AC on casters

[ariel7]

How are you guys usually bumping up AC on a caster (say on a wf) or are you just ignoring ac?

[Impaqt]

How are you guys usually bumping up AC on a caster (say on a wf) or are you just ignoring ac?

Ignore it. theres no point.

Jump, Stoneskin, Displacement. Thats the best AC in the game.

[Arianrhod]

At low levels you can use Mage Armor and Shield spells to get enough AC to be missed some of the time. At higher levels, like Impaqt said, go with stoneskin, displacement, etc. Getting a meaningful AC past 9th level or so is generally not worth the investment for a caster. They have better things to spend their time (and equipment slots/feats/enhancements) on

[MrCow]

How are you guys usually bumping up AC on a caster (say on a wf) or are you just ignoring ac?

In the lower levels on a Warforged you can obtain and maintain a usable AC, regardless of class. The highest AC enhancement docent you can get along with the best light mithril shield you can get (or the shield spell if you two-handed fight) along with any other AC effects you may want to toss on tends to keep you in a reasonable AC until about level 8. Past this point the ways required to keep building towards a "meaningful AC" tends to be too steep to bother with on an arcane caster for most folks.

[Gadget2775]

If you really want AC on a WF caster...

Pick a body type (probably Mithral to start, Addy if you can pick up specific items)
Use the Inscribed Armor Enhancement to reduce ASF. (Cost 6 AP for all three levels)
"Removes Arcane spell failure from base Warforged Composite Plating and Mithral Body. Reduces arcane spell failure chance of the warforged's Adamantine Body Feat to 20%."

Obtain:
An Arcane Sigil Docent (-10%) (I've found +4 versions, can't seem to locate a +5 though)
Fanged Gloves (-5%) or Seven Fingered Gloves (-10%)
Add Shield Spell or +5 (Twilight a plus) Mithral Large Shield and other standard AC kicker items.

If you manage to put your hands on all of those items you can hit a 0% ASF with an Addy Body and Shield. Whether or not it's worth it to you...Your call.

It's also possible to do something similar with Elf/Drow casters...

[ariel7]

I was asking because elsewhere in the forums someone advocated a caster getting to high 40s or 50 ac, and I wasn't sure that was a popular idea. (not that popularity matters, anyone doing something original has already forgone that idea) but I did wanna hear what the thoughts were out there.

[Ollathir]

I have 2 pure casters, both have AC in the teens, my sorc has his saves all above 20 though, which helps a bit. For the most part they are perma displaced when I run them.

My WF "just for the fun of it" wiz build has got the saves plus the AC, he can hit upper 50's raid buffed, no shield. With the right DT runes and GS item 65 wouldn't be a problem. The only reason why I made him with that much AC, finesse bld, is because he spends most his time in melee. Divine Might clickies are awsome. The biggest difference I notice is that he can take a hit and keep coming, but he still gets hit a lot.

If your role as caster is support, you really shouldn't need AC. If your in the 10's to 40's range regardless, I wouldn't worry about it. When it matters most you'll still get hit. Reflex saves are a different matter.

[ariel7]

Great links in your signature, I love it.

Soon as my new main can be in my sig, he's there but...not sure its coming

[FluffyCalico]

I was asking because elsewhere in the forums someone advocated a caster getting to high 40s or 50 ac, and I wasn't sure that was a popular idea. (not that popularity matters, anyone doing something original has already forgone that idea) but I did wanna hear what the thoughts were out there.

highs 40s are not useful at 16. 50 ac is not much better than 0. I would go displacement jump stoneskin etc instead.
And remember if a boss can hit a 70+ac tank on less than a 20 then he will hit a 50ac on anything but a 1.

[Gadget2775]

highs 40s are not useful at 16. 50 ac is not much better than 0. I would go displacement jump stoneskin etc instead.
And remember if a boss can hit a 70+ac tank on less than a 20 then he will hit a 50ac on anything but a 1.

Not true at all. Really not. Theres a large difference between 40 and 50. And a huge difference between 40 and 10.

[FluffyCalico]

Not true at all. Really not. Theres a large difference between 40 and 50. And a huge difference between 40 and 10.

Sorry but at 16 there is not. When something has +40 to hit the only way it will miss anything from 0-42ac is on a roll of a 1 making them exactly the same thing.

And yes pretty most boss on norm, most trash on elite and even some trash on norm can have + hit in this range.

