Devs... Simple Answer for Simple Question

[barecm]

Last posted 9/6/08 by Eladrin:

"We've got an additional sub-enhancement coming that will allow the Arcane Archer to imbue their arrow with a Magic Missile effect, granting additional force damage. More are planned in the future, including things like 'Fireball arrow'."

Fireball arrow (or the like) ... in or out for mod 9?

Don't need a huge explanation, just let us know if it is "in" or "out".

Thx
Ranged Combat (aka: that 'other' combat)

[Memnir]

I think they said that the only ranger PrE going up in Mod 9 is Tempest - and the Arcane Archer and the Deepwood Sniper are going to be left out in the cold till Mod 10 (at the earliest).

If true, and I strongly think that it is, I guess we know which versions of Rangers the Devs prefer..

[Borror0]

Arcane Archer is not planned for Module 9.

[KuRRuPT]

Hope they make you be pure class in order for you to use it...

[Borror0]

Hope they make you be pure class in order for you to use it...

Why?

[Aesop]

Why?

I wonder the same question. I wonder why people are so geared towards cookie cutter builds. why people insist that only pure classes deserve anything. why they believe that multiclassing is evil. its a strange notion to me.

Aesop

[barecm]

Sigh... Oh well. I just wonder why they are making improvements to enhancements for something that really doesn't need any more help (tempest ranger) and ignore something that desperately needs help (ranged combat). But then again, maybe I am not so surprised since Turbine has long since punted on ranged combat.

Just make the statement already Turbine... you hate ranged combat and will continue to leave it under developed in favor of everything else. At least then I will stop keeping my hopes up for anything related to ranged combat.

[Zenako]

I wonder the same question. I wonder why people are so geared towards cookie cutter builds. why people insist that only pure classes deserve anything. why they believe that multiclassing is evil. its a strange notion to me.

Aesop

Not that MC is evil, but it is the root of almost ALL of the "broken builds" that abuse the rules to achieve godlike levels of bonuses. Splash levels almost ALL give you a disproportionate share of the perks and bonuses in the first few levels of the splash.

This is not a DDO thing, but really a D&D 3.5 thing...

[Borror0]

why they believe that multiclassing is evil.

I think that they believe "Traps are a rogue's job" and that a rogue splash does not qualify you as a rogue.

[negative]

Why should you be pure class for AA when in all honestly, it should require you to MC before you can get it. Rangers aren't Arcane! I'm glad they threw us a bone though and let pure rangers pick it up.

I am pretty sure Eladrin did say that AA would atleast get their +5 arrows at level 18 (20 Elf) though in Mod 9. I will be extremely disapointed if that is not the case.

[Borror0]

Just make the statement already Turbine... you hate ranged combat and will continue to leave it under developed in favor of everything else.

Ranged combat is far from easy to fix. I have yet to read even one suggestion on how to fix it on these forums.

So far, all I have read either made it less pathetic or overpowered.

[Zenako]

Ranged combat is far from easy to fix. I have yet to read even one suggestion on how to fix it on these forums.

So far, all I have read either made it less pathetic or overpowered.

Quite true.

Ranged combat applies to ALL characters, so anything that significantly improves the normal characters ranged attack ability, is very likely to end up overpowered in the hands of a ranged specialist (Ranger or dedicated build). Even as things stand now, take any ranged specialist and give them the right tool and they can shread mobs with little to no risk to themselves, with all of the current limitations or foibles in that attack mode. (Red names and bosses are another matter, but that is true for melee and casters as well.)

Fixes to ranged combat that only affect the specialists (like altering manyshot cooldown times for one example), will do nothing but enhance the divide between those specialists and the rest. (This may or may not be a good thing depending on your perspective on game / class / feat / skills balance.)

The issues with missing shots due to lag, is probably not something that is subject to any sort of easy fix without changing a lot of core coding, and even then, all that might happen is a reduction in the frequency of the effect. If you line your targets so that they are along the flight line of the arrow/bolt, then it is almost a non-issue. Firing across their line of motion is when the effect is more often noted, but I personally do not mind it that much, in that is effectively simulates the need to "lead the target" when the target is often moving erratically anyway.

[Borror0]

Ranged combat applies to ALL characters, so anything that significantly improves the normal characters ranged attack ability, is very likely to end up overpowered in the hands of a ranged specialist (Ranger or dedicated build).

