Jaerlach, Defender of Siberys

[drwranck]

Tell me if i'm wrong, but going pure, you loose tower shield... so no more Levik? you go for large... of course epics are cool but for leveling and before you get em epics, what do you use? I've seen you post many time that you rarely use CE, would you think tower shield prof be a good swap as a prereq for DoS?

[ArtosKincaid]

You have an error in your enhancements. You need extra smite 4 to take divine sacrifice 3.

[Junts]

You have an error in your enhancements. You need extra smite 4 to take divine sacrifice 3.

So I've noticed. I'm ok with that; devotion 3 it is.

Re: tower shield, eh. too lazy to swap feats coming up, would rather kill things faster with 2hf all the time.

[sephiroth1084]

Have you considered swapping the Chattering Ring for the Frenzied Berserker or Ravager ring?

On Ferrum's life before TRing the first time, he had the following set-up:
AC set: DoS belt + Chattering Ring
DPS set: FB belt + FB ring
DoS ring on full time for the +1 Cha and healing amp

Ended up putting +1 exc Str on my Epic Vambraces because I was tired of gaining and losing that bonus with and without the FB ring, so the Berserker set gives +2 Str and +2 damage.

[drwranck]

have you noticed that with the upcomming update 7, paladins will gain Intimidate as a class skill???

i was asking for tower shield Vs CE because i plan on TR'ing my 18/2 build and was wondering if it would be better to keep tower without bothering for CE?? or if i understand correctly, you are mostly using 2hw even when tanking? i have yet to craft my GS weapons, should i go for Min2 / Light2 2hweapons? or keep khopesh?

[karl_k0ch]

I am also considering reincarnating into this build in U7, I am also thinking about the Tower Shield.

Wouldn't be Tower Shield a better choice than Dodge, netting +1 AC when in S&B mode (and -1 AC when THFing, which will be not so often the case, i guess)?

The inclusion of intimidate as a class skill will not change much to the build besides adding +12 to the intimidate score.

[Halaryel]

Uhm one question i don't think i've seen answered, what to use against Sorjek (undead version) and Abbot, or later in epics against monster with DR against slashing.

i was thinking about crafting a double(triple) pos greensteel, either maul or warhammer; yet i can not decide on 1hander or 2hander.

(edit, so i dont post again)

after update(edit date^^), i will probably TR into legend paladin, taking into account the new intimidation as class skill.

since today i'm the proud owner of torc of rayium after i won 2 roll, been denied one roll, thousand questions about why a (team) paladin may deserve a torc more than a (selfish-solo) divine/arcane (which shouldn't anyway be taking enough hit to justify its use in most raids)....

i've completed my conc opp cape and min II gogle, unfortunatly i only have the ressource to complete one more minII kopesh tonight (while doing my 20th shroud in order to cleanse my cape). I won't be able to make my falchion as minII, but by the time i'll run shroud again i'll have enough material with my other 20th toon (and i got a metalline falchion stored).

Friends gift me some very nice items, such as daggertooth belt to help me with ac at early stage, got all redfen items, and some epics items near ready (ringleader plate, antique greataxe, kundarak shield).

Thanks for build, more, thank for the insight; i will modify it a lil bit since i am TR from warrior(+1hit,+1ac+2intimi)+rogue(+2reflex).

Many cheers to you jaerlach, probably see you in a month with some feedback about how well it work as level 20

[drwranck]

what do you think about Half-elves, they get most of the benefits of human but the extra feat/skill.

[valorik]

what do you think about Half-elves, they get most of the benefits of human but the extra feat/skill.

So... You're giving up the feat/skill for what?

[sephiroth1084]

Uhm one question i don't think i've seen answered, what to use against Sorjek (undead version) and Abbot, or later in epics against monster with DR against slashing.

i was thinking about crafting a double(triple) pos greensteel, either maul or warhammer; yet i can not decide on 1hander or 2hander.

There is almost no threat of being hit in melee in The Abbot, end fight of Epic Wiz King, and only a small threat in SoS, so using a shield is often pointless. That said, I'd recommend making a maul, and then either carrying around a decent 1-hander or making one with Holy Sword (besides, I don't believe you can make a maul with HS).

I am also considering reincarnating into this build in U7, I am also thinking about the Tower Shield.

Wouldn't be Tower Shield a better choice than Dodge, netting +1 AC when in S&B mode (and -1 AC when THFing, which will be not so often the case, i guess)?

You can use the Madstone Shield once you get to level 14 if you want it for AC (and with DoS it doesn't matter whether you're using a mithral shield or not). Before then the extra AC is rarely worth the loss of attack bonus. Finally, the epic heavy shields are only 1 point of AC less, and can be made equal with a +7 AC bonus in the blue slot. If you want the DR or AC when you're intimiblocking, the penalty for being non-proficient with a tower doesn't matter, so you can use one anyway.

[Irinis]

So... You're giving up the feat/skill for what?

To have a super attractive half-elf character of course!

