skill respec. The point is... that it's not as easy to code as a redo. Full respecs are presented for simplicities sake.

A full redo is called a reroll.
How do you propose a full repec WITHOUT having it include a skill point respec?

[bobbryan2]

A full redo is called a reroll.
Who do you propose a full repec WITHOUT having it include a skill point respec?

Umm... I don't propose anything of the kind.

Good thing I didn't ask for a full redo... I used the term full respec. But thanks for defining redo. And please... just try to say that full respec = reroll... because that's just dumb.

[Quanefel]

No, I'd be happy to have a deleveling system, and/or a skill respec. The point is... that it's not as easy to code as a redo. Full respecs are presented for simplicities sake.

I can imagine even I would be for some type of a deleveling system or even just a skill respec. Yet if we try to bring it up, we are shouted down if it is not for a Full Respec. Where are our choices, our options, our opinions being considered? For people to simply dismiss someone asking only for an alignment respec only because that person did not ask for a full respec instead, how do you think that looks? How do you think people start to feel when that goes on?

Start a thread asking for just a skill respec. See how long that lasts, see how many come down on you because you are not asking for a full respec. Maybe you will see some of the frustration some of us have with this whole issue.

[Steiner-Davion]

Determining when free respec tokens are given out should be pretty easy. Any time major class abilities are changed would probably do it, at the devs discretion.

The evasion change of '06 would qualify (or was it 07?). Changing monk wisdom bonus ac to centered-only, or limiting it to 2x monk level would be another good example.

The upcoming mod with their capstones would also qualify, though any free respec tokens should expire 4 weeks after the change is made.

I completely agree with the above points. As someone who has converted from the anti-respec camp (granted that was a long time ago, when I originally posted something along the line of you can't respec life, so you shuld respec in a game), those are perfect examples of great opportunities for nerfing and destroying builds. And as a casual player, who is lucky if I can get in 6 hours of gametime a week, I do not have the luxury of rerolling everytime things change. I have only 1 capped character after 3 years and 2 weeks of play (since head start).

My capped main character has a lot of wasted skills points (because skills I thought would be important at games launch, just did not turnout to be important or Turbine made changes to skills and there use after launch. Balance now being used instead of Reflex saves for example) and is a 28 point build. Is it completely nerfed no, but I certainly would do things differently if I had known these things ahead of time.

[Monkey_Archer]

I can imagine even I would be for some type of a deleveling system or even just a skill respec. Yet if we try to bring it up, we are shouted down if it is not for a Full Respec. Where are our choices, our options, our opinions being considered? For people to simply dismiss someone asking only for an alignment respec only because that person did not ask for a full respec instead, how do you think that looks? How do you think people start to feel when that goes on?

Start a thread asking for just a skill respec. See how long that lasts, see how many come down on you because you are not asking for a full respec. Maybe you will see some of the frustration some of us have with this whole issue.

Im sure mice dream of going to the moon too

I like rockets... some might just explode along the way