Umm, no, that is not even close to problematic (unless you meant player skills?).

You aim to make ranged specialist balanced, and the non specialize will be as powerful as they happen to be.

Even as things stand now, take any ranged specialist and give them the right tool and they can shread mobs with little to no risk to themselves, with all of the current limitations or foibles in that attack mode. (Red names and bosses are another matter, but that is true for melee and casters as well.)

Closer to the real problem: since ranged DPS currently does not stack with melee DPS, either ranged is underpowered or overpowered.

Either the combat style allows you to DPS without problem, or it's just a weaker form of real DPS methods like TWF and THF.

[negative]

Closer to the real problem: since ranged DPS currently does not stack with melee DPS, either ranged is underpowered or overpowered.

It's definently worth pointing out, that even now, 1 ranged character in a group of melee does not contribute. But 4 well equiped ranged characters with a healer and arcane can dominate content, even in enclosed spaces, even given the level of gimp that ranged combat is at.

It makes it very difficult to balance. Still, I hate that I use TWF most of the time on my AA.

[maddmatt70]

It's definently worth pointing out, that even now, 1 ranged character in a group of melee does not contribute. But 4 well equiped ranged characters with a healer and arcane can dominate content, even in enclosed spaces, even given the level of gimp that ranged combat is at.

It makes it very difficult to balance. Still, I hate that I use TWF most of the time on my AA.

I am going to disagree with you. First of all, nearly all ranged combatants if built well have some melee capabilities (my ranged character has all the twf feats - she is 14 fighter 1 bard 1 ranger). What I find my range character does well is click on manyshot and shoot the enemy in strategic situations very well. My ranged character provides an added dimension to a group and because of this strategic advantage she really enhances the group's versatility. For example in Prey of the hunter when the dragon is launching people 100s of feet away and the enemy clerics are dropping bb everywhere she just clicks on manyshot a safe distance away and either shoots the red name or clerics depending. She is also great at kiting the dragon if need be. If there is a bunch of mobs charging down the hallway even without manyshot on she can clean up with improved precise shot (ex. skellys in madstone charging down the hallways).

[Borror0]

I am going to disagree with you.

Ranged combat is fine as is? If not, what would you change?

[Thrudh]

It's definently worth pointing out, that even now, 1 ranged character in a group of melee does not contribute. But 4 well equiped ranged characters with a healer and arcane can dominate content, even in enclosed spaces, even given the level of gimp that ranged combat is at.

It makes it very difficult to balance. Still, I hate that I use TWF most of the time on my AA.

I did Stormcleave once with 4 rangers... We all decided to use bows for fun... taking turns with manyshot, we completely dominated that quest. I don't think anything ever got close enough to hit us.

[Zenako]

Ranged combat is fine as is? If not, what would you change?

He was disagreeing with the assertion by negative that 1 ranged character in group does not contribute, not about certain fundamentals of ranged combat period, at least that is how I was reading it.

[Zenako]

I did Stormcleave once with 4 rangers... We all decided to use bows for fun... taking turns with manyshot, we completely dominated that quest. I don't think anything ever got close enough to hit us.

Been there, done that with SC, Gwylans, Irestone, and even Madstone once, not to mention almost any explorer area.

[negative]

I am going to disagree with you. First of all, nearly all ranged combatants if built well have some melee capabilities (my ranged character has all the twf feats - she is 14 fighter 1 bard 1 ranger). What I find my range character does well is click on manyshot and shoot the enemy in strategic situations very well. My ranged character provides an added dimension to a group and because of this strategic advantage she really enhances the group's versatility. For example in Prey of the hunter when the dragon is launching people 100s of feet away and the enemy clerics are dropping bb everywhere she just clicks on manyshot a safe distance away and either shoots the red name or clerics depending. She is also great at kiting the dragon if need be. If there is a bunch of mobs charging down the hallway even without manyshot on she can clean up with improved precise shot (ex. skellys in madstone charging down the hallways).

Any tempest ranger can do all that as well. Heck, the fact that your first point is to emphasize that you have the TWF doesn't say much for ranged combat.

And lets face it. If you made rangers pick a combat sytle, TWF rangers would lose very little, while ranged rangers would probalby pick the TWF style.

But if you really want it, I'll revise my statement. 1 ranged character in a group of melee does not contribute past manyshot and TWF, making them just another melee member of the group.