Review of TWF relative DPS

[gfunk]

I don't understand this calculation...

It's assuming 100% sneak attack damage? how is that relevant, who ever gets 100% sneak attack damage?

I mean the closest thing you could get to that would be using dual radiance rapiers I suppose, but this calc has "1d4 slicing duel shard" in it, which is a MinII Calc.

I just don't understand how this is a relevant damage calc when it's only applicable for very short bursts (i dont even mean clickies or abilities, I mean getting backstab damage).

Am I missing something?

it is a point of reference. If you read the thread you would see that I have posted numbers for various builds with and without sneak attack. all assumptions are clearly stated.

[Nick_RC]

Just wanted to stop by and say love thi thread I refer to it as a baseline often.

Quick note: Might wanna add Situational 50 to the double frenzy barb for damage boost. Hell everything seems to be boosted may as well inclyde the crappy barb damage boost all things being equal

[Milamber69]

Just wanted to stop by and say love thi thread I refer to it as a baseline often.

Quick note: Might wanna add Situational 50 to the double frenzy barb for damage boost. Hell everything seems to be boosted may as well inclyde the crappy barb damage boost all things being equal

Go to sleep!

[gfunk]

Just wanted to stop by and say love thi thread I refer to it as a baseline often.

Quick note: Might wanna add Situational 50 to the double frenzy barb for damage boost. Hell everything seems to be boosted may as well inclyde the crappy barb damage boost all things being equal

Thx, glad to hear that this is useful for people.

Easy enough to do the numbers with the damage boost in. I didn't even think about it previously, probably because I dislike damage boosts though I guess there isn't any other option on the barb. Thx for pointing that one out.

WF Double Frezied Barbarian with damage boost IV
main / offhand
5.0 / 5.0 .. weapon
7.0 / 7.0 .. inspire courage
1.0 / 1.0 .. prayer
5.0 / 5.0 .. damage boost +5
11.0 / 11.0 .. power attack
.......... .. 33 unbuffed str (18bse, 5 lvlup, 6 item, 4 tome)
........... .. 8 str (mighty rage)
........... .. 4 str (power rage iv)
........... .. 2 str (capstone)
........... .. 2 str (frenzy)
........... .. 4 str (death frenzy)
........... .. 2 str (rage)
........... .. 2 str (madstone 1)
........... .. 2 str (madstone 2)
24.0 / 12.0 .. 59 str (total)
53.0 / 41.0 .. total damage modifier

58.5 / 46.5 .. avg regular damage (GS Khopesh)
193.5 / 157.5 .. avg crit damage (+6 dmg to crits w/ bloodstone)
322.5 / 262.5 .. avg (19 or 20) crit damage (GS Khopesh)
43.9 / 34.9 .. weighted reg damage (*15/20)
19.4 / 15.8 .. weighted crit damage (*2/20)
32.3 / 26.3 .. weighted (19 or 20) crit damage (*2/20)
95.5 / 76.9 .. Average unhasted damage per swing
20.0 / 20.0 .. Average vicious + greater damage (6d6)
7.6 / 7.6 .. tharnes (8*19/20)
123.0 / 104.4 .. subtotal

6.7 / 6.7 .. 2d6 holy tier I (7*19/20)
3.3 / 3.3 .. 1d6 acid tier II (3.5*19/20)
2.2 / 2.2 .. 2d10 acid on crit tier II (11*4/20)
0.7 / 0.7 .. 4d6 acid on 20 tier III(14*1/20)
2.4 / 2.4 .. 1d4 slicing duel shard (2.5*19/20)
15.3 / 15.3 .. total weapon effects
138.3 / 119.7 .. base + sneak attack + weapon effects

5.0 / 5.0 .. # of attacks per round
691.4 / 598.4 .. total avg damage per round
1289.8 .. total main + off hand
451.4 .. DPS

[Nick_RC]

Hey if you got time bro would you be able to put this one in there.

Monster template but 2 barb levels instead of monk. I Had a 'monster' at 20 shroud completions when the thread was posted but deleted in favour of 2 barb levels. I like to thumb my nose at ac and evasion and the result is a little more dps.

+1 PA
+4 strength over 5ish minutes.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=147

For reference.

CHeers

N

[BlackSteel]

since the FB DPS for TWF is just above, I'll post this here for giggles

you can determine at what attacks/minute that a THF would overtake a TWF by working backwards from all the information you have listed. Just change the STR bonus/PA/and personally I'd swap bloodstone for LOTD.

glancing blows you can calculate at 50% or 33% depending just how you're moving, with frenzy always procing, and other elemental damage proc'ing 30% of the time.

gives me an on hit total of 195.55 for a WF with a greataxe

so 452 DPS = 195.55 x (attacks/min) / 60
138.7 attacks/minute

so a THF barb would deal more DPS than a TWF barb when they can produce more than 138 attacks/minute, on a single target. In this scenario GB's are adding nearly 80 DPS, so each additional target would contribute the same.

Mostly anyone can obtain 120-130 while moving with THF, its not that hard. It takes alot of practice to get above 135 tho.

