Capstone WF Barbarian - Frenzied/Glancing Blow

[kamimitsu]

I'm rolling up a WF barbarian FrenziedIII for use with capstone and WF Great Weapon Aptitude. The idea is to intimidate trash mobs, cleave, and great cleave. Then, standard attack w/ glancing blow anything that is left (with some incidental guard damage). Rinse, and repeat. He'll be using Great Axes and Mauls primarily (based on the current guidelines of FB only applying to crits of 19+.)

My current build plan looks something like this:

STR 18 (all level ups here)
DEX 9
CON 17
INT 9
WIS 9
CHA 9

I don't have a bevvy of +2 tomes, but +1s are cheap enough that I can round out DEX, INT, WIS, and CHA so as to not have any negative modifiers. Hopefully +3 tomes will not be so rare by Level20 cap, either.

Feats: I'm not sure which to take where but something like:
1 Power Attack
3 THF
6 Cleave
9 Imp Crit Slash
12 ITHF
15 Great Cleave
18 GTHF

I'd love to fit in Stunning blow and/or toughness, but I just don't see where. And since the focus of this build is to maximize damage to a circle of mobs, I think Cleave and Great Cleave (on separate timers, I believe) is pretty important... the same goes for the THF line.

Skill points: Intimidate, Jump and something ?Balance(cross class), Listen, Swim?

Enhancements: Frenzied Berserker III, WF Great Weapon Aptitude III, Rage Enhancements, CON enhancements


So, the question is (and one that we won't likely have an answer to for at least a few more weeks), will the THF, WF Great Weapon Aptitude, Capstone and FB glancing blow bonuses (that's a lot of bonuses!) be enough to give up Toughness and/or Stunning Blow? I realize I could take 2 fighter for the feats I need, but I kinda like the flavor of the Barbarian Capstone and I'd like to see just how ruthless Glancing Blows can get.
Thoughts, opinions, snark?

[BlackSteel]

I would dump great cleave in favor of toughness. Why? Because frenzy B. gives you Supreme cleave, which has no cool down, but costs a few hp. If you really want to cleave everything, then you might as well hit it with supreme, and grab toughness feat + enhancements for the butt loads of extra hp.

Also cleave on a thf is a bit underwhelming, especially when you'll b able to apply weapon procs. It slows down your attack (unless you lead with it as first attack, no repeating) and only does 2x as much as your normal glancing blows do. Which by the time you've fit in a cleave in the middle of fighting, you couldve have already gotten off two glancing blows & hit your main target a few times.

personally I'm not looking foward to grabbing regular cleave at 18. But since its a prereq for the PrE theres not much choice.

[Nick_RC]

Ur stat allocation is a bit odd...unless ur doing it because you intend to use silver flame pots alot

Try

S-18
D-14
C-16
I-8 (beg borrow steal a +2 at lvl1)
W-10
C-6.

U will be getting ALOT of agro. Make sure your friendly neighborhood caster keeps you displaced. This stat line up will offer you more protection vs spells than ur old one.

Skills

Intim. Balance(get u on ur feet faster when you got tht many mobs surrounding you), Tumble (If ur planning on using DoD alot), Spot(seeing the monsters to round up is always nice..)

What Black said also about Gr Cleave. /signed. (cleave 2HF>2wf so not quite sure what he was getting at but i have no doubt there is logic there!)

N

[Vra]

Spot(seeing the monsters to round up is always nice..)

listen would make more sense imo, as its a class skill for barbs, doubble bang for the buck

[maddmatt70]

listen would make more sense imo, as its a class skill for barbs, doubble bang for the buck

No. Listen is not useful in ddo.

[hu-flung-pu]

No. Listen is not useful in ddo.

I'd believe that if Monsters move silently skills weren't so low.

Plus you get the main reason to take listen, the DM alerts when you have a great listen skill!

[maddmatt70]

I surprised that none of you even mentioned umd. Umd even on a barbarian is more useful then any of the skills you mentioned other then perhaps intimidate and balance. All my newer characters have umd..

[BlackSteel]

What Black said also about Gr Cleave. /signed. (cleave 2HF>2wf so not quite sure what he was getting at but i have no doubt there is logic there!)

simply that it takes time to cleave, so if you're interested in doing damage, the best time to cleave is your opening attack. It s too clunky and too much of a delay to employ as anything other than your first move, or to get full Bab on the move. With this in mind, the character already has two cleave choices, regular cleave, and supreme cleave.

