Bow Strength For Non-Rangers

[Mhykke]

there is nothing in the game that needs as much help as ranged combat.

Well yeah, if your thing is to help ranged combat out, and nothing else, then doing anything is better than nothing.

But the point is why do it through a capstone that only one class has access to? If you're going to fix ranged combat, fix it. Don't slap a bandaid on it and say "well it's kind of ok if you take 20 levels in this one class". There are a ton of problems doing it this way.

[Deathseeker]

Well yeah, if your thing is to help ranged combat out, and nothing else, then doing anything is better than nothing.

But the point is why do it through a capstone that only one class has access to? If you're going to fix ranged combat, fix it. Don't slap a bandaid on it and say "well it's kind of ok if you take 20 levels in this one class".

The fighter capstone now shows us the dilemma they've created for themselves. If they give everyone a competence boost, they'll nullify the fighter capstone. If they make it of any other type, they'll still have the same problem of the ranger being too far above everyone.

Looks like you can be a pure ranger in mod 9, or a pure fighter or ranger in mod 10. Im having trouble thinking of anything they can really do now that they've cornered themselves in with the fighter capstone.

Maybe something range oriented for monks I guess...dunno, not a lot of options for them to have ranged be relevant on any other builds that I can see...

[poonce]

Looks cool, Ranging needs an overhaul in this game and this isnt it . . IMO DDO needs to take a good look at the Amazon from Diablo II, that was balance and noone can say it wasnt awesome.

I Agree.

[Dracolich]

Why add a cap to it? Archer hurts enough as it is without also restricting one of its few sources of increased damage.

Making it available to everyone would be nice, but I don't think we'll see that happen. And just adding it to composite bows would mean recoding all the bows marked as such. And that still would leave problems in its wake, because none of the good bows in the game are composite.

Thats why I said increase the ROF=Rate of Fire. I tihnk having a bow that takes advantage of a str that would be unlimited would be like trying to draw a bow with a string made from piano wire. I think thats why PnP has a hard cap on the str bonus.

[Yaga_Nub]

The fighter capstone now shows us the dilemma they've created for themselves. If they give everyone a competence boost, they'll nullify the fighter capstone. If they make it of any other type, they'll still have the same problem of the ranger being too far above everyone.

Looks like you can be a pure ranger in mod 9, or a pure fighter or ranger in mod 10. Im having trouble thinking of anything they can really do now that they've cornered themselves in with the fighter capstone.

Maybe something range oriented for monks I guess...dunno, not a lot of options for them to have ranged be relevant on any other builds that I can see...

So if everyone gets a competence boost how does that nullify the fighter capstone?

You mean if they gave it early like with ranger tempest?

[Borror0]

So if everyone gets a competence boost how does that nullify the fighter capstone?

Currently, fighters get +10% melee alacrity over everyone else.

If they add an item giving Competence bonus to everyone, fighters gain less (or nothing if the bonus is 10% or higher) over others.

[Gunga]

Well yeah, if your thing is to help ranged combat out, and nothing else, then doing anything is better than nothing.

But the point is why do it through a capstone that only one class has access to? If you're going to fix ranged combat, fix it. Don't slap a bandaid on it and say "well it's kind of ok if you take 20 levels in this one class". There are a ton of problems doing it this way.

Garbage, and you know it. I expect better.

D+

[AussieEngineer]

Bow Strength
Prereqs: Base Attack Bonus +6, Weapon Focus: Ranged, Point Blank Shot, and any one of: Power Attack, Combat Expertise, or Zen Archery
Benefit: You apply your Strength bonus to bow damage.
Special: Rangers receive this feat at first level. A fighter may select Bow Strength as one of his fighter bonus feats.


I totally agree, it is way too costly... while dnd does have some feats with 3 to 4 prereqs they follow a suit of progression of related pre's. 1.) power Attack does not work with bows, nor does CE have anything to do with them ... thus is unsupported in this chain - who would take any of those considering most classes will have but 7 feats at level 20 it is too costly for the already feat heavy archery paths.