[gfunk]

this is a reference post for the following thread:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...97#post2179997
I used Cforces attack timings spreadsheed to convert to dps

uber Strength Based Tempest Ranger (duel min II khopeshs, tharnes, bloodstone,madstone)
main / offhand
5.0 / 5.0 .. weapon
7.0 / 7.0 .. inspire courage
1.0 / 1.0 .. prayer
5.0 / 5.0 .. power attack
2.0 / 2.0 .. rams might
12.0 / 12.0 .. favored enemy damage
.......... .. 30 unbuffed str (18bse, 4lvlup, 6 item, 2 tome)
........... .. 2 str (rams)
........... .. 2 str (rage)
........... .. 2 str (madstone 1)
13.0 / 6.0 .. 36 str (total)
45.0 / 38.0 .. total damage modifier
50.5 / 43.5 .. avg regular damage (GS Khopesh)
169.5 / 148.5 .. avg crit damage (+6 dmg to crits w/ bloodstone)
42.9 / 37.0 .. weighted reg damage (*17/20)
17.0 / 14.9 .. weighted crit damage (*2/20)
3.8 / 3.8 .. tharnes (8*19/20)
63.7 / 55.6 .. Average damage per swing

6.7 / 6.7 .. 2d6 holy tier I (7*19/20)
2.4 / 2.4 .. 1d4 slicing duel shard (2.5*19/20)
9.0 9.0 .. total weapon effects (null for all acid damage)
72.7 64.7 .. base + sneak attack + weapon effects

5.0 / 5.0 .. # of attacks per round
363.5 / 323.3 .. total avg damage per round
686.8 .. total main + off hand
261.0 .. DPS

moderate Strength Based Tempest Ranger (min II khopesh main/+5 transmuter offhand, bloodstone, madstone,backstabber gloves)
main / offhand
5.0 / 5.0 .. weapon
7.0 / 7.0 .. inspire courage
1.0 / 1.0 .. prayer
5.0 / 5.0 .. power attack
2.0 / 2.0 .. rams might
12.0 / 12.0 .. favored enemy damage
.......... .. 30 unbuffed str (18bse, 4lvlup, 6 item, 2 tome)
........... .. 2 str (rams)
........... .. 2 str (rage)
........... .. 2 str (madstone 1)
13.0 / 6.0 .. 36 str (total)
45.0 / 38.0 .. total damage modifier
50.5 / 42.5 .. avg regular damage (GS Khopesh main, transmuter offhand)
169.5 / 145.5 .. avg crit damage (+6 dmg to crits w/ bloodstone)
42.9 / 36.1 .. weighted reg damage (*17/20)
17.0 / 14.6 .. weighted crit damage (*2/20)
0.95 / 0.95 .. backstabber gloves(8*19/20)/2
60.8 / 51.6 .. Average damage per swing

6.7 / .. 2d6 holy tier I (7*19/20)
2.4 / .. 1d4 slicing duel shard (2.5*19/20)
9.0 .. total weapon effects (null for all acid damage)
69.9 51.6 .. base + sneak attack + weapon effects

5.0 / 5.0 .. # of attacks per round
349.3 / 258.1 .. total avg damage per round
607.4 .. total main + off hand
230.8 .. DPS


casual Strength Based Tempest Ranger (+5 transmutering khopeshes)
main / offhand
5.0 / 5.0 .. weapon
7.0 / 7.0 .. inspire courage
1.0 / 1.0 .. prayer
5.0 / 5.0 .. power attack
2.0 / 2.0 .. rams might
12.0 / 12.0 .. favored enemy damage
.......... .. 28 unbuffed str (17bse, 4lvlup, 6 item, 1 tome)
........... .. 2 str (rams)
........... .. 2 str (rage)
11.0 / 5.0 .. 32 str (total)
43.0 / 37.0 .. total damage modifier
47.5 / 41.5 .. avg regular damage (duel +5 transmuters)
142.5 / 124.5 .. avg crit damage (no bloodstone)
40.4 / 35.3 .. weighted reg damage (*17/20)
14.3 / 12.5 .. weighted crit damage (*2/20)
0.95 / 0.95 .. backstabber gloves(8*19/20)/2
55.6 / 48.7 .. Average damage per swing



55.6 48.7 .. base + sneak attack + weapon effects

5.0 / 5.0 .. # of attacks per round
277.9 / 243.4 .. total avg damage per round
521.3 .. total main + off hand
198.1 .. DPS


uninformed Strength Based Tempest Ranger (+5 holy longswords)
main / offhand
5.0 / 5.0 .. weapon
7.0 / 7.0 .. inspire courage
1.0 / 1.0 .. prayer
0.0 / 0.0 .. didn’t take power attack
2.0 / 2.0 .. rams might
12.0 / 12.0 .. favored enemy damage
.......... .. 28 unbuffed str (17bse, 4lvlup, 6 item, 1 tome)
........... .. 2 str (rams)
........... .. 2 str (rage)
11.0 / 5.0 .. 32 str (total)
38.0 / 32.0 .. total damage modifier
42.5 / 36.5 .. avg regular damage (duel +5 holy longswords)
85.0 / 73.0 .. avg crit damage (no bloodstone)
36.1 / 31.0 .. weighted reg damage (*17/20)
8.5 / 7.3 .. weighted crit damage (*2/20)

