Reflections on Recently Rolling and Leveling a Paladin

[Ganak]

Reflections on Recently Rolling and Leveling a Paladin.

by Ganak Goblinjuicer



My paladin is now level 16 for the past two weeks. My build I fleshed out here (final build is on last page): http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=166383


Random thoughts from playing this character to help others deciding on building a paladin.

1. Extend as a feat: I read this was very nice to have.

Assessment: Extend is awesome for a Paladin. Wanting zeal and divine favor as much as possible, extend really helps cut down on the clickie factor. Nice for other buffs also.


2. Concentration as a skill: I invested into max concentration after much debate based on feedback that paladin's cast self buffs often and in the midst of fighting.

Assessment: Ok. With extended zeal lasting 4 min, and DF lasting 2 min, only for the raid bosses or other special situations where it is useful. And I found it useful. Worth it? I maxed intimidate, jump and umd with some in balance. I might have transfered the skill points to max balance and what then? So, concentration is not bad, but nothing really to make much notice of if you dont have it. Keep jump, umd, intim maxed before conc tho.


3. Oh the clickies: I was worried about the things I read about Paladin's being very clickie intensive.

Assessment: Not a deal breaker. The divine might is probably the one that clicking often is annoying. 1 minute is annoyingly short. But you can apply DM without slowing down while in the casting animation. Casting animation takes too long too. Zeal lasts 4 min, and is not bad at all to reapply. DF at 2 is annoying to have to keep applying. Sometimes you have combat on you sooner than you prepared for and go to town without all your required buffs as it can take 5-10 seconds to get geared up, and that is alot of time w liveaction combat. With the smites, its not bad at all.

4. Enhancements: What are good ones?

Assessment: Divine Might, pretty nice boost and a must have (got my build ready for DM3 w +3 chr tome). Exhaulted smite 3 is a must have. Got extra smite 4 as prereq for ES3, and more smites the better, but alot of points into it. Armor boost 4 of course. Divine Sacrifice? Really didn't use it as had too many clickies as is and dumped it. Toughness of course. Got the save bonus 3 too. I got extra LoH2 as well because LoH kicks rear. Got pretty much everything I would want, so no wasted spots.


5. Wisdom as a dump stat? I started with a 8 wisdom.

Assessment: This is the way to go. Need +2 wis tome and need to wear wis item all the time (Made a concordant opposition set of SP goggles). With SP goggles and +6 wis from goggles, at 467 SP which is enough. I do run dry at times though, but when effectively managing sp, rarely a problem. I keep lesser and normal sp pots around jic.

6. Spells?

Assessment: Zeal, Divine Favor and resist energy I use all the time. I like to have CMW for minor healing (getting a unconscious person up quick). Prayer I dont use as much as I should (too many clickies already). I keep virtue for those times sitting around waiting and throwing out every buff possible. Resistance? Only 2 min w extended and not anything great. Rarely use it, wouldnt miss it. Angelskin? Only 2 min w extend and rarely use it, wouldnt miss it. Other lvl 2 spells stink and I never use. I keep lvl4 restoration loaded as its nice to take care of a neg level and to cure other ailments on the cheap. Actually many great lvl4 spells. Would love to have room for break enchantment. Stalwart pact and DW are great. Never used Holy Sword as I built my min2 Khopesh quick.

[MondoGrunday]

i am currently bringing up a pally/monk (currently 11 Paladin/2 Monk, will be 14/2 when done) i took monk for the feats and evasion, could have gone rogue since my int is fairly high having combat expertise. I love the build. I too went dualling kopeshes. I went halfling for the extra bonus to dex and the bonuses to saves. the stack nice with the monk and pally saves . I agree totally with dumping wis. You can build it up enough thru equip and enhancements, no need to waste precious stat points there. i went intimidate instead of concentrate and I'm actually trying to get my umd up. (another reason to consider rogue for those of you planning a build). I have very few skill points to spend, so i only went heal, balance, umd and intimidate.
i'm tempted to splash fighter for the feat and str bonus ( 2 lvls). tower shield use would be nice and +2 to fort save.
I orginally planned for 1 wiz level for extend and spells and points, but with the zeal and stuff at the high lvls i'm not sure I can swing it. Sorc possibly too for more spell points, but no extend. Even cleric crossed my mind, no loss to bab.
think im staying 14/2 to get to 18/2 to keep prestige open.
I love the high saves this toon has, fun to play.
good assessment btw, I agree on pretty much all accounts.
mondo

[SteeleTrueheart]

Wisdom as a dump stat:

Everybody does this now, I have done it on one of my guys but I would like to point out that WIS is supposed to be an important stat for paladins. Don't whine when they implement an enhancement that uses base WIS as a requirement.

[MondoGrunday]

oh, i'll definately whine if they change a game mechanic that ruins my toon. that never happens.... they killed my batman pally of 2 years ago, they're going to kill any future barb builds with the crit rage nerf, and many others that i'm sure everyone is aware of. corrections to errors? maybe, but if so, let me re correct my toon to reflect the change in the game.
i never build a toon about what "might" be. sometimes it bites me in the ass, but building a toon on speculation is just rediculous.
until then I'm enjoying my low wis with no negetve drawbacks

[Borror0]

Don't whine when they implement an enhancement that uses base WIS as a requirement.

That'd be pretty dumb from them.

How to **** off your playerbase: Make them regret a decision they cannot change.

[Ganak]

Even if they do make wis important beyond sp, still can start at 8 and easily get a respectable 16. 18 with a +3 tome and +1 human enhancement. +4 tomes will drop in the future too. Plus we've seen exceptional ability stats on shroud weps and dt armor. Reason suggests we'll see more of this on different raid items or crafting in the future.
A final end game wis 20 is not out of the question if necessary.