At first read I thought it was kind of a bad idea to even make this a feat, when it should be a property of a Composite bow.
Then it occurred to me!! Maybe this is the way for them to make it apply to composite bows! Once it is a feat, they would be able to add the feat to all composite bows (like you can get items that grant feats at the moment).

That I believe is the correct method of approaching this, and the byproduct is a really good effect where someone could choose to take the feat to enhance standard bows as well!

I truly hope that is the motive behind the feat as it stands, because I tend to agree with above posters, that it is overly expensive for something that should be available depending on the weapon.

[Deathseeker]

Do we still think the pre-reqs are too heavy if they make power attack apply to bows? Then it doesnt look so heavy to me after all....

[Aesop]

Do we still think the pre-reqs are too heavy if they make power attack apply to bows? Then it doesnt look so heavy to me after all....

Requiring three Feat to get what a ranger gets at level 1... yeah its too heavy and other than fighters other classes trying to build an Archery Build couldn't get this and the rest of the line.

Ranged Combat is already the most expensive Feat wise, no reason to up it by more than is necessary

Aesop

[alchilito]

Garbage, and you know it. I expect better.

D+

****** ********** ****** * *********** *****

******** ****** ****

Is that better ?

F+

[Raithe]

"Fixing" range combat for those who want to endlessly plink at things regardless of position is going to do exactly 3 things in my estimation:

1) It will annoy melee-oriented players even more than ranged attack does now
2) It will invite the devs to counter with lots of undefendable ranged attacks, like searing light
3) It will overpower any character whose player uses the proper tactics at the proper time

While I think Bow Strength being a normal feat is perfectly fine, I think the beta players who told the devs to reduce missile rates of attack would be frowning on the mistaken concepts advocated in this thread.

Every character should be ranged to at least the degree they can activate ceiling levers. No one should be allowed to nerf the mobs by carrying the equivalent of a machine gun bow.

[QuantumFX]

IMHO if they absolutely demand a prereq feat make it “Any ranged combat feat” (Weapon Focus: Ranged, Point Blank Shot, Zen Archery, Shot on the Run, Improved Crit: Ranged) and be done with it.

[Dracolich]

Increasing ranged peoples power is only bad if you have a game with terrible AI (terrible as in standing there and letting you plink away on them)...Oh wait we have that sorry move along.

[Mhykke]

Garbage, and you know it. I expect better.

D+

Well if mine was a D+, what does your nonresponse get?

[Borror0]

Increasing ranged peoples power is only bad if you have a game with terrible AI

It's also terrible if you don't have a good aggro system, and ours is horrible.

We should never try to fix ranged until then, only try to make it less suck. Otherwise, we're in for a bad surprise.

[Gunga]

Well if mine was a D+, what does your nonresponse get?

The trademark bandit already graded me.

[sephiroth1084]

I'd say the Prerequisites should be

+4 BAB, 13+ Strength, Point Blank Shot

Why have the BAB requirement even that high?

[Aesop]

Why have the BAB requirement even that high?

Why not?

I figure its a compromise

[Yaga_Nub]

Well yeah, if your thing is to help ranged combat out, and nothing else, then doing anything is better than nothing.

But the point is why do it through a capstone that only one class has access to? If you're going to fix ranged combat, fix it. Don't slap a bandaid on it and say "well it's kind of ok if you take 20 levels in this one class". There are a ton of problems doing it this way.

But Mhykke, this ISN'T a fix for ranged combat. Not one dev has come into any thread and said this is a fix for ranged combat. Some of us just automatically assumed this was their answer to fix ranged combat.

This is a capstone for a class that Turbine has decided will be the best at ranged combat in DDO. Can any of you honestly say that you think that all the devs are sitting at their desks saying to themselves - I don't want to fix ranged combat so to throw the players a bone I'll give Rangers a +25% ranged combat speed enhancement and that will satisfy them? REALLY?

What if they came out and announced that all ranged combat will increase by +25% and that the ranger capstone was going to be +15% on top of that. Some people would be okay with that and some would still *****. A lot of the people in this thread don't use ranged combat nor do they run with someone that uses ranged combat even 75% of the time. So they have no vested interest in whatever the change is and are just in the threads to *****.

PS Don't you have some briefs to be reviewing or research to do?