On fixing human Melee...

[Monkey_Archer]

If Humans are the strongest race (Human adaptability) why do they make the worst melee characters?

Dwarves have axe enhancements and +2 Con
WF have powerattack and +2 Con
Elves get LS/Rapier enhancements
Halflings get sneakattack damage and +1 ac

A being able to get +1 str only gives an extra 0-1 damage.

Dont get me wrong, i play multiple humans, i like the race, and they make great sorcs, wizards and clerics.

More useful feats would definatly help humans out a bit, but i would rather see work done on human enhancements.

A couple ideas:
-Allow human vesitility to count for other PrE requirements (for example:damage boost for assassin or attack boost requirement for Kensai)
-Human Power attack (requires HA:strength). If a human is stronger the a WF why not have this?
-Bastard Sword/Greatsword attack/damage enhancement line. Hey, even with this people would still use Khopesh and Greataxes

[WeaselKing]

If Humans are the strongest race

See here is where you are wrong. All fleshlings must die to make room for the Kingdom of the Lord of the Blades. Soon all of Eberron will be converted to hallowed ground like the Mournlands and all you puny Fleshbags will die.

DIE, FLESHLINGS, DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Junts]

If Humans are the strongest race (Human adaptability) why do they make the worst melee characters?

Dwarves have axe enhancements and +2 Con
WF have powerattack and +2 Con
Elves get LS/Rapier enhancements
Halflings get sneakattack damage and +1 ac

A being able to get +1 str only gives an extra 0-1 damage.

Dont get me wrong, i play multiple humans, i like the race, and they make great sorcs, wizards and clerics.

More useful feats would definatly help humans out a bit, but i would rather see work done on human enhancements.

A couple ideas:
-Allow human vesitility to count for other PrE requirements (for example:damage boost for assassin or attack boost requirement for Kensai)
-Human Power attack (requires HA:strength). If a human is stronger the a WF why not have this?
-Bastard Sword/Greatsword attack/damage enhancement line. Hey, even with this people would still use Khopesh and Greataxes

Fitting with the human theme a little better would be a 1-tier enhancement line for any specific (non-da) exotic weapon (only 1 to hit or 1 to damage); humans are adaptable and flexible, and probably designed most of these exotic weapons (khopeshes, repeaters, etc).

Instead of working for all types like dwarf/elf ones, though, it should require specific selection (human kama damage I, etc)

Just +1 to hit and/or dam with (monk weapons / khopshes, even bs) would make humans compelling for melee purposes, since those are such commonly utilized weaponry, yet it would not be as strong as the strong racial enhancement lines relative to the weapon

[maddmatt70]

If Humans are the strongest race (Human adaptability) why do they make the worst melee characters?

Dwarves have axe enhancements and +2 Con
WF have powerattack and +2 Con
Elves get LS/Rapier enhancements
Halflings get sneakattack damage and +1 ac

A being able to get +1 str only gives an extra 0-1 damage.

Dont get me wrong, i play multiple humans, i like the race, and they make great sorcs, wizards and clerics.

More useful feats would definatly help humans out a bit, but i would rather see work done on human enhancements.

A couple ideas:
-Allow human vesitility to count for other PrE requirements (for example:damage boost for assassin or attack boost requirement for Kensai)
-Human Power attack (requires HA:strength). If a human is stronger the a WF why not have this?
-Bastard Sword/Greatsword attack/damage enhancement line. Hey, even with this people would still use Khopesh and Greataxes

/not signed. It looks more like you failed to examine the whole picture for what humans offer as melee.

- Humans make great battle bards because they give bards an extra feat which is key for a feat starved class - they also make sound barbarians and the like for the same reason.
-They have the highest intimidate score and highest possible haggle.
-They also have the human healing enhancements so can get up to 200+% healing which is great for a mana sponge or defensive character.
-Human versatility damage boost can also be useful if used properly.
-They get a nice situational umd boost over other races.
-They can get the highest possible strength score because of human adaptability.
-They get an extra skill point which can come in handy.

[Inspire]

A couple ideas:
-Allow human vesitility to count for other PrE requirements (for example:damage boost for assassin or attack boost requirement for Kensai)
-Human Power attack (requires HA:strength). If a human is stronger the a WF why not have this?
-Bastard Sword/Greatsword attack/damage enhancement line. Hey, even with this people would still use Khopesh and Greataxes

I believe Eladrin said somewhere that he has his own(perhaps nefarious) ideas for Human Versitility in the future.

