Make Velah Relevant

[Comfortably]

IT'S ALL ABOUT DA BOOOOOTS!!!

Well, seeing as how the Abbot is being "changed" in this new mod we are getting I would advise you
to get some boots on any toon that is not WF.

[wemery73]

sounds good

I know this suggestion has been made many times but here it is again:

1) Get rid of the repetitive flagging. Make it like the Titan. Pre-raid then raid.
2) Red dragon drops red dragon scales. Get 25, get armor. This only makes sense since every other dragon drops them. Fire resistance 30, superior combustion whatever . . .
3) Make the loot worth something. I've forgotten what most of the loot does its so totally irrelevant. Necklance of the silver concord? Kundarak warding bracers? You're joking right? Just pull it from the tables please.

Respectfully submitted,
Lysol

[Pyromaniac]

Just make the boots drop rate better given its the only end game good item in there. The flagging is easy but annoying because most of the server won't run a raid you have to reflag for.

[sephiroth1084]

I'd be in favor of having the old raids altered to mimic Devil Assault, where the base level of the raid remains the same on normal, but hard and elite get scaled up by 3 or 4 levels each (making VoN a lvl 13 or 14 on hard, and a level 16 or 18 on elite). In addition, add some new items that drop only on hard, and some that drop only on elite. These new items should replace some of the earlier items on the loot tables, so that people aren't pulling those Flamestrike bracers in elite.

Do the same for the Titan and DQ.

[redoubt]

As the game is now we have several raids you can do starting at level 10 (yes people run them lower, but that is the quest level.) You can do these as you level your character without waiting until the level cap to do any raids. Even as a player with all capped characters I think this is a good thing.

We have already seen Turbine change a quest because it became too easy as the level cap went up.

I request that the current raids be left at their current level. The items from those raids are good when you are that level. Run them a couple times and move on. Sure, those raids may not be worth grinding to get an item, but there are other raids you can do that in.

Oh, and Velah is relevant. She is the first dragon you get to fight. Still. Please don't pump it up just because the level cap has increased.

Thanks.

[sephiroth1084]

As the game is now we have several raids you can do starting at level 10 (yes people run them lower, but that is the quest level.) You can do these as you level your character without waiting until the level cap to do any raids. Even as a player with all capped characters I think this is a good thing.

We have already seen Turbine change a quest because it became too easy as the level cap went up.

I request that the current raids be left at their current level. The items from those raids are good when you are that level. Run them a couple times and move on. Sure, those raids may not be worth grinding to get an item, but there are other raids you can do that in.

Oh, and Velah is relevant. She is the first dragon you get to fight. Still. Please don't pump it up just because the level cap has increased.

Thanks.

The items may be useful at level 10, but how many times does someone run VoN while still in the 8-12 range? And how useful are they once their out of the range? Even barring the desire for the items, I don't know anyone who runs this raid more than twice before they are outside the level range. It's just too difficult to get a group together, and the rewards are just too slight.

What do you think about the suggestion I made above? It would keep VoN and the Titan and DQ accessible to the players in the level range that it was originally intended for, but will give the raids some longevity with characters who have passed that range.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Get rid of the reflagging, get rid of the timer...That's all the quest needs.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

The loot isn't totally irrelevant:

If the swing speed of all the weapons was the same i.e. greatsword same as greataxe - then the Sword of Shadow would actually be a very nice weapon, esp with the kensai/FB and twf enhancements coming up.

Oh and I find putting things in bold makes them true.

Garth

[Dymond]

then perhaps they should remove the lockout timer, making it more similar to TS (which is still run often and enjoyed by many non-capped toons).

Right now, we have a quest that is largely avoided because of exactly what you mention. It's a shame.

Largely avoided? not sure what server your on..

[Grinndal]

Boooooooring. Much better to just change the quest.

And to A_D: Who says that making it relevant means that it has to have raid loot that is sought after at level cap? Most of the stuff is useless in there even at level 10.

Having said that, I would love to see a "re-imagining" of the Von series as a whole. Maybe have it be a pervasive story line that follows a character all the way from level 7-ish to level 20. Having a red dragon as a main villain is VERY D&D. Would not really take all that much effort either as you could do things like change the text of npc's and certain quest objectives to mention the storyline. Could have two raids in the chain, the current one, made a little more difficult and with added loot quality, and a level 20 knock down drag out between your party and the once fallen dragon you have been hunting ever since you were level 10:-)

An actual fight too, not one where she sits there and gets pwned like a gimp

I like this idea. I mean how does the stormreaver line start with TS, then reaver, now the whole refuge. But the big red gets nothing? If you have to change her death to flying off right before death. Then she grows as we have grown...

[Uska]

Get rid of the reflagging, get rid of the timer...That's all the quest needs.

Dump the flagging but not so sure about the timer

[Uska]

The loot isn't totally irrelevant:

If the swing speed of all the weapons was the same i.e. greatsword same as greataxe - then the Sword of Shadow would actually be a very nice weapon, esp with the kensai/FB and twf enhancements coming up.

Oh and I find putting things in bold makes them true.

Garth

You mean THF not twf dont ya

[Lorichie]

Get rid of the reflagging, get rid of the timer...That's all the quest needs.

Ease the flagging....allow von's 1-4 be completed in any order, put items at the end, like DQ at the very least, so if you are helping someone out and youre not on quest chain, you at least get an item.