8 wis now works great, and lets me currently have a 28 str, 28 chr, 14 int...

[Borror0]

Even if they do make wis important beyond sp, still can start at 8 and easily get a respectable 16.

I think he meant base Wis but I could be wrong.

[Kalanth]

I couldn't bring myself to do Wis as a dump stat on my Tempest Paladin. I get just enough use out of spells from Ranger and Paladin that having a base 12 was the right choice. Level cap goes up and I will move Ranger up some more for Barkskin as well (and then likely take extend at 18). So far so good, loving the speed and deadliness of the character.

[hu-flung-pu]

Wisdom as a dump stat:

Everybody does this now, I have done it on one of my guys but I would like to point out that WIS is supposed to be an important stat for paladins. Don't whine when they implement an enhancement that uses base WIS as a requirement.

And if this happens Paladins will be in the shape Monks are.

They NEED too many stats.

[bobbryan2]

Wisdom as a dump stat:

Everybody does this now, I have done it on one of my guys but I would like to point out that WIS is supposed to be an important stat for paladins. Don't whine when they implement an enhancement that uses base WIS as a requirement.

Why wouldn't we whine about that?

[bobbryan2]

I couldn't bring myself to do Wis as a dump stat on my Tempest Paladin. I get just enough use out of spells from Ranger and Paladin that having a base 12 was the right choice. Level cap goes up and I will move Ranger up some more for Barkskin as well (and then likely take extend at 18). So far so good, loving the speed and deadliness of the character.

I thought as you once. Started my tempest Ranger at 14 wisdom.

Then I started my Paladin at 8... and he has 522 SP with only a +1 tome. Why anyone would start a Paladin with more than 8 is beyond me. The only use is an easier time casting spells while leveling up.

[Borror0]

And if this happens Paladins will be in the shape Monks are.

They NEED too many stats.

If you think this is monks' problem, then you are mistaken. Pure S&B paladins ans monks share the same problem, actually.

To paladins' advantage, though, they can also be decent DPSers which is why monks are in a worse shape than paladins. Also, monks class features are fairly weak. A lot of help could be given to monks by improving their finishing moves/adding new one.

Requiring a lot of stats is never a problem. It's the power that counts.

[hu-flung-pu]

I'm having the same discussion on the monk boards now.

This isn't really the place to discuss it, but a dumpstat would have to be chosen, and if wisdom suddenly became so important to require it, then the next logical step is CON. And a front line soldier who relies on his LoH isn't going to last very long. Resulting in a gimped class.

[Borror0]

This isn't really the place to discuss it, but a dumpstat would have to be chosen, and if wisdom suddenly became so important to require it, then the next logical step is CON. And a front line soldier who relies on his LoH isn't going to last very long. Resulting in a gimped class.

Illogical. Your argument is "By having too many abilities worth investing in, a class becomes gimped."

The quantity of abilities that are rewarding for a class is totally irrelevant. In the end, it's the power level that counts. If Turbine was to implement a feat that would add (Wis modifier + Cha modifier + Int modifier + Dex modifier)*paladin level to a paladin's damage, it would make paladins a very strong class and NOT a weaker one. Priorities would have to be put but that does not mean the class would be weak.

Checking the monk forums now.

[SteeleTrueheart]

Don't whine when they implement an enhancement that uses base WIS as a requirement.

Yes. I did say base WIS. How many angry dwarf paladins were there when the CHA enhancement came along. Who saw that coming?

As per the compendium and in game advice:

Recommended Attributes: Charisma, Strength, Wisdom, Constitution

Wisdom is considered a very important stat. In DDO and PnP.

I am not saying you should never dump WIS, just remind yourself that it is a build choice and it could have consequences. Don't complain later. They have warned you that Wis is a recommended attribute. I have started with an 8 on my THF alt, even though it went against all I believe in as a Paladin builder. And it works realllllly well.

But my latest build has a base 10 and read a +2 tome asap. I consider him future proofed but I will definitely be on the lookout for a +4 tome just to be sure.

I have been thinking since I read it, it is gonna suck if Mordenkainen's Disjunction temp negates our items or some other mob tactic takes away our casting ability for a time.

[hu-flung-pu]

Illogical. Your argument is "By having too many abilities worth investing in, a class becomes gimped."

The quantity of abilities that are rewarding for a class is totally irrelevant. In the end, it's the power level that counts. If Turbine was to implement a feat that would add (Wis modifier + Cha modifier + Int modifier + Dex modifier)*paladin level to a paladin's damage, it would make paladins a very strong class and NOT a weaker one. Priorities would have to be put but that does not mean the class would be weak.

Checking the monk forums now.

You're on some heavy duty drugs.

[Aeneas]

Keeping up prayer is one of the single most helpful things you can do as a paladin, clerics often forget to cast it or prefer not to spend a spell slot on it. But if you're in a group with 8 TWF melee's whacking on Arry, you're getting an extra point of damage per swing in that group which quickly adds up and effectively ups "your" damage by a good deal more than divine might and divine favor do. Not to mention that it's helping with their saves and skill checks and debuffing enemy mobs.

Now please change the divine favor and might durations to match zeal and prayer so we pallies can find some order.

[hu-flung-pu]

Which is why paladins try to up their WIS AFTER creation just to get the bare minimum to cast fourth level spells.

[Borror0]

You're on some heavy duty drugs.

Cool.

[MondoGrunday]

can i have some?