44.6 / 38.3 .. Average damage per swing
-15.0 / -15.0 .. penalty for not bypassing dr (on normal)
29.6 / 23.3 .. total average damage per swing
6.7 / 6.7 .. 2d6 holy damage
36.3 30.0 .. base + sneak attack + weapon effects

5.0 / 5.0 .. # of attacks per round
181.4 / 149.9 .. total avg damage per round
331.3 .. total main + off hand
125.9 .. DPS

uninformed sword and board fighter (+5 holy longsword)
main / offhand
5.0 / .. weapon
7.0 / .. inspire courage
1.0 / .. prayer
0.0 / .. didn’t take power attack
2.0 / .. fighter enh
4.0 / .. weapon specializations
.......... .. 32 unbuffed str (18bse, 4lvlup, 6 item, 1 tome,3enh)

........... .. 2 str (rage)
12.0 / .. 34 str (total)
31.0 / .. total damage modifier
35.5 / .. avg regular damage (duel +5 holy longswords)
71.0 / .. avg crit damage (no bloodstone)
30.2 / .. weighted reg damage (*17/20)
7.1 / .. weighted crit damage (*2/20)

37.3 / .. Average damage per swing
-15.0 / .. penalty for not bypassing dr (on normal)
22.3 / .. total average damage per swing
6.7 / .. 2d6 holy damage
28.9 .. base + sneak attack + weapon effects

5.0 / .. # of attacks per round
144.6 / .. total avg damage per round
144.6 .. total main + off hand
54.1 DPS

moderate Strength Based Tempest ranger without buffs (min II khopesh main/+5 transmuter offhand, bloodstone, madstone, backstabber gloves)
main / offhand
5.0 / 5.0 .. weapon
0.0 / 0.0 .. inspire courage
0.0 / 0.0 .. prayer
5.0 / 5.0 .. power attack
2.0 / 2.0 .. rams might
12.0 / 12.0 .. favored enemy damage
.......... .. 30 unbuffed str (18bse, 4lvlup, 6 item, 2 tome)
........... .. 2 str (rams)
11.0 / 5.0 .. 32 str (total)
35.0 / 29.0 .. total damage modifier
40.5 / 33.5 .. avg regular damage (GS Khopesh main, transmuter offhand)
139.5 / 118.5 .. avg crit damage (+6 dmg to crits w/ bloodstone)
34.4 / 28.5 .. weighted reg damage (*17/20)
14.0 / 11.9 .. weighted crit damage (*2/20)
0.95 / 0.95 .. backstabber gloves(8*19/20)/2
49.3 / 41.3 .. Average damage per swing

6.7 / .. 2d6 holy tier I (7*19/20)
2.4 / .. 1d4 slicing duel shard (2.5*19/20)
9.0 .. total weapon effects (null for all acid damage)
58.4 41.3 .. base + sneak attack + weapon effects

5.0 / 5.0 .. # of attacks per round
291.8 / 206.4 .. total avg damage per round
498.1 .. total main + off hand
189.3 .. DPS

casual Strength Based Tempest ranger without buffs (+5 transmuting khopeshes)
main / offhand
5.0 / 5.0 .. weapon
0.0 / 0.0 .. inspire courage
0.0 / 0.0 .. prayer
5.0 / 5.0 .. power attack
2.0 / 2.0 .. rams might
12.0 / 12.0 .. favored enemy damage
.......... .. 28 unbuffed str (17bse, 4lvlup, 6 item, 1 tome)
........... .. 2 str (rams)
10.0 / 5.0 .. 30 str (total)
34.0 / 29.0 .. total damage modifier
38.5 / 33.5 .. avg regular damage (duel +5 transmuters)
115.5 / 100.5 .. avg crit damage (no bloodstone)
32.7 / 28.5 .. weighted reg damage (*17/20)
11.6 / 10.1 .. weighted crit damage (*2/20)
0.95 / 0.95 .. backstabber gloves(8*19/20)/2
45.2 / 39.5 .. Average damage per swing




45.2 39.5 .. base + sneak attack + weapon effects

5.0 / 5.0 .. # of attacks per round
226.1 / 197.4 .. total avg damage per round
423.5 .. total main + off hand
160.9 .. DPS

uninformed Strength Based Tempest Ranger without buffs(longswords)
main / offhand
5.0 / 5.0 .. weapon
0.0 / 0.0 .. inspire courage
0.0 / 0.0 .. prayer
0.0 / 0.0 .. didn’t take power attack
2.0 / 2.0 .. rams might
12.0 / 12.0 .. favored enemy damage
.......... .. 28 unbuffed str (17bse, 4lvlup, 6 item, 1 tome)
........... .. 2 str (rams)
10.0 / 5.0 .. 30 str (total)
29.0 / 24.0 .. total damage modifier
33.5 / 28.5 .. avg regular damage (duel +5 holy longswords)
67.0 / 57.0 .. avg crit damage (no bloodstone)
28.5 / 24.2 .. weighted reg damage (*17/20)
6.7 / 5.7 .. weighted crit damage (*2/20)