Leave timer as is, if we go down the path of no timer, suddenly the forums be ablaze of retrofitting all raids with no timer.

Red Dragon Scales in end chest, 33 percent fire reduction, imp/greater fire resist, 1 charge ghero. This alone will make it a new raid, and will be run a lot. i would want armor for all my clerics at the very least.

imo,

R

[bobbryan2]

Ease the flagging....allow von's 1-4 be completed in any order, put items at the end, like DQ at the very least, so if you are helping someone out and youre not on quest chain, you at least get an item.

Leave timer as is, if we go down the path of no timer, suddenly the forums be ablaze of retrofitting all raids with no timer.

Red Dragon Scales in end chest, 33 percent fire reduction, imp/greater fire resist, 1 charge ghero. This alone will make it a new raid, and will be run a lot. i would want armor for all my clerics at the very least.

imo,

R

Yuck... your flagging mechanism still sucks and is harder to code!!

As far as the timer goes... you'll really only run Dragon 1-3 times while leveling up... and then the loot is irrelevant all over again. At least nixing the timer on it would allow you to run von 5 a few times for quick leveling and some items that'll be nice for a while. I don't think the KDS, boots, and SoS are really nice enough to warrant the whole 3 day timer anymore.

Either that... or upgrade all the loot, raid the level... and give high level people another raid.

Mid level raids are a neat idea... but aren't great in practice. It gets terribly frustrating putting mid level dragon runs together. I'd say we run 1 in the guild per every 2 characters I level up. What's the point really?

[Uska]

Yuck... your flagging mechanism still sucks and is harder to code!!

As far as the timer goes... you'll really only run Dragon 1-3 times while leveling up... and then the loot is irrelevant all over again. At least nixing the timer on it would allow you to run von 5 a few times for quick leveling and some items that'll be nice for a while. I don't think the KDS, boots, and SoS are really nice enough to warrant the whole 3 day timer anymore.

Either that... or upgrade all the loot, raid the level... and give high level people another raid.

Mid level raids are a neat idea... but aren't great in practice. It gets terribly frustrating putting mid level dragon runs together. I'd say we run 1 in the guild per every 2 characters I level up. What's the point really?

Not everyone plays like you some like mid level raids I dont really enjoy the shroud or SoS not a fan of the grind for crafting but I enjoy von 5 for the right level characters. Make it so it doesnt have to be flagged by 1-4 more then once and its fine timer and level

[El_Frigo]

What can I say. DDO develops and the highest level of the characters increases. IMHO I'm just glad I can run a fun RAID on lvl8-10! Not everybody powerlevels ands caps in a week and unlocks end-game RAID possiblities.
Those RAID's are still good at their level, difficult enough if you do it on the appropriate level and a nice way to learn how to RAID when you grow up.

I do understand that for a level16-20 TS and VoN's are less fun, but hey... you ARE overleveling those quest and they were never meant to be for twelve lvl16's

[bobbryan2]

Not everyone plays like you some like mid level raids I dont really enjoy the shroud or SoS not a fan of the grind for crafting but I enjoy von 5 for the right level characters. Make it so it doesnt have to be flagged by 1-4 more then once and its fine timer and level

There's no need to turn this to a 'playstyle' debate. The fact of the matter is that the overwhelming percentage of players in this game LEVEL UP.

If there was a large portion of the populace that permanently parked their characters at 10-12, and were completely content to do nothing but run the dragon all day and night... that would be something. But that isn't reality.

I enjoy Von 5. I even enjoy Von 5 on the right level of characters. I enjoy the Shroud because it's a great quest, but I think SoS is a little lame. But I'm still lucky to get 1-2 dragon completions for my characters. The loot is obsolete, the xp, while good, isn't good enough to warrant a 3 day timer... and the stat requirements make running it with short groups or odd class collections much less likely to happen.

Short of the actual quest... I think the dragon is a perfect example of how to do everything wrong.

[bobbryan2]

What can I say. DDO develops and the highest level of the characters increases. IMHO I'm just glad I can run a fun RAID on lvl8-10! Not everybody powerlevels ands caps in a week and unlocks end-game RAID possiblities.
Those RAID's are still good at their level, difficult enough if you do it on the appropriate level and a nice way to learn how to RAID when you grow up.

I do understand that for a level16-20 TS and VoN's are less fun, but hey... you ARE overleveling those quest and they were never meant to be for twelve lvl16's

It doesn't matter that people don't level up in a week. If you play less, you'll necessarilly raid less. Seriously.. how many dragon completions do you have on your non-capped guy? 1? 2? 0?

It's an honest question.

Is there anyone that has more than 5 completions and isn't permanently parking their character at a lower level?

Hell.... does anyone even have 5?

[Lorichie]

Hell.... does anyone even have 5?

While i dont believe my flagging mechanism sucks, nor would it be any harder to code than what is already existing in game now, i will however agree with this.

my last three characters i have leveled, ive done the vons once, and not done 5+6 at all, and have no plans to.

R

[sephiroth1084]

Because no one addressed my first point, I'll ask again:

What about altering the level of VoN 5&6, DQ, Titan, so that on hard and elite they are higher level quests with slightly different loot lists? (think Devil Assault)

That way, the players who enjoy running raids at level 10 still have that option, while keeping the quest somewhat fresh and relevant for those at or near the cap. Insert some appropriate loot for the 2 higher difficulties, and suddenly we'll see people running these again at higher levels for more than just favor.