help with my new WF monk please!

[avatar28]

dear fellow monksters.
I'm calling on some expertise from you fellow monks to help me mold my new WF monk. I've never rolled a monk before and thought that I would ask for help in the early stages to help plan him to be most effective.

He started with a base 18 Str, 15 Dex ( I have +2 dex tome) and 14 wis.
Right now I have him in the sun stance, and basically have plans to make him dps built around maxing out str.
So I know I will take 4 levels of str at 4,8,12,16.... i'm just wondering what is the max I can get his AC to, considering my start out dex and wis scores. i'm hoping to get his AC as high as possible without switching out from sun stance ( i'm addicted to str builds). Any suggestions on gear to get him and enhancements, feats to take would be appreciated. thx

[hu-flung-pu]

I can already tell you, he's not going to be happy past fourth level.

Wisdom is the most important stat for a monk.

Neglecting stunning fist benefits, where the WIS bonuses really come in to play is with your finishers, and quivering palm.

Quivering palm is insta-kill. Not stun then hit once or twice to kill.

Trembling earth is great against casters, allowing you to ignore them and move on to the tough guys.

Raging sea finisher is great against a big ogre for instance.

All those depend on your WIS bonus. Now, you don't need to max WIS out, but it needs to be a primary, or at least secondary stat you need to focus on as you level him up.

You neglecting CON will be noticable the moment you get critically hit.

[Averroes]

I can already tell you, he's not going to be happy past fourth level.

Wisdom is the most important stat for a monk.

Neglecting stunning fist benefits, where the WIS bonuses really come in to play is with your finishers, and quivering palm.

Quivering palm is insta-kill. Not stun then hit once or twice to kill.

I dunno about that... I have a similar monk -- started 16 str/14 dex/14 wisdom, now 30/17(22)/24 in sun stance IIRC. Quivering palm works fine on normal -- good for racking up kills in part 1 of shroud, for instance. Useless on elite, but unless you're packing 30+ wisdom and gimping other stats for it, I don't think there's a way around that. Even with max wisdom, your DC will lag 5 or more points behind a maxed out arcane's FOD DC. (10+7+15+(1 to 3)=33-35 vs. potentially 10+8+10=28. Monster saves are balanced around arcane DCs, not monk finishers, and a spread of 5-7 on a d20 is huge.

The finishers are pretty much useless at end-game as far as I can tell, except the buffs. Why disable a caster when I can kill it in 5 swings?


As to the OP, I'm pretty happy with my str-based TWF wf monk. AC with full raid buffs can hit the high 50s wearing a docent of defiance -- higher if I wore any actual AC gear. The docent of defiance (and max ranks in tumble!) is essential; without 70+ AC, that DR is your only damage mitigation until you can rack up a couple of stoneskin clickies from shroud or DQ. Stunning blow is a must-have, along with some bursting handwraps of weighted 4 or 5 (no, they don't help your SB DC, but they stun things 8 or 10% of the time on their own...). Stunning fist doesn't have as high a DC, but it doesn't hurt. 3 TWF feats, improved crit, and toughness, and I think the only choice left is a monk feat (and other than toughness and stunning fist, they're all pretty equally useless -- I took lightning reflexes...).

Beyond that, at end-game you'll want both air and earth stance as far as you can take them, not because you'll ever use the stances, but because you can alternate the attacks (air 3, earth 3, air 2, earth 2, air 1, repeat) when fighting harry and sally and make up for some of the DPS you lose by not being able to bypass DR.

The build doesn't really shine until you get GTWF at 15. It was far and away the most expensive character I've leveled, and also the least pleasant. Getting squished by everything at low levels sucks. But once you get abundant step at 14, it's all worthwhile. Play it like a barbarian; carry 300 repair serious pots at all times. Get madstone boots ASAP, as well as either a bloodstone or the goggles with seeker 4 on them, as you'll be stunning things early and often, and every bit of crit damage helps.


In any event, good luck. You may want to reconsider the 18 starting strength -- you can't afford to dump con, as you will get hit by everything and defiance, although awesome, can fail you when you need it...

[rimble]

3 TWF feats, improved crit, and toughness, and I think the only choice left is a monk feat (and other than toughness and stunning fist, they're all pretty equally useless -- I took lightning reflexes...).

Power Attack.

You may want to reconsider the 18 starting strength -- you can't afford to dump con, as you will get hit by everything and defiance, although awesome, can fail you when you need it...

Seconded. Monks can't afford to max any stat at creation.

