Jaerlach, Defender of Siberys

[sephiroth1084]

Hey Junts, I didn't notice a +15 Intim item in your equipment, but it is in your figures for intimidate. Did you mean for this to pop into the helm slot? Do you find that not having a permanent place for the item hurts, or would hurt?

On my tank I know that I'm trying to figure out where I'll stick this when I get my ToD ring, and where to fit a potency item as well.

[jmonty]

is the lack of balance noticeable? most of my skillpoints are in balance and intim, but i'll probably respec them on my dwarven version to get UMD, which i didn't think about when originally leveling.

[Junts]

Hey Junts, I didn't notice a +15 Intim item in your equipment, but it is in your figures for intimidate. Did you mean for this to pop into the helm slot? Do you find that not having a permanent place for the item hurts, or would hurt?

On my tank I know that I'm trying to figure out where I'll stick this when I get my ToD ring, and where to fit a potency item as well.

If I want intimidate over mid-40s, I put on a 15 intimidate helmet. I don't do this very often, as mid-40s is enough for everything I use the skill for these days (eg, non-boss mobs). If I need to intimidate a boss, though, I don't typically need devotion, since I have a dedicated healer of some kind anyway.

More often, in those situations I'm going with Minos Legens for the extra hit points (cause its tower). Even with the helm on, my intimidate check on epic wouldn't really work anyhow.

As for balance, even with the balance ranks I've got its pretty much not something that helps a whole lot, if I have balance problems I wear the Titan boots or something .. If I were to lesser reincarnate this character, I'd put all the balance, and most of the jump, into concentration so I could get by sans-quicken more often.

I recently dropped extend for empower healing, still trying it out.. I have enough sp income to afford it, though getting used to re-buffing more often is a pain, and larger heals (and a bit more mana efficient ones, too) are really nice, since its that much less often I need to cast them, which is more time to fight. With empower healing, the range is 150-200 now, and will be a bit higher than that after I finally get my tower ring, which'll let me get another 10% on the heals (which will be a bit more t han that due to healing amp).

[Junts]

Updated. Didn't want to add the epic items until I actually had them.

[mictank]

I have been lookin for a tank build for a paladin. I like the way this build looks but i was wondering if you didnt have to worry about the self-healing how would the enhancments and feats change?

[Junts]

I have been lookin for a tank build for a paladin. I like the way this build looks but i was wondering if you didnt have to worry about the self-healing how would the enhancments and feats change?

I'd pick extend back up, have 2 feats to do whatever I wanted with, and 3 action points (you want to keep human improved recovery, since it helps other people heal you).

[mictank]

does it matter how u spend your skill points or can you end up with the same number no matter which way u spend them?

[Junts]

does it matter how u spend your skill points or can you end up with the same number no matter which way u spend them?

With the skills I have it doesn't much matter, because everything is cross-class on your paladin levels .. if you wanted to pick up some concentration for self-healing purposes, you'd pay attention and want to map it out in advance.

I may lesser reincarnate the character when that comes out just to adjust the skill point allocation, but it would be an incredibly minor change so its probably not worth my money. I now have slightly more jump and tumble than I need to have due to equipment changes (though you'd want to take the same amount of tumble .. I have too much due to an extremely hard to acquire armor that has a very low armor check penalty, you really wouldn't want to set up your character to not be able to tumble until you get it .. it'll take a long, long, long time).

Jump, though, you could easily take 5-6 less ranks in and still be maxed out due to your strength and the Morah's belt clicky, which didn't exist a year before when I made the character.

[mictank]

Thanks for all the advice it was a big help.

[DartanTR]

One of the Defender of Sib enhancements is suppose to be Paladin Armor Class Boost I. Is Fighter Haste Boost suppose to be Paladin Armor Class Boost I instead?

[Junts]

One of the Defender of Sib enhancements is suppose to be Paladin Armor Class Boost I. Is Fighter Haste Boost suppose to be Paladin Armor Class Boost I instead?

No, I've got ac boost I in there somewhere; the enhancements section isn't really up to date, because enhancements are very flexible. I probably change the details around the edges of my enhancements at least once a week. It costs nothing but 10-15 minutes of time. Haste boost is an incredibly powerful and useful enhancement as a stand-alone, and should be taken regardless of whether it qualifies you for anything.

