Why do people hate battle clerics?

[Cold_Stele]

This is fun.

Ok firstly we had how many melees our side in a 3 and 3 split? If you only had 2 guys your side it sounds like you had trouble controlling newbies running off too.

Now this one baffles me - what so horrendous about a sorc standing in the box and firewalling the corners? Just cos it's not the way that you do it doesn't make it wrong.

I'm sorry that my guildies make you feel upset and insecure, but that's really no excuse for you c**ping on an entire pug because yoiu take offence that someone from my guild is on it.

Still waiting for that list of names so I can squelch.

[Desteria]

So I put on my comments I'm a battle cleric but I rarely get invites to groups, and when I don't have a comment up I get invites. When I'm in a group no one says anything about me melee, although when I ask how is my battle cleric people respond as if they never knew I was a battle cleric (is that good or bad? ^^').

The problem is there are a lot of **** POOR battle clerics thats forget there is 2 PARTS to the term battle cleric 1 part battle thats mena you are likly built to melle, 2nd part is still CLERIC wich menas your still a capable healer....

A GOOD cleric brings mroe then one thing to the table all clerics should bring the ability to kepe a gorup on there feat thats sorta the whole point of being a CLERIC!!! after that ever cleric shoudl have a(mutiple) secondary aspect(s) they bring to a group that aspect can be one of mainy things, buffing heavy maby to make stuff eayer, though witth mass bufss etc most every cleric cna do this as well, but mroe compleat buffing can still be done by soem one that really focuses on it; OR ofensive casting max emped BB's comit falls searign lights etc.; OR CC casting, GTR command comit fall sound burst; OR MELLE DPS ie battle cleric.

A good battle cleric is a great resorce to have in any group, a porr battle cleric is a ***** fighter, who might not even bother to self heal!! the problem is there are a LOT of the latter in pugs in ddo and that has runined the reputation of the term battle cleric.

[Enochroot]

This is fun.

Ok firstly we had how many melees our side in a 3 and 3 split? If you only had 2 guys your side it sounds like you had trouble controlling newbies running off too.

Now this one baffles me - what so horrendous about a sorc standing in the box and firewalling the corners? Just cos it's not the way that you do it doesn't make it wrong.

I'm sorry that my guildies make you feel upset and insecure, but that's really no excuse for you c**ping on an entire pug because yoiu take offence that someone from my guild is on it.

Still waiting for that list of names so I can squelch.

Wow, you don't even remember. We split 2 and 4 for some reason, even after the caster on my side said he was capable of self-healing. I'm glad you were paying attention TO THE PARTY. And you had trouble "controlling newbies running off"?!?!? Because YOU couldn't stand in the box?! What, are you too good for the box? See, that's the problem, you and your kin think you're too good for things, and won't do them, even if it helps the party. I have no problem contributing. You are actually blaming your side failing four times in a row on some noobie, instead of looking at yourself. It's f-ing sad.

And what's wrong about your strat is YOUR SIDE FAILED FOUR TIMES IN A ROW. And you stand here blaming ME? I could honestly give a RATS *** where anyone stood. But YOUR side was failing, not mine. (and note, again, you had FOUR people)

You're yet another bone-headed WF Barbarian melee that doesn't even know where the party WAS at the time, doesn't understand resource utilization, and is just ****ed a cleric was killing when "you're the barbarian."

All of my names look exactly the same, it shouldn't be hard for you to figure out.

Oh, for the record, no one in my group EVER has to use resources unless you really want to. But if you're already sucking pots at 60%, i'm not using a heal until you're much lower than that, so feel free to suck your pots. It's not my money.

[Desteria]

If I join a Shroud run as adventurer 12, and there is only 1 other cleric, CJ has just signed up for healing duty, and I would expect some people to be ****ed off if I as whacking Harry with my Transmuting Khopesh of Evil Outsider Bane (still looking for greater) when barbarians are dropping like flies.

What they had one cleric already thats all you realyl need for shroud your just there as support healign it;s easy to do quicken mass support healign while beating harryies brains out, and i know you can

heck i know on my cleric in part 4-5 in above situation i'm goan be alternating betwene mass cures and commit falls and god forbit the pug that still thinsk it needed 3 clerics I can tell you 90% of what i cast will be comitfall/searlign light to make up for our lack of DPS taking 3 clerics.

[Cold_Stele]

Wrong it was a 3+3 split.

I chug pots because of idiots like you who won't heal because they think I forget how to play if I'm on my WF Barb instead of my Rgr/Monk. If you want to know why I rolled him btw it's because mod 9 is going to be all about DPS. I guess that escaped your notice huh?

As for resources you normally use in your group, you really don't have a clue do you? It was a PUG remember??? We had 2 Chinese, 2 newbies and us. Considering that, yes we blazed through. Who gives a cr*p that it took us 2 minutes longer to complete than usual?