I tried to work cleave in for a long time on my barb, thinking I could use the cleave animation to reset my attack chain, rather than sidestepping. The delay actually made it worse than autoattack.

[Nick_RC]

Also cleave on a thf is a bit underwhelming, .

This is what i was referring to black. Thought u were comparing the 2 styles. Cleave in general sucks.

Matty - re umd - dont like it - really no need. Everything u use is crafted or raid loot. Chest loot sucks balls pretty much. And Intimidate/balance/spot/tumble for a wf > umd. Healing silver flame pots ftw. ressing just craft. no real use for it brotha.

N

[maddmatt70]

Matty - re umd - dont like it - really no need. Everything u use is crafted or raid loot. Chest loot sucks balls pretty much. And Intimidate/balance/spot/tumble for a wf > umd. Healing silver flame pots ftw. ressing just craft. no real use for it brotha.

N

Well sure you can make rez clickies, loot a teleport mask, and make other shroud clickies cloudkill, haste what have you, but those could either run out or in the case of the tele mask cost serious $. There are also a whole horde of things that don't come on clickies such as restore scrolls if you get negative levels. We could also talk about equipping a rr item as well.

Let me give you one of my umd examples. I have a dwarven cleric (started her with an 8 cha instead of 6, no clerical cha enhancements for her), but I put full ranks of umd into her anyway despite her not needing umd for restore or raise deads of course.

Her situational Umd is:
+ 9 = ranks
+ 3 = 16 cha with + 2 cha tome and +6 cha item and +8 start cha
+ 4 = gh.
+3 = golden cartouche.
+ 1 = voice of master
+3 = dragontouched armor which I throw on situationally.
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23

My cleric can teleport around a decent % of time and has access to virtually any item and can use a fair % of level 5 and under scrolls and can even get a level 6 scroll done if needed. A wf starting with 6 cha would have a 22 umd with the same gear and could do alot of the same stuff with the addition of clerical spells such as raise deads and restore scrolls.

I know you are a fast twitch player Nick but you will not convince me that tumble is more valuable and spot bah especially after he gets the Vod goggles...

[Nick_RC]

Well sure you can make rez clickies, loot a teleport mask, and make other shroud clickies cloudkill, haste what have you, but those could either run out or in the case of the tele mask cost serious $. There are also a whole horde of things that don't come on clickies such as restore scrolls if you get negative levels. We could also talk about equipping a rr item as well.

Let me give you one of my umd examples. I have a dwarven cleric (started her with an 8 cha instead of 6, no clerical cha enhancements for her), but I put full ranks of umd into her anyway despite her not needing umd for restore or raise deads of course.

Her situational Umd is:
+ 9 = ranks
+ 3 = 16 cha with + 2 cha tome and +6 cha item and +8 start cha
+ 4 = gh.
+3 = golden cartouche.
+ 1 = voice of master
+3 = dragontouched armor which I throw on situationally.
-----
23

My cleric can teleport around a decent % of time and has access to virtually any item and can use a fair % of level 5 and under scrolls and can even get a level 6 scroll done if needed. A wf starting with 6 cha would have a 22 umd with the same gear and could do alot of the same stuff with the addition of clerical spells such as raise deads and restore scrolls.

I know you are a fast twitch player Nick but you will not convince me that tumble is more valuable and spot bah especially after he gets the Vod goggles...

All valid points. But what RR stuff are you talking about? thats the thing... weapons? shroud. Armour. Dragontouch. Clothing...raid loot.?? I have massive inventory issues on my barb without thinking about carrying scrolls. Fire/cold shield would be the only ones id bother with 2bh. Restoration.... wf. Raise dead ... yeah useful but nothing a clickie does eventually cheaper and better. Each to their own.

Re tumble: if he plans on using DoD alot (and most wf do) tumble > umd. Especially if you can get it high enough to flip.

[BlackSteel]

I'm sad that they chose to implement supreme cleave, which will see marginal use; instead of putting improved and supreme power attack attached to the pre. The PrC is supposed to get both, and supreme power attack would have gone a looooooooooooonnnnnng ways to helping THF'ers, more so than proc damage on glancing blows, or the viscious damage. This is even true for those that choose to gimp them selves by standing still. A 4-to-1 trade in on power attack would have been amazing.