[DartanTR]

No, I've got ac boost I in there somewhere; the enhancements section isn't really up to date, because enhancements are very flexible. I probably change the details around the edges of my enhancements at least once a week. It costs nothing but 10-15 minutes of time. Haste boost is an incredibly powerful and useful enhancement as a stand-alone, and should be taken regardless of whether it qualifies you for anything.

My bad, you're right. You put it as AC boost rather than armored boost. Sorry, it was late for me. Thanks again for posting the build. I'm following it closely and so far enjoying it very much. This is also my first account/character and appreciate your patience

[Junts]

My bad, you're right. You put it as AC boost rather than armored boost. Sorry, it was late for me. Thanks again for posting the build. I'm following it closely and so far enjoying it very much. This is also my first account/character and appreciate your patience

AC Boost is actually a very bad way to use your action boosts (uses are shared with haste boost), the only reason to take it is as the defender pre-requisite. Haste boosts, however, will really increase your attack speed in a short burst, and are a great way to deal with a particularly troublesome boss or mob pack. When you're hasted, you'll get something like 9 extra attacks over the 20 seconds the haste boost lasts, which at low levels is an extra 2-4 mobs. If you're having problems with being hit too much in that kind of pack, activate defensive stance instead; even as a lowbie, its the same +ac as the armor boost (at higher tiers of defender, it gives more), its permanent until you turn it off, it increases your offense (str) and your other defenses (saves, hp), and because it slows you down so bad, you're probably not using it for the whole quest. You'll be very dependent on tumble to move in-stance until you get to tier 3, where the slowdown's not so bad. Even so, I rarely activate superior stance when I don't intend to stand still and fight for a while .. the mobility loss is just too inconvenient most of the time.

If you have a bad time, in order go defensive stance, cast divine favor (if its not up yet), hit the intimidate key, use a haste boost and start hacking, and hope that either your ac is high enough that you can tank the whole pack (as a lowbie, it almost always will be if you have decent gear) and that whatever's left of your party is smart enough to take advantage of you holding all the mobs to eliminate the more dangerous ones (like casters).

You might want to look into some alternative feat selections to maximize/quicken (have extend for empower healing for a long time) until you get the mana-regeneration gear, as it's pretty time-consuming to get and those two feats will not be very helpful to you until you've got it. Intimidate-related skills, cc skills (improved trip) and even damage-related skills (thf and ithf) are going to help you more until you've got that high-end gear that gives you back SP when you get hit.

[Charlemagne2]

Hats off to your intim tank I am just wondering how I am going to out do it?

2 Questions:

1. With self healing are you constantly having your CE off or do you only self heal to stay alive?

2. What do you think he is rolling to hit on elite vs hard? I have a 78 ac and he beats me like a red headed step child.

Once again you have an awesome build but I cant just copy yours-gotta abduul it up a bit!

[Junts]

Hats off to your intim tank I am just wondering how I am going to out do it?

2 Questions:

1. With self healing are you constantly having your CE off or do you only self heal to stay alive?

2. What do you think he is rolling to hit on elite vs hard? I have a 78 ac and he beats me like a red headed step child.

Once again you have an awesome build but I cant just copy yours-gotta abduul it up a bit!