[drwranck]

Plz comment on the build, i tried to keep as much as the original. Changed Human for Horc, healing amp is lowered by 5% since i got past life paladin. Droped Dodge as the free human feat to keep khopesh.
Droped Concentration skill to max out my Intim (now a class skill). Gained Orcish Brute Fighting II (3AP), Orcish Fury II (3AP)and Orcish Power Atk II (3AP), wich can be changed to Orcish Strenght and Orcish melee dmg (thf)

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Kyresh T'Arus
Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(20 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 352
Spell Points: 235 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 15
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             17                    24
Dexterity            13                    15
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         11                    13
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             14                    17

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                     9
Bluff                 2                     3
Concentration         2                     8
Diplomacy             2                     3
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     3
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  1                     2
Intimidate            4                    26
Jump                  3                     7
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently         1                     2
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     1
Search                0                     1
Spot                 -1                     0
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                2                     3
Use Magic Device      4                    14

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Orcish Brute Fighting I
Enhancement: Orcish Brute Fighting II
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Orcish Fury II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II

[Halaryel]

So far so good, level 10, one level till conc opp/torc and 2 level till greensteel weapon, maximize and cureII.

**** about AP
#Divine Sacrifice, it seems to me the only difference between each tiers is +2D6 damage, which is imho not worth the 2AP then 3AP not to mention the requirement Extra Smite III & Extra Smite IV;

#Religion, why do you put 6AP into a 1time heal, still awesome heal since it remove all effect including death effect; but i would tend to think a group were i die often enough to regret not to be able to cleanse dollur touch merit either i recall/disband or a good sweet wipe....

Here thats 11AP saved to maybe take some interesting stuff, including deneith intimi II and paladin intimi IV

i aggre about not taking DMIV, i prefer spend my level up point into a perma +1hit/1dmg from STR to a +2dmg boost from charisma


****About intimidate and main hand weapon

instead of : Dodge, Kopesh, CE
when i acquire epic chimera fang i will go to : Least Dragonmark of sentinel, Lesser dragonmark of sentinel, Past life fight.

Thats a gain of +6 intimidate :
+2 least dragonmark
+2 past life fighter
+2 deneiht intimidate enhancement (unlocked by Lesser dragonmark)

This should make me able to tank... HoX elite and Epic Lailat Queen. While loosing nothing to the build.

I Keep the same 2hand abilities (Epic SoS and Epic Xuum)
And Epic chimera is :
2d10+6 base damage
+ Shocking burst
+ Lightning Strike
+ Maiming
+ Destruction
+ Silver (red slot)
+ good (capstone)
+ 4 insight (lesser mark)
+ Proficiency bastard (least mark)
Sadly its only a 19-20(x2) weapon but considering you'll be using 2hander on trash and 1hander on bosses (which usually have about 50% fort. its become a very effective weapon with beater and LitII and destruction

[Meetch1972]

Ok, now a full 23 ranks of Intim can be achieved as of U7, is an LR in order to utilise this or shift the 11 extra skillups to something else? Maybe this build can jump now...

Just curious to see what difference to the build this change might make here (all pally builds actually).

Thoughts?

[karl_k0ch]

#Religion, why do you put 6AP into a 1time heal, still awesome heal since it remove all effect including death effect; but i would tend to think a group were i die often enough to regret not to be able to cleanse dollur touch merit either i recall/disband or a good sweet wipe....

Any of the Tier III Paladin PrEs require the second tier of the religion. You have to take it, whether you like it or not.

[Halaryel]

about the 23 ranks, you have to LR to get benefit;

23 ranks
+ 4 GH
+ 2 luck
+ 7 charisma (16+2 base or 14+4 base; +6item)
+ 20 items (id use brawn spirit epic while intimi/shield tanking)
+ 2 coin lord
+ 4 enhancement(class)
+ 2 enhancement(human)
+ 2 past life: fighter
+ 2 Lesser dragon mark
+ 6 Greensteel
= 74 intimi

maybe you could get skill focus : intimi (at the expense of toughness power attack, maximize, quicken, imp critical); which i dont think is wise, that would impair too much your hate tanking or healing ability; maybe quicken, but i have yet now idea how it would work without quicken.

with a better base charisma, and +1from human and +1 exceptional (that fit in a colorless slot!) you'd get the remaining +5 for epic lailat and elite hound = 79 intimi.

with a bit less of starting strenght and more charisma, +4book, paladin charisma enhancement, +1+2 exceptionnal charisma and +7 charisma item, i think that possible without SF:intimi.

tell me if i am missing anything for the breakdown.



about religion, bleh

[sephiroth1084]

about the 23 ranks, you have to LR to get benefit;

23 ranks
+ 4 GH
+ 2 luck
+ 7 charisma (16+2 base or 14+4 base; +6item)
+ 20 items (id use brawn spirit epic while intimi/shield tanking)
+ 2 coin lord
+ 4 enhancement(class)
+ 2 enhancement(human)
+ 2 past life: fighter
+ 2 Lesser dragon mark
+ 6 Greensteel
= 74 intimi

maybe you could get skill focus : intimi (at the expense of toughness power attack, maximize, quicken, imp critical); which i dont think is wise, that would impair too much your hate tanking or healing ability; maybe quicken, but i have yet now idea how it would work without quicken.