You used NOTHING in the terms of resources, stop trying to defend your actions.

Still waiting for an answer - why is it so terribly wrong for sorc to firewall corners and stand in box hmmm?

You need to go back and read the stuff you're writing - you prejudged me because of my guild and because of my toon. Let's hope you're a little more receptive to new people in RL eh?

[muffinlad]

What they had one cleric already thats all you realyl need for shroud your just there as support healign it;s easy to do quicken mass support healign while beating harryies brains out, and i know you can

heck i know on my cleric in part 4-5 in above situation i'm goan be alternating betwene mass cures and commit falls and god forbit the pug that still thinsk it needed 3 clerics I can tell you 90% of what i cast will be comitfall/searlign light to make up for our lack of DPS taking 3 clerics.

You need one cleric when the hampsters have been fed, and the server is not acting as Satan's own pile by making your heals land 30 seconds after you throw them...so, yeah, I help with the healing. (ha!)

"This...is.....Khyber!" -King Leo-drama-lag-us

muffinhealer

[Voalkrynn2]

ok every BATTLECLERIC that i have ran with has been a SELFISH, INCONSIDERATE, IGNORANT, L33tSP3AKING n00b.
* ok not all of them did the l33t sp3ak*

but anyway, all they wanted to do was pretend they were barbars, and then hog all the healing for themselves, ignoring everyone else. now i am all for a cleric fighting when neccessary. i do my best but lets face it, my cleric is not built for fighting. i am a HEALER.

if ya wanna fight, BUILD A FIGHTER.
if ya wanna heal, BUILD A CLERIC.

end of story.

thank you for letting me rant.

BTW, this is my only major pet peeve.

unless you constantly bug me for healing. then i will let you die and feed you to the nearest batch of zombies.
and dont get mad at me for not healing you the INSTANT you get hurt, especially, if we are in a GROUP and others are hurt more than your one hp of damage. i work like the ER, the worse you are hurt, the faster you get taken care of.

ok now i am going to stop ranting before i start repeating myself. lol

If it prevents a party wipe then I will let others die to keep one person up and killing. Afterwards I will raise the others. Triage isn't just for disasters.

[barecm]

Every good cleric I have run with can produce offensively as well as maintain the group's health. If they can only do one of the two, they are not taking advantage of the class.

[Enochroot]

Wrong it was a 3+3 split.

I chug pots because of idiots like you who won't heal because they think I forget how to play if I'm on my WF Barb instead of my Rgr/Monk. If you want to know why I rolled him btw it's because mod 9 is going to be all about DPS. I guess that escaped your notice huh?

As for resources you normally use in your group, you really don't have a clue do you? It was a PUG remember??? We had 2 Chinese, 2 newbies and us. Considering that, yes we blazed through. Who gives a cr*p that it took us 2 minutes longer to complete than usual?

You used NOTHING in the terms of resources, stop trying to defend your actions.

Still waiting for an answer - why is it so terribly wrong for sorc to firewall corners and stand in box hmmm?

You need to go back and read the stuff you're writing - you prejudged me because of my guild and because of my toon. Let's hope you're a little more receptive to new people ok RL eh?

Well, it's possible it was a 2,3 and 1 split, I guess. We had 2 people on our side. There were 4 dots NEAR your side, maybe one wasn't inside the barrier.

I'd heal you all day long if you played smart, and stuck with your cleric. But you weren't, and didn't. I honestly don't care at all about your build, as long as you play him effectively. And I agree, it may be effective mod9 ... so? That has nothing to do with my clericing. Especially since this is mod8. And you chug pots unnecessarily, deal with it, don't blame it on me, or anyone else. I will quickened heal anyone when they get low enough for it, if they want to start potting/wanding before that, I can't stop them.

So, basically you're saying:

- I was a bad cleric
- We didn't use resources (sort of counter to point 1)
- We did use resources (sort of counter to point 2)
- One res was required (sort of counter to point 3)
- We blazed through the quest (sort of counter to point ... 1) *** Edit, changed my mind, going with counter to point 1 instead ***

These things just don't go together. What you're REALLY saying is you didn't have a cleric attached to your six, so the cleric was bad for YOU and the play style you choose to play. Well, learn to adapt my friend.

You say you are so good and you have these good strats, and your sig. indicates you were the leader/officer of some badass guild. Then why could you not organize 2 (or 3?) other people to defeat a simple encounter that pugs defeat easily? I say there is NOTHING wrong with your strat, aside from the fact you failed 4 times at a simple encounter. If it didn't work the first time, why would you do it again? And again? And again? Sounds like you're not as good as you think you are.

And this is all I need to hear: "You used NOTHING in the terms of resources, stop trying to defend your actions. " to make me believe I am in fact still the best cleric on the server. That's right, blazed the quest, no resources. Only ****ed off person is a THF WF Barbarian. Fine.