I rarely find that I both need to self-heal and use CE at the same time; if I need CE to tank something, its probably a raid and I have my own healer (though it can be nice while, say, running back to Judge after being thrown into spikes for 350 damage). If timed right, re-activating CE after a cast isn't too big a deal. I try to keep my ac high enough that I can run with power attack pretty much all the time .. at the moment I only use CE for tanking elite bosses. Even VoD on hard I've got enough raid ac to tank in power attack. Consequently I'm pretty much always in PA in instances, which is when I really use my healing the most. I've also been really, really happy with the healing in epic questing, when concentration checks are impossible for anyone to make on scrolls, and when no amount of ac is really effective mitigation. Being able to heal yourself 200 and go right back to beating away at Raiyum or a clay golem is very useful, though in those situations I feel very heavily having not pulled the **** mysterious Bauble in 70+ runs of weapon shipment. Torc mana regen is somewhat limited on epic, though I think I'm going to make myself an epic shield of the scorpion with +7 enhancement: same ac as a mithral tower, greater spearblock for archer damage, and no -2 to hit penalty. I'll still use levik's defender a lot (I love healer's bounty, its an unmentioned but huge part of my self-healing, since it goes off so often), but I think having the no hit penalty and archer dr would be very useful for Chains, OOB and DQ2. My lit2 Khopesh does more damage than any 2hander I own, so I'm not that worried about giving up dps to use the shield. I'll be pretty torn whether this character or my sorceror gets my first epic spell storing ring .. with a bauble and an epic SS ring and the torc, I'm pretty sure this character could bar-heal himself through an epic instance. As it is, he can do that with wisely used scrolls and lay hands, but breaking entirely out of reliance on the scrolls would be nice, since I have to swap 2 pieces of gear (gloves, losing -4 to hit, and trinket, losing seeker) to use them without fail. Since my self-heals are significantly larger than scrolls (145 heal scroll, vs 140-210 csw), the more I could bar heal, the better. As it is, this character probably uses more of my mana pots than my sorc does, and gets more out of them in most cases. Just the bauble would let me bar-heal through every epic except dq1/dq2.

I've thought about crafting a 2nd concordant opposition boot item for extra sp regen, but I have a hard time justifying the removal of kundarak/firestorm greaves in all those situations .. they save more damage than I'd get back from extra sp. The combination of the radiance guard and the self-healing has let me run and contribute through epic quests with entire parties that couldn't help heal me, and while my dps beating on Raiyum with my positive shroud maul isn't the best, there's not very many melee characters out there who can dps raiyum in a group with a bunch of wf sorcs who can't heal them. Since I don't think there's really a quest that could be worse-suited for a crit-dependent, ac-focused, non-evasion build than epic chamber of raiyum, I figure that bodes pretty well. A better adamantite greater construct bane would go a long way, but using Adoryn's Malice with no shield has been adequate for removing golems even if I'm the only one dpsing them, and you don't need to kill most of them, so it works out pretty well.

Right now my raid-buffed ac tops out at 83, which combined with debuffs is enough to get pretty much straight grazed except when he rolls a 20 or possibly a 19, at least on hard. I haven't tanked an elite since we did the first american one 2 months ago (havent run an elite, actually, what with the traps doing 1200 damage in pt 1), so I'm not sure how much the to-hit scales between those two difficulties. I still need my ring out of ToD, so I still have another 2 ac to pick up. I expect I'll start tanking Horoth in power attack and not CE when I have it, I find myself far more worried about aggro generation (especially since I dropped levik's defender's +30%) than I do my incoming damage. I tanked a run with no bard last week, and the damage upgrade was noticable, as was not having a reliable recitation.

When I did tank our elite run, I got hammered pretty hard, though I don't think the resource cost was actually too extreme; I was still getting missed around half the time. However, that was when ray of enfeeblement still worked (though I had a few less ac then, too, and we didn't know how to time blasphemy to keep recitation and haste up, so I was probably -6 ac from the present in that run). I do think Horoth's to-hit was changed in Patch 1, the last run I tanked before upgrading my ac with the Vambraces, I took noticably less damage than the previous 18 runs, and I've since done a couple runs without ranger (ie, giving away the ac benefit of the vambraces) and continue to take less than I was before. I have no idea what his elite to-hit is like, though, since I'm not sadistic enough to ask a group to run through pt 1 in order to find out while the traps are bugged.

[Greipr]

I'm using the character planner and I can't fit all the enhancements you have listed. I'm at level 20 with 3 points remaining, but I haven't added human improved recovery 2 (4) or paladin charisma 2 (4) yet.

Are they all supposed to fit, or are those the recommended and change according to playstyle?

[Junts]

I'm using the character planner and I can't fit all the enhancements you have listed. I'm at level 20 with 3 points remaining, but I haven't added human improved recovery 2 (4) or paladin charisma 2 (4) yet.

Are they all supposed to fit, or are those the recommended and change according to playstyle?