35.2 / 29.9 .. Average damage per swing
-15.0 / -15.0 .. penalty for not bypassing dr (on normal)
20.2 / 14.9 .. total average damage per swing

6.7 / 6.7 .. 2d6 holy damage
26.8 21.6 .. base + sneak attack + weapon effects

5.0 / 5.0 .. # of attacks per round
134.1 / 107.9 .. total avg damage per round
242.0 .. total main + off hand
92.0 .. DPS

uninformed sword and board fighter without buffs(+5 holy longsword)
main / offhand
5.0 / .. weapon
0.0 / .. inspire courage
0.0 / .. prayer
0.0 / .. didn’t take power attack
2.0 / .. fighter enh
4.0 / .. weapon specializations
.......... .. 32 unbuffed str (18bse, 4lvlup, 6 item, 1 tome,3enh)
........... ..
11.0 / .. 30 str (total)
22.0 / .. total damage modifier
26.5 / .. avg regular damage (duel +5 holy longswords)
53.0 / .. avg crit damage (no bloodstone)
22.5 / .. weighted reg damage (*17/20)
5.3 / .. weighted crit damage (*2/20)

27.8 / .. Average damage per swing
-15.0 / .. penalty for not bypassing dr (on normal)
12.8 / .. total average damage per swing

6.7 / .. 2d6 holy damage
19.5 .. base + sneak attack + weapon effects

5.0 / .. # of attacks per round
97.4 / .. total avg damage per round
97.4 .. total main + off hand
36.4 DPS

[LargeMarge]

First...this thread is AWSOME!!!

Really nice job!!

I was wondering if you should include the 1 min +4 Str bonus from the Bladesworn Transformation that a lvl 6 WF paly gets? Do you think that these bonuses should get added to the WF Pure Paly build and the WF Tempest Paly builds?

I know that I end up using Bladesworn Transformation when I am in a big fight. And after I tell the cleric that I am about to use it.

[gfunk]

First...this thread is AWSOME!!!

Really nice job!!

I was wondering if you should include the 1 min +4 Str bonus from the Bladesworn Transformation that a lvl 6 WF paly gets? Do you think that these bonuses should get added to the WF Pure Paly build and the WF Tempest Paly builds?

I know that I end up using Bladesworn Transformation when I am in a big fight. And after I tell the cleric that I am about to use it.

I was under the impression that bladesworn transformation was only for great swords, though I freely admit my in-experience with this enhancement. Has there been an update to it, or am I just missing something?

[LargeMarge]

I was under the impression that bladesworn transformation was only for great swords, though I freely admit my in-experience with this enhancement. Has there been an update to it, or am I just missing something?

The bladesworn transformation adds a +4 Str bonus for one min...reguardless of what weapon you are using.

It also has other bonuses...but I can't recall all of them right now. I'll check it tonight when I get home.

[gfunk]

The bladesworn transformation adds a +4 Str bonus for one min...reguardless of what weapon you are using.

It also has other bonuses...but I can't recall all of them right now. I'll check it tonight when I get home.

That being the case, the str bonus should be applied. Hopefully I can get around to adding that in shortly, however I have been a bit pre-occupied with real life work as of late..

[gfunk]

edited smiting numbers, which affected the knight of chalice, and tempest/knight of chalice numbers. I had added in smites, but forgot to remove a regular attack to compensate. It effectively gave an extra attack.

[osirisisis]

Ya gfunk great post, well done.

Is there a way U could get a rouf average on the scorge choker and add that to the warforge builds?

[spyderwolf]

** NEW chart (damage per round), with weapon effects and buffs (see post on page 3 for details, link below)
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=46
See Post #2 for DPS numbers using Cforces Attack speed timings