[kingfisher]

See here is where you are wrong. All fleshlings must die to make room for the Kingdom of the Lord of the Blades. Soon all of Eberron will be converted to hallowed ground like the Mournlands and all you puny Fleshbags will die.

DIE, FLESHLINGS, DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

nothing like a ****ed off enuch

[Robi3.0]

Nowhere does it say human are or should be the strongest race. They are the most versatile. That is why they get a bonus feat at level 1 extra skill points per level and the ability to raise two stats by one. Humans are fine as is.

[Monkey_Archer]

See here is where you are wrong. All fleshlings must die to make room for the Kingdom of the Lord of the Blades. Soon all of Eberron will be converted to hallowed ground like the Mournlands and all you puny Fleshbags will die.

DIE, FLESHLINGS, DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Thats it... im realeasing the rust monsters

[DelScorcho]

Humans were worthless for the longest time as melee, and I deleted mine. However, the change to toughness has helped considerably. Also, DT armor and monk splashes have reduced the value of the dwarven armor mastery enhancment. They may now be a preferred race for certain types of feat starved characters. The last two melee I've capped were both human - a 14P/2R and a 8F/6Rr/2R.

[Junts]

Nowhere does it say human are or should be the strongest race. They are the most versatile. That is why they get a bonus feat at level 1 extra skill points per level and the ability to raise two stats by one. Humans are fine as is.

What he means is that humans have str enhancements and no other race does, thereby meaning humans can be the strongest race on ddo (by one point) over any other melee of any other race.


Also means humans are the wisest and most charismatic and most intelligent, which is why humans are great cle/brd/wiz/sor

[Deadz]

Im'' a huge fan of fried chicken.. yumm...

[Monkey_Archer]

Nowhere does it say human are or should be the strongest race. They are the most versatile. That is why they get a bonus feat at level 1 extra skill points per level and the ability to raise two stats by one. Humans are fine as is.

By strongest i mean Human adaptability allows a higher strength score then other races, not "humans are the best race".

[Angelus_dead]

If Humans are the strongest race (Human adaptability) why do they make the worst melee characters?

My suggestion is to create a new set of icons for Human Versatility, which can be used as an alternative to the existing ones when you wish.

Those icons give the same kinds of bonuses as the usual uses of Human Versatility, but have a lesser bonus in exchange for much longer duration.

PS. As a side note, you left out Human Improved Recovery as a melee consideration. In some situations it's highly helpful (although it's not enough to compensate for the DPS bonuses other races can have)

[WeaselKing]

nothing like a ****ed off enuch

Silly Fleshling can't spell eunuch, you will be sent to the labor camps instead of the secretarial pool.

[kingfisher]

Silly Fleshling can't spell eunuch, you will be sent to the labor camps instead of the secretarial pool.

at least i will get some while i am there

[Monkey_Archer]

/not signed. It looks more like you failed to examine the whole picture for what humans offer as melee.

- Humans make great battle bards because they give bards an extra feat which is key for a feat starved class - they also make sound barbarians and the like for the same reason.
-They have the highest intimidate score and highest possible haggle.
-They also have the human healing enhancements so can get up to 200+% healing which is great for a mana sponge or defensive character.
-Human versatility damage boost can also be useful if used properly.
-They get a nice situational umd boost over other races.
-They can get the highest possible strength score because of human adaptability.
-They get an extra skill point which can come in handy.

Yes they do make good bards, haggle bots, and skill based characters.
1 extra feat might make them an option for pure barbs or pure rangers, but a properly designed WF,Elf or Dwarf will still do better. Keep in mind level 18 will grant an extra feat.

In terms of Dps and/or AC they are in last place.

[WeaselKing]

at least i will get some while i am there

The only pleasure a warforged needs is the feeling of a fleshling being squeezed until they go splat.

[kingfisher]

The only pleasure a warforged needs is the feeling of a fleshling being squeezed until they go splat.

no wonder yall are always grumpy

[Monkey_Archer]

Thats it... im realeasing the rust monsters

Go my pretties... feast and make merry!

[Angelus_dead]

Keep in mind level 18 will grant an extra feat.

Well, that's the failing of the human race imported from D&D 3.5 edition:

The racial bonus is an extra feat, which becomes less and less helpful the higher level you go. At level 1 it's awesome, because you're all "OMG double feats", but at high levels when it's 8 feats versus 7, it's more like "Meh I may as well get Imp Pierce".

One thing that would improve the human race would be if DDO added more valuable feats, so that non-humans would always feel they're missing out on something they'd like to have.