[Averroes]

Power Attack.

Good call! Forgot that one. Everyone must have power attack. And some warforged power attack.

[Red_Knight]

Good call! Forgot that one. Everyone must have power attack. And some warforged power attack.

So, everyone 'must' have power attack huh? Sorry, I'm not seeing the need for it really. Cleave maybe, but not power attack.

[rimble]

So, everyone 'must' have power attack huh? Sorry, I'm not seeing the need for it really. Cleave maybe, but not power attack.

It's free damage when it matters, i.e. raid buffed up to +40 ToHit. Maybe 'must' is a little strong, but we were talking about the Monk free feats, and that's definitely up there near the top of that short list.

[Averroes]

So, everyone 'must' have power attack huh? Sorry, I'm not seeing the need for it really. Cleave maybe, but not power attack.

It may be possible to come up with a build for which power attack doesn't make the list of necessary feats, but other than pure casters I have yet to see one.

Even my 12sorc/2pally/2rogue has power attack, and warforged power attack.

If your attack bonus isn't so high that you never miss with it on at end-game with appropriate buffs, I'd call it a problem with your build. MOB ACs are so low across the board that power attack is free damage when it matters -- shroud, VOD, and nearly every red-named boss out there.

Even intimitanks should have power attack for the multitude of times when they aren't turtled up.

Cleave. Meh. That's an "I have everything I need already" feat. Cleave hurts DPS in the situations where DPS matters -- single, red-named targets.

[Red_Knight]

Here's the kicker, I haven't seen any of the end game content really. I've done the prereqs for VoN for instance, but never the raid. And I so far have encountered enough things on my meleers that I have trouble hitting that power attack just doesn't seem useful yet.

[Hellllboy]

I made a WF Monk that is similar to your build. I think my base stats were 16 str/16 con/14 dex/14 wis and have since capped him. I enjoy playing him very much. He is a STR based monk in fire stance with tons of DPS and Huge H.P. (I think 396 at 16th level)

What ever you are looking to do with your Monk will determine how you focus stats.

If AC is the goal of your build-this may not be the direction you want to go. I think the highest I got my Monk (AC) is 46 unbuffed. I would suggest a different race-perhaps Elf or Halfling.

If you want a tough-DPS style Tankish Monk build-WF is fine.

The biggest suggestion, overall, I can make is at the start to keep you main stat focus pretty even 14-16ish for the 4 mains (STR,CON,DEX,WIS).

As for items-I would suggest Madstone boots-as you can use most of your Monk abilities while Raged (including all attacks, medetation and wholeness of body) and will increase your A/C, H.P. and To Hit/Dmg.

I would also look at 2 weapon fighting for the extra hand-to-hand attack-but make sure your end result base DEX is 15 or higher.

Have fun and happy hunting!

[Averroes]

Here's the kicker, I haven't seen any of the end game content really. I've done the prereqs for VoN for instance, but never the raid. And I so far have encountered enough things on my meleers that I have trouble hitting that power attack just doesn't seem useful yet.

Ahh yeah, relatively few builds can make use of power attack before level 10 or so. Some, like my sorc multiclass mentioned above, can more or less only make use of it at endgame when fully buffed.

Although, even at low levels, there are always things like earth elementals and ogres that have relatively high hitpoint totals and negligible ACs.

But yeah, my comments are directed at people planning for level 16, planning to have access to high-end weapons, planar girds, divine power clickies where appropriate, infinite stacks of rage potions, and planning to run raids where bards will almost always be a part of the party makeup.

[Red_Knight]

The problem with planning for endgame from the get go is... That can be a long time coming. Especially if your not the sort to rush through things ASAP. Grouping can be great xp, but I don't always feel like ding that fifty-third STK run I'm being invited to on my level six sorc for instance. That means I end up soloing, or now duoing with a friend. We may not get to level 10 for quite some time.

For the high HP/low AC mobs... That's where I'm rather enjoying having fists of light. Can heal from the big hits before the next one connects.

[Averroes]

The problem with planning for endgame from the get go is... That can be a long time coming.

I've done it enough times that I no longer stop to smell the roses/do the optionals/loot the chests.

I think my new bard took about 15-20 hrs of playtime to get midway through level 9. Probably another 30-ish hours to cap him if I don't screw around and solo stuff for favor.

And yeah, Fists of Light is nice. Less so on warforged though, as they get healed for zero or 1 per hit untill they achieve 100% divine healing (which is hard without the bracers from hound of xoriat).