Damage per round multiplied be speed boost(s)
689.8 .. Halfling twf 18 cleric / 2 monk without sneak attack: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2103399&postcount=95
764.0 .. Warforged Strength Based Assassin w/o sneak attack/backstabbing
765.8.. Halfling twf 18 cleric / 2 monk with sneak attack:http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2103399&postcount=95
806.3.. Halfling twf 18 cleric / 2 monk with divine might II and sneak attack
833.3.. Halfling twf 18 cleric / 2 monk with divine might III and sneak attack
839.3 .. Elf Dex Based Tempest Ranger with rapiers, vs non-favored (Leafy, in sig.. sigh..dont nerf me!)
847.3 .. Dwarf Strength based Rogue13/Ranger 6/Barbarian 1 (dwarven axes), vs non-favored, no sneak attack
862.7 .. Halfling Rogue13/Ranger 6/Barbarian 1 (khopesh) vs non favored without sneak attack or haste boost http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=175534
878.9 .. Dwarf twfstalwart defender http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=174962
913.3 .. Human "The Exploiter" vs. non-favored, no sneak attack (khopesh) http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168687
971.2 .. Warfored Strength based tempest ranger vs non favored
975.5.. Warfored Critical Rage II Barbarian w/ khopeshes
985.0 .. Warfored Critical Rage II Barbarian w/ heavy picks
1025.5 .. Warfored Knight of the Chalice, vs non- evil outsiders (with 1d6 vs evil) (16 bse str) http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=174590 *
1040.5 .. Warforged Frezy I Barbarian
1051.1 .. Elf Dex Based Tempest Ranger with rapiers, vs favored (Leafy, in sig)
1054.7 .. Dwarf twf stalwart defender haste boosted 20% http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=174962
1074.7 .. Warforged "Monster" vs. nonfavoredhttp://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=172630
1071.5 .. Warforged Tempest I Knight of the Chalice II vs non-favored/outsiders http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=174590 *
1077.3 .. Warforged "Colossus" http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=173631
1078.0 .. Dwarf 14/6 barb(crit rage II)/ranger w/ dwarven axes vs non- favoredhttp://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=174667
1081.6 .. Warforged Kensai Fighter without strength surge
1113.5 .. Human Kensai Fighter with khopesh and damage boost +5 (compare with haste boost +30%) http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2101964&postcount=86
1119.3 .. Halfling kensai fighter with khopesh and sneak attack (guile)
1129.4 .. Warforged Kensai fighter with strength surge
1130.3 .. Warforged Death Frezy Barbarian
1163.8 .. Warforged "Monster" vs. favored http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=172630
1167.1 .. Dwarf 14/6 barb(crit rage II)/ranger w/ dwarven axes vs favored http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=174667
1184.0 .. Human "The Exploiter" vs favored including sneak attack/backstab(khopesh) http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168687
1187.8.. Halfling "tinyterror" fighter 12/rogue7/barbarian1 with sneak attackhttp://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=176374
1199.9 .. Warforged Strength based tempest ranger vs. favored
1212.3.. Warforged Double Frezied Barbarian
1244.9.. Warforged Knight of the Chalice, vs evil outsiders, w/zeal (16 bse str) assumes acid damage http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=174590 *
1249.9.. Warforged Tempest I Knight of the Chalice II, vs evil outsiders, w/zeal (16 bse str) assumes acid damage http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=174590 *
1261.0 .. Halfing rogue pure dps build while backstabbing **
1275.0.. Warforged Strength based assassin while backstabbing
1285.1.. Halfling dex based Rogue 13 (acrobat)/Ranger(tempest)6/monk 1, vs favored, w/sneak attack http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2159257&postcount=136
1289.8.. Warforged Double Frezied Barbarian with damage boost IV http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2163181&postcount=144
1304.6.. Dwarf Strength based Rogue13/Ranger 6(tempest)/Barbarian 1 (dwarven axes), vs favored, w/sneak attack
1343.8 .. Human Kensai Fighter with khopesh and haste boost +30% (compare with damage boost +5) http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2101964&postcount=86
1361.6 .. Human "The exploiter" vs favored including sneak attack/backstab(khopesh) w/haste boost I http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168687 *
1400.4.. Warforged Colossus haste boosted +30% http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=173631
1468.3 .. Warforged Kensai fighter while hasted boosted +30%
1416.8 .. Halfling Rogue13/Ranger 6/Barbarian 1 (khopesh) vs favored, w/sneak attack http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=175534
1512.9 .. Warforged "Monster" vs favored haste boosted +30% http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=172630
1455.0 .. halfling kensai fighter with khopesh, sneak attack (guile) and haste boost +30%
1544.1.. Halfling "tinyterror" fighter 12/rogue7/barbarian1 with sneak attack, haste boosted +30% http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=176374
1432.8 .. Warforged Tempest I Knight of the Chalice II, smiting 1/round, w/zeal vs evil outsiders (16bse str) assumes acid damage
1486.8 .. Warforged Knight of the Chalice smiting 1/round, w/zeal vs evil outsiders (16bse str) assumes acid damagehttp://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=174590 *
1657.5 .. Warforged assassin incl backstabbing, sneak attack, haste boosted +30%
1670.5 .. Halfing assassin incl backstabbing, sneak attack, haste boosted+30% http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2089146&postcount=54**
1670.6 .. Halfling dex based Rogue 13 (acrobat)/Ranger(tempest)6/monk 1, vs favored, w/sneak attack , haste boosted +30% http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2159257&postcount=136
1696.0 .. Dwarf Rogue13 (acrobat)/Ranger 6/Barbarian 1 (dwarven axes), vs favored, w/sneak attack, haste boosted +30%
1841.8 .. Halfling Rogue13 (acrobat) /Ranger 6/Barbarian 1 (khopesh) vs favored, w/sneak attack, haste boosted +30% http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=175534
1876.2 .. Halfling Rogue13 (assassin) /Ranger 6/Barbarian 1 (khopesh) vs favored, w/sneak attack, haste boosted +30%

* example in posted thread is Human, not Warforged. changed to WF here for consistancy, though I'll probably add in a human version at some point.
** I think its hilarious that the tiny halfling is the current king of (situational) swing... vicious little buggers
builds are indicated in green when their position in the dps chart is dependant on short-term effects (I did not include strength surge as a short term effect... yet)
builds are indicated in blue when their position in the dps chard is dependant on situational damage like backstabbing and favored enemies
builds are indicated in red when their position in the dps chard is dependant on taking damage

People have been argueing quite a bit about the relative dps of the various classes... often without any basis or numerical evidence to back up their arguements. To help provide some background, here are some comparisons of some generic versions str based versions of the various dps builds. They are the Kensai Fighter, Tempest Ranger, Frenzied Barbarian, Assassin, and Knight of the Chalice.