Enhancements are very changable, and its entirely possible I didn't delete an enhancement when I listed them, or that I listed something I intend to take later (for example, I dont have improved recovery 2 right now: I'll be dropping human greater adapt: con for it as soon as I get a +4 con tome or socket one of my epic items with exceptional con +1).

Enhancements are very flexible.


edit: the answer is that in a couple places I have listed both what I have now and what I intend to pick up later after dropping, and didn't make that claer .. I'll fix it later. As you get different tomes and things, your enhancements change a lot becuase human adaptability lets you take advantage of almost any +1 statistic to save action points or move them to another area.

[Greipr]

This is what I have based off your build. I'm still a n00b but one that likes to plan. One thought was to make Dex 10 (go for a +3 tome to grab Dodge late - level 18 feat - not sure at what level those tomes become available), and to up Wisdom to 10. I've only played a Paladin to 6 but I feel funny with an 8 wisdom and not able to cast spells when they're available. Is there a specific low level + wisdom item to make that up? The other part I'm not sure about is whether to drop the balance and go concentration instead - since I haven't played a character that high not sure about my playstyle. Darn fixed skill points.

For enhancements I left off greater human adaptability and paladin charisma 2. I went with human recovery 2 and paladin toughness 3 to finish off the points. I'll drop human recovery 2 and bring in the stat add enhancements to fill out to round numbers as you recommended when appropriate.

Since I wont have the items to pull the full self-healing off I went with extend, sf: intimdate and shield mastery. Thoughts, Comments, Suggestions?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Intimitank Paladin
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 332
Spell Points: 205 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 24
Reflex: 15
Will: 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    19
Dexterity            10                    13
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         12                    13
Wisdom               10                    10
Charisma             16                    19

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 8
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 17
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 18

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                    10
Bluff                 3                     4
Concentration         2                     5
Diplomacy             3                     4
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                3                     4
Heal                  0                     0
Hide                  0                     1
Intimidate            7                    30
Jump                  6                     9
Listen                0                     0
Move Silently         0                     1
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                1                     1
Spot                  0                     0
Swim                  2                     4
Tumble                1                     4
Use Magic Device      5                    18

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I


Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I


Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I


Level 5 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I


Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III


Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II


Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II


Level 13 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III


Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I


Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II


Level 17 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II


Level 19 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III

[Junts]

+3 and +4 tomes take a lot of work to acquire; the fact that I have a full set shouldn't be taken as a sign that it will be easy to replicate. They're both only available as raid rewards, and most characters don't run around with full sets. You will not just be level 20, but be there for months, before you get any +3s, much less a specific one. I used to really want a +3 dex tome (before they added better dex items that fit into my gear) and spent something like 5 months hunting one without ever getting my hands on it (in fact, I ended up with every other stat).


As annoying as the wisdom thing will be for a few levels, its worth saying that A: you'll barely have the sp to cast at those levels anyway, and B: the house phiarlan owls wisdom 30 min buff is there for you. You will find that having 10 base wisdom becomes a mistake rather quickly on any paladin build.


Keep in mind that until you have some fairly high-end gear, the self-healing stuff won't work (the mana regen stuff is also raid loot), and you could spend the devotion enhancements on something else, too, until that time. In fact, since you aren't even taking those feats, devotion enhancements are pointless and you should toss 'em. I'm not sure shield mastery is the best feat, but if you intend to intimiblock a lot it isn't a bad one. I'd consider using the sf intim+shield mastery feats for two handed and improved two-handed fighting, as there'll be a fair amount of stuff where you are better off grabbing a bit weapon and whacking stuff, and the main reason I get away with not having them is that I have some really exceptional one-handers .. and I still swap to 2 handers decently often. Especially before you have the equipment to do tanking in higher-end situations, you'll want the option to grab a weapon and whack when someone else is tanking.

[Valezra]

You will find that having 10 base wisdom becomes a mistake rather quickly on any paladin build.

I went with 8 base on my DoS and am VERY happy with that decision. But I'm no spring chicken to building and oufitting characters either. I went into the 8 wisdom build knowing full well what I was doing... I probably wouldn't recommend it for new players.