Another way to look at it is +38 to hit would mean 40 ac is 1 better than 0 ac. And a mob with +38 to hit could not hit a 58 ac except on a 20. I am sorry but my tank has 58+ ac without crazy buffs and while alot of things dont hit it alot there is hardly anything that must roll a perfect 20 to hit him. 40 ac not of use at level 16. If it were things would have to have a 20 to have any hope of hitting a mid ac tank let alone ones up in the 70+ range.

[Gadget2775]

Sorry but at 16 there is not. When something has +40 to hit the only way it will miss anything from 0-42ac is on a roll of a 1 making them exactly the same thing.

I have Fighter types with AC's ranging from 32-54 (unbuffed) and there's a noticeable difference.

My old fashioned Pre-Tempest Dwarf TWF is the 32 and he gets slapped around like a little girl. Fortunately 480 HP is enough to keep him moving. The 46 AC Battle Cleric takes allot fewer hits and thusly survives with 350 or so HP. There's also the Elf Spell Blade, with a standing 50 AC (with a 0% ASF). Up at the top is my Tempest Monk, with a standing 54 (will be 59 once I get the +3 int tome).

The point is I notice a difference when switching between each and every one of them. So yes, high 40's is worth having. Is it enough to keep you from getting hit? Not a chance, will it give you enough that you aren't going to get smacked by every thing that wants a piece of yer squishy bumm? Heck yes.

[Demoyn]

I have Fighter types with AC's ranging from 32-54 (unbuffed) and there's a noticeable difference.

My old fashioned Pre-Tempest Dwarf TWF is the 32 and he gets slapped around like a little girl. Fortunately 480 HP is enough to keep him moving. The 46 AC Battle Cleric takes allot fewer hits and thusly survives with 350 or so HP. There's also the Elf Spell Blade, with a standing 50 AC (with a 0% ASF). Up at the top is my Tempest Monk, with a standing 54 (will be 59 once I get the +3 int tome).

The point is I notice a difference when switching between each and every one of them. So yes, high 40's is worth having. Is it enough to keep you from getting hit? Not a chance, will it give you enough that you aren't going to get smacked by every thing that wants a piece of yer squishy bumm? Heck yes.

Are you soloing? I ask because the first thing that popped out at me is that each of your progressive AC steps are on characters that produce significantly less DPS than the one before (meaning you'll have less aggro). That could also cause this condition that you're seeing.

[Phidius]

I saw a big difference on my caster when he went from 20-30 AC to 55. He still got hit, just not nearly as much.

Starting dex of 16, composite body, DT Docent, a lot of grinding, and a great deal of patience with the nay-sayers.

Stoneskin/Displacement is indeed wonderful, until you get to the higher levels where every mob has a post-graduate degree in dispel.

[ariel7]

post-graduate degree in dispel.

LMAO love it.

Side note:

If you missed a body feat...and have no points in dex, you're hopeless on a wf sorc getting ac to matter even a little?

[Gadget2775]

LMAO love it.

Side note:

If you missed a body feat...and have no points in dex, you're hopeless on a wf sorc getting ac to matter even a little?

You can always swap out for the Body feat with Fred. See below for not even trying AC.

10 Base
08 Addy Body
05 Docent
01 Dex Bonus
06 Shield (Light Mithral)
05 Protection
--------------
35: Presuming you can overcome the 20 ASF from body type

or

10 Base
05 Mithral Body
05 Docent
05 Dex (Requires 14 Base w/ 6 item OR Base +2 Tome w/+6 item)
06 Shield (Light Mithral)
05 Protection
---------------
36 Without worrying about ASF at all

[Mhykke]

And a huge difference between 40 and 10.

There's almost no difference b/w a 40 ac and a 10 AC at cap.

Wasting even 1 equipment slot on a caster to try and get to 40 AC is a mistake.

As a caster (not battle caster), focus on HP, saves, and items that boost your spell DC's/spell points/hit points/saves.

[Gadget2775]

Are you soloing? I ask because the first thing that popped out at me is that each of your progressive AC steps are on characters that produce significantly less DPS than the one before (meaning you'll have less aggro). That could also cause this condition that you're seeing.

I solo all the time with my Monk, not so much the others. Why? Because they get hit more often.

Beyond that they all play with Orthons. Orthons love Cleave attacks (cleave doesn't care who has agro.) Monk and Spell Blade pay much less attention to cleave than the BC and TWF.

[bandyman1]

Orthon's cleaves also hit my melee's 66 AC on far more than just a 20.

Which is about 16 more AC than your spellblade.

You do the math.

[FluffyCalico]

Orthon's cleaves also hit my melee's 66 AC on far more than just a 20.

Which is about 16 more AC than your spellblade.

You do the math.

Agree