I calculated damage per swing/round assuming that all classes would all be using mineral 2 weaponry, would be double madstoned, and have a bloodstone. generic builds listed below are mostly warforged, builds that i will be comparing will be typically left as their original race (for example the dwarf barbarian). If people detect errors or important omissions, I will correct and modify the numbers. I did not look into dps (damage per second) per se, because of disagreement in exactly how fast attack occur.

Some of the unknowns are how exactly haste boosts/alacrity/spells stack with each other. Cforce has a whole thread currently designated to that problem.

i bet this post is at least 5 times longer than what we see becuase of all the different color changes each line lol :P

[spyderwolf]

edited smiting numbers, which affected the knight of chalice, and tempest/knight of chalice numbers. I had added in smites, but forgot to remove a regular attack to compensate. It effectively gave an extra attack.

and btw leafy. you can smite and not break your attack sequence.

[Xyfiel]

Wanted numbers for:

Warforged Crit rage II Barbarian 14/6 fighter kensai
twf heavy picks
tier II haste boost

same as above but with rogue 6 assassin

[gfunk]

Wanted numbers for:

Warforged Crit rage II Barbarian 14/6 fighter kensai
twf heavy picks
tier II haste boost

same as above but with rogue 6 assassin

I think I have something similar, so this, so this shouldn't be too bad to look into. I haven't been watching the thread for a couple of weeks. I'll try and catch up on some of this stuff.

and btw leafy. you can smite and not break your attack sequence.

hmm.. its unfortunate I haven't had a paladin for over 2 years.. and that was a lowbie. I'm sure that some of the subtleties are lost on me as a result.

Ya gfunk great post, well done.

Is there a way U could get a rouf average on the scorge choker and add that to the warforge builds?

I could maybe look into a few of them as a special case... there are alot of WF listed in this thread though. I focused on them a bit because of their PA enhancement line.

[gfunk]

Ya gfunk great post, well done.

Is there a way U could get a rouf average on the scorge choker and add that to the warforge builds?

Wanted numbers for:

Warforged Crit rage II Barbarian 14/6 fighter kensai
twf heavy picks
tier II haste boost

same as above but with rogue 6 assassin

I am trying some new formating, that hopefully makes this easier to follow. I also changed where I said "damage per round" to "damage per one complete attack sequence", as some people found this misleading. I also added damage onto the 3rd tier of the weapons that is more consistant with the updated tier III descriptions (I was using the old one before). I didn't include the scourge choker on the assassin variant, as that wouldn't make alot of sense (i.e. you would lose scourge effect quickly if you were backstabbing). I also added a dps catagory for haste boosts called "effective" dps (not in table, see details further down). This attempts to quantify the effect of the pause taken while activating haste boost, and then spreads 5 haste boosts over 150 seconds. roughly this gives 5 seconds of 0 dps, 95 seconds of boosted dps, and 50 seconds of normal dps.

hasted - w/ haste boost I - w/ haste boost II
356.5 ----- 401.5 ----- 418.9 ----- warforged 14 crit rage II barb / 6 kensai fighter (with mineral II heavy picks)
370.0 ----- 416.8 ----- 434.8 ----- warforged 14 crit rage II barb / 6 kensai fighter (with mineral II heavy picks + scourge choker)
391.0 ----- 416.8 ----- 459.4 ----- warforged 14 crit rage II barb / 6 assassin (with mineral II heavy picks)

Also, here are the numbers vs. 50% fortification (didnt include acid resistance though). I am including it mostly to show the diminished effect of both the improved crit range, and the loss of backstabbing damage).

hasted - w/ haste boost I - w/ haste boost II
285.8 ----- 321.9 ----- 335.8 ----- warforged 14 crit rage II barb / 6 kensai fighter (with mineral II heavy picks)
296.7 ----- 334.2 ----- 348.7 ----- warforged 14 crit rage II barb / 6 kensai fighter (with mineral II heavy picks + scourge choker)
296.8 ----- 334.2 ----- 348.8 ----- warforged 14 crit rage II barb / 6 assassin (with mineral II heavy picks)

detailed calculations below:

warforged 14 crit rage II barb / 6 kensai fighter (with mineral II heavy picks)
4 / 4 weapon crit multiplier/ effective range
1 d 8 Weapon dice
8 extra crit damage
0% mobs fortification

main / off
5 / 5 weapon +
7 / 7 inspire courage
1 / 1 prayer
8 / 8 power attack
1 / 1 kensai I
0 / 0 fighter enh
2 / 2 weapon specialization
0 0 greater weapon specialization
0 / 0 racial enhancements
-- -- 18 base str
-- -- 5 lvl up
-- -- 2 enhancements
-- -- 6 item
-- -- 4 tome
-- -- 6 greater rage
-- -- 4 power rage IV
-- -- 2 rage spell
-- -- 2 madstone I
-- -- 2 madstone II
-- -- 51 total strength
21 / 10.0 strength modifier
45 / 34 total damage modifier