with a better base charisma, and +1from human and +1 exceptional (that fit in a colorless slot!) you'd get the remaining +5 for epic lailat and elite hound = 79 intimi.

with a bit less of starting strenght and more charisma, +4book, paladin charisma enhancement, +1+2 exceptionnal charisma and +7 charisma item, i think that possible without SF:intimi.

tell me if i am missing anything for the breakdown.



about religion, bleh

I don't think you're missing anything on the numbers side, but in terms of practicality this just won't really work well on a paladin. They are simply stretched too thinly on feats and enhancements to be spending so much on Intimidate, as strong a skill as it is, especially since it isn't necessary for 99.9% of the game to have that much intim, and because paladins get such excellent tools for threat-tanking.

[Halaryel]

basicaly what i think will be my end build is the same as jaerlach but here the changes :

starting stats
-2 starting strenght (17 to 15) free 5 points
+2 starting charisma (4 points)
+1 dex
=> require good books +4 books.
=> you just loose +1/+1 dmg/hit; but see conclusion

feats :
1: Toughness > ok
H: Khopesh > Least Sentinel
3: Dodge > Past life fighter (-0 AC +2 intimi, require enough dex)
6: Power Attack > ok
9: Improved crit: slash > ok
12: Combat Expertise > Lesser Sentinel
15: Maximize Spell > ok
18: Quicken Spell > maybe SF: intimi if required; but i think 79 is possible without

=> You basicaly loose nothing, and considering it is a END BUILD and chimera fang socketed with silver is better than ANY kopesh i know including epics and considering an minimum of 50% fort on raid bosses; you actually Gain hate!

conclusion:

it is an end game build, it require 36 Points (2 past life) including FIGHTER as past life; it also require +4 books to work and heavy gear.
This build can both HATE tank and INTIMI TANK; it can do 100% of the game content;
you are right jaerlach can do 99.9% but with 2 TR, book and chimera fang it could do 100%

why be happy with 99.9% when you can do 100%?

It will sure take me a long time to get the required books; epics aren't so hard to get compared, even redscale plate is a piece of cake to get compared to the +4 books imho; but it is achievable.

until i get fang i'll stay with kopeshes as 1hander. those change, don't change anything to your hate tanking output, i know it sound like an heresy to talk about anything that is NOT kopesh, but i dare.

Since junts like to stay with kopesh, when i'm done building, testing, gathering stuff; i'll post the build and result. until then, i'll stay with jaerlach build, i just switched one feat to past life fighter so i can intimi anything that is not lailat/hox.


editing to answer:
Enhancement, i remove 1 loh and only take Divine Sacrifice 1
Hate, you loose nothing in 2HF, you gain in S&b against fortified bosses (i don't know any end game raid bosse without at least 50% fort).
CE, when using chattering/redscale/+4dex book you won't ever need CE ever again against anything
1 to hit, jaerlach seems to be fine in epic without fighter Past Life, i am guessing that my past life cover it, plus i have clicky (past life fighter)of +4hit for when i'm hitting something thats have really high AC, such as epic djinns or big top boss.

again, jaerlach build can do 99.9% of the game (if you LR to get the remaining intimi points)
mine, is like a jaerlach build with 2 TR; i am pretty sure it is the kind of build he would go if he ever manage to get a set of +4books.

[sephiroth1084]

What I meant about 99.9% was that a 70+ intimidate isn't required for that much of the game, and that turtling up, which is presumably what one would be doing while intimidating the few things that require that kind of score, is also not necessary for most of the game so planning for just that handful of encounters vs. the entirety of the rest of the game seems silly.

Losing -1 to-hit is a little tough on a paladin in epics, even with the fighter's PL clicky.
Losing CE means that for some encounters you'll be getting hit quite a bit while trying to hate tank.

In you breakdown you ascribed 6 AP to intimidate. That's a rather large portion of a paladin's AP.

[sephiroth1084]

Hey Junts, what is Jaer's HP like when tanking (Horoth for example)?

Twice now I've been main tanking and died to a rolled 1 vs. Disintegrate when either a little low on HP or with 2 badges following right afterward, and honestly, 2 times over a short span seems like too much.

Ferrumrym is sitting at 607 HP when tanking I think (Con: 15 base + 2 tome +6 item +1 ship +4 stance = 28; GFL, +45 Shroud, +10 favor +40 enhancements, Toughness, Minos, Yugo).

I could net another 20 with a +4 tome, another with a +7 Con item and +1 exceptional or +2 exceptional (though I have no idea where I'd fit anything but the +1 in), +3 tome and +2 ship shrine (coming soon) or +2 ship and +1 exceptional (if I can get my Spectrals epic'ed I may do this instead of including Resist +4). So, it looks like 647, and maybe 667 with absolutely everything.