4.5 / 4.5 weapon avg base damage
49.5 / 38.5 avg regular damage
230.0 / 186.0 avg crit damage
37.1 / 28.9 weighted reg damage
46.0 / 37.2 weighted crit damage

0.0 / 0.0 backstabbing
0.0 / 0.0 rogue sneak attack
7.6 / 7.6 tharnes (8 * 19/20)
0.0 / 0.0 halfling guile
90.7 / 73.7 base + sneak attack

6.7 / 6.7 2d6 holy tier I
3.3 / 3.3 1d6 acid tier II
3.3 / 3.3 acid on crit tier II
3.3 / 3.3 acid on crit tier III
0.7 / 0.7 4d6 acid on 20 tier III(14*1/20)
2.4 / 2.4 1d4 slicing duel shard (2.5*19/20)
19.7 / 19.7 total weapon effects

110.4 / 93.3 base + sneak attack + weapon effects

5.0 / 5.0 # of attacks per attack sequence
551.9 / 466.6 total avg damage per hand for 1 complete attack sequence
1018.5 total damage in 1 complete attack sequence
356.5 hasted DPS

max / effective**
401.5 / 373.1 +haste boost I
418.9 / 384.1 +haste boost II
na / na +haste boost III
na / na +haste booste IV

2.852 duration of 1 complete attack sequence with haste
2.537 duration of 1 complete attack sequence with haste +haste boost I
2.432 duration of 1 complete attack sequence with haste + haste boost II
*dps assumptions include optimistic gear/tome configurations, as presumeably everyone will get there if they play long enough
**for " effective" damage on haste boosts, I considered the effect of using 5 haste boosts over 150 seconds, with an activation delay of 1 second

warforged 14 crit rage II barb / 6 kensai fighter (with mineral II heavy picks + scourge choker)
4 / 4 weapon crit multiplier/ effective range
1 d 8 Weapon dice
8 extra crit damage
0% mobs fortification

main / off
5 / 5 weapon +
7 / 7 inspire courage
1 / 1 prayer
8 / 8 power attack
1 / 1 kensai I
0 / 0 fighter enh
2 / 2 weapon specialization
0 0 greater weapon specialization
0 / 0 racial enhancements
-- -- 18 base str
-- -- 5 lvl up
-- -- 2 enhancements
-- -- 6 item
-- -- 4 tome
-- -- 6 greater rage
-- -- 4 power rage IV
-- -- 2 rage spell
-- -- 2 madstone I
-- -- 2 madstone II
-- -- 6 scourge choker (stacking portion)
-- -- 57 total strength
24 / 12.0 strength modifier
48 / 36 total damage modifier

4.5 / 4.5 weapon avg base damage
52.5 / 40.5 avg regular damage
242.0 / 194.0 avg crit damage
39.4 / 30.4 weighted reg damage
48.4 / 38.8 weighted crit damage

0.0 / 0.0 backstabbing
0.0 / 0.0 rogue sneak attack
7.6 / 7.6 tharnes (8 * 19/20)
0.0 / 0.0 halfling guile
95.4 / 76.8 base + sneak attack

6.7 / 6.7 2d6 holy tier I
3.3 / 3.3 1d6 acid tier II
3.3 / 3.3 acid on crit tier II
3.3 / 3.3 acid on crit tier III
0.7 / 0.7 4d6 acid on 20 tier III(14*1/20)
2.4 / 2.4 1d4 slicing duel shard (2.5*19/20)
19.7 / 19.7 total weapon effects

115.0 / 96.4 base + sneak attack + weapon effects

5.0 / 5.0 # of attacks per attack sequence
575.1 / 482.1 total avg damage per hand for 1 complete attack sequence
1057.3 total damage in 1 complete attack sequence
370.0 hasted DPS

max / effective**
416.8 / 387.3 +haste boost I
434.8 / 398.7 +haste boost II
na / na +haste boost III
na / na +haste booste IV
2.852 / duration of 1 complete attack sequence with haste
2.537 / duration of 1 complete attack sequence with haste +haste boost I
2.432 / duration of 1 complete attack sequence with haste + haste boost II
*dps assumptions include optimistic gear/tome configurations, as presumeably everyone will get there if they play long enough
**for " effective" damage on haste boosts, I considered the effect of using 5 haste boosts over 150 seconds, with an activation delay of 1 second

warforged 14 crit rage II barb / 6 assassin (with mineral II heavy picks)
4 / 4 weapon crit multiplier/ effective range
1 d 8 Weapon dice
8 extra crit damage
0% mobs fortification

main / off
5 / 5 weapon +
7 / 7 inspire courage
1 / 1 prayer
8 / 8 power attack
0 / 0 kensai I
0 / 0 fighter enh
0 / 0 weapon specialization
0 0 greater weapon specialization
0 / 0 racial enhancements
-- -- 18 base str
-- -- 5 lvl up
-- -- 0 enhancements
-- -- 6 item
-- -- 4 tome
-- -- 6 greater rage
-- -- 4 power rage IV
-- -- 2 rage spell
-- -- 2 madstone I
-- -- 2 madstone II
-- -- 49 total strength
20 / 10.0 strength modifier
41 / 31 total damage modifier

4.5 / 4.5 weapon avg base damage
45.0 / 35.5 avg regular damage
212.0 / 174.0 avg crit damage
33.8 / 26.6 weighted reg damage
42.4 / 34.8 weighted crit damage

10.0 / 10.0 backstabbing (3d6 * 19/20)
5.7 / 5.7 rogue sneak attack training II (6 * 19/20)
7.6 / 7.6 tharnes (8 * 19/20)
0.0 / 0.0 halfling guile
99.4 / 84.7 base + sneak attack

6.7 / 6.7 2d6 holy tier I
3.3 / 3.3 1d6 acid tier II
3.3 / 3.3 acid on crit tier II
3.3 / 3.3 acid on crit tier III
0.7 / 0.7 4d6 acid on 20 tier III(14*1/20)
2.4 / 2.4 1d4 slicing duel shard (2.5*19/20)
19.7 / 19.7 total weapon effects

119.1 / 104.4 base + sneak attack + weapon effects

5.0 / 5.0 # of attacks per attack sequence
595.4 / 521.8 total avg damage per hand for 1 complete attack sequence
1117.1 total damage in 1 complete attack sequence
391.0 hasted DPS

max / effective**
440.4 / 409.3 +haste boost I
459.4 / 421.3 +haste boost II
na / na +haste boost III
na / na +haste booste IV

2.852 duration of 1 complete attack sequence with haste
2.537 duration of 1 complete attack sequence with haste +haste boost I
2.432 duration of 1 complete attack sequence with haste + haste boost II
*dps assumptions include optimistic gear/tome configurations, as presumeably everyone will get there if they play long enough
**for " effective" damage on haste boosts, I considered the effect of using 5 haste boosts over 150 seconds, with an activation delay of 1 second

[gfunk]

Here is my first attempt at THF damage calculations. I have several questions below if anyone can address them. The tables are fairly involved but I would appreciate any effort to check through them.


** made some corrections with new info
so the DPS comparison for broken attack chains would be 438.3 from the barbarian vs 369.7 and 409.2 for the kensai in the non-boosted and boosted scenarios. Glancing blow effects proc rates are the main unknown for various builds)
(se preceding post for what I mean by effective dps).

also, here is another chart that shows it with vicious effects occuring on all glancing blows, but with only 50% proc rate on other effects:


(



I would appreciate any feedback / corrections.

a few specific questions:
1) does sneak attack work on glancing blows?
2) is 100% effects on glancing blows reasonable for WF kensai and barbarians?
3) do crit effects proc on glancing blows or is it only the non-crit effects that work?
4) for unbroken attack chains I am using 3 glancing blows / 5 two handed attacks. The ddo wiki has 2 / 5, however experimenting has shown glancing blows occur on the first attack. Can anyone else clairify this or explain the discrepancy with wiki?

also, just fyi this is the information i used for calculating glancing blow damage (stolen from another thread):

* BAB +0 to +10, Glancing Blow Dmg = Physical Damage / 5 (=20% of physical damage)
* BAB+11 to +15, Glancing Blow Dmg = Physical Damage / 4 (=25% of physical damage)
* BAB+16 to ..., Glancing Blow Dmg = Physical Damage / 3.33 (=30% of physical damage
* THF feat adds +10 to the secondary Physical Damage roll, before division by the appropriate divisor.
* ImpTHF adds another +20 (total +30) to the secondary Physical Damage roll, before division.

Also, I'll make a table showing the # of attacks I used for the broken attack sequence. It works out to 138 / minute in the normal hasted scenario and increases for kensai and kensai with haste boosts.

[BlackSteel]

a few specific questions:
1) does sneak attack work on glancing blows?
2) is 100% effects on glancing blows reasonable for WF kensai and barbarians?
3) do crit effects proc on glancing blows or is it only the non-crit effects that work?
4) for unbroken attack chains I am using 3 glancing blows / 5 two handed attacks. The ddo wiki has 2 / 5, however experimenting has shown glancing blows occur on the first attack. Can anyone else clairify this or explain the discrepancy with wiki?

also, just fyi this is the information i used for calculating glancing blow damage (stolen from another thread):

* BAB +0 to +10, Glancing Blow Dmg = Physical Damage / 5 (=20% of physical damage)
* BAB+11 to +15, Glancing Blow Dmg = Physical Damage / 4 (=25% of physical damage)
* BAB+16 to ..., Glancing Blow Dmg = Physical Damage / 3.33 (=30% of physical damage
* THF feat adds +10 to the secondary Physical Damage roll, before division by the appropriate divisor.
* ImpTHF adds another +20 (total +30) to the secondary Physical Damage roll, before division.

1) no
2) no, the only effects that are 100% is the frenzy damage, everything else is <50 (I've yet to test out the capstone, theres a few threads floating around with different numbers, but 1/3 sounds about right ATM w/o barb capstone for weapon elemental dice)
3) dont recall, but the contribution here is pretty insignificant, hopefully someone else can answer
4) 3/5 is correct

FYI GTHF adds further damage to glancing blows, I would assume another +10 before division