[Cold_Stele]

At no point did I say you were a bad cleric. What I actually said was that some Battle Clerics are arrogant, selfish and have a desperate need to assert some control over something in their lives for once. I guess that hit a little too close to home eh?

Oh btw maybe my Barb has had a few too many blows to the head but I don't ever remember being leader of that group (and even if I was my Chinese is a little rusty) so don't go blaming me for poor communication - we had people out of place on BOTH sides, we wasted two minutes, get over it.

You still can't help the prejudging can you? If a Barb can't play smart how did I keep myself up with just pots hmmm? Trust me I'm used to not getting heals in pugs, I don't need your cleric there nannying me.

Well we've given the good people of Stormreach enough entertainment for one day. Unlike you I have a RL to get on with. Before I go I just wanted to remind you it wasn't one p*ssed off Barb, it was a team of five other people you quit on - I guess that means nothing to you though right?

[Enochroot]

At no point did I say you were a bad cleric. What I actually said was that some Battle Clerics are arrogant, selfish and have a desperate need to assert some control over something in their lives for once. I guess that hit a little too close to home eh?

Oh btw maybe my Barb has had a few too many blows to the head but I don't ever remember being leader of that group (and even if I was my Chinese is a little rusty) so don't go blaming me for poor communication - we had people out of place on BOTH sides, we wasted two minutes, get over it.

You still can't help the prejudging can you? If a Barb can't play smart how did I keep myself up with just pots hmmm? Trust me I'm used to not getting heals in pugs, I don't need your cleric there nannying me.

Well we've given the good people of Stormreach enough entertainment for one day. Unlike you I have a RL to get on with. Before I go I just wanted to remind you it wasn't one p*ssed off Barb, it was a team of five other people you quit on - I guess that means nothing to you though right?

Because your original post said "sorry to all good clerics" - clearly implying you think I was a bad cleric. Control over my life? You have no idea who I am, feel free to throw out the traditional "mother's basement" **** line. It'd be about 8,000 miles from the truth.

I don't care WHO was in the group, a good leader will organize, and organize quickly.

I've played with smart barbs in quests - and they didn't use 100 pots to keep themselves alive, no matter what else was occurring in the quest. Your analogy is like saying "good clerics are the ones that complete quests using 1,000 heal scrolls". Whereas I would say that is the worst cleric in the world.

If you don't need my cleric nannying me, why did you worry about what the "selfish" cleric was doing at all, and why did you bother coming here to post it?

Yup, use RL as an excuse to back out of a discussion that you're clearly in the wrong. This forum will still be here all week, come back anytime. Cheers.

[GrayOldDruid]

Because they join groups without telling people they are battle clerics thereby leading people to believe they are primarily filling a healing function. That in turn, gimps a lot of parties that are not self sufficient.

I am going to have to disagree there. The party is Gimped because the Noobs are not self sufficient to begin with. They RELY on having a cleric to heal them. They don't have their own Potions of Cure Serious, Remove Curse, Remove Fear, Remove Disease....
The party is Gimped because they can't function on their own.

I often get annoyed at clerics healing me after a battle... I mean, What are you healing me for?? I got Pots! I even got wands on some characters. Unless I am in the middle of a big fight and I am about to die - don't waste your SP.

Then there are the uber-gimps who are "I am down like 10 hp, could you top me off?"

[Cold_Stele]

Reading ftw. I said 'sorry to all the good battle clerics' aimed at the ones who actually are team players. You know the ones who don't quit on a group of people because they're not getting their way.

As for your comments about leadership - what did YOU do?

Oh yeh, quit.

[sparty55]

I don't care what class you are as long as you are effective at what you claim you do. Either heal well or kill well or do both well.

[frugal_gourmet]

It amazes me how many people get all emo about an online game.

Speaking of which, I've never been a big fan of battle clerics. They used to beat me up as a child.

[minivanman]

Here's the thing. Every class in this game has it's place. Every class in this game has it's glory moments and quests it excels in. You learn these quests and utilize party members in a way that is most effective.

Now, if you're a player that has the mentality that everybody else is support to you, then you're a ******. This includes clerics, battle clerics, melee clerics, whatever the hell you want to call them.

That is the actual argument. The moniker "battle cleric" has been tainted with these idiots that run around saying things like, "bring them all to me", etc, etc. We all know these idiots, and they come in every form of every class.

I'll put some quotes out there that make me gnash my teeth every time I hear them.

"Just run them through my blade barrier"
"Just run them through my fire wall"
"Don't worry about buffing me, I've got all the buffs I need"
"I can solo that boss"
"Look at the kill count"
"I've got evasion" (For those that like to run through traps)
"You don't have evasion, just stay here"

Now there are smart ways to play, but a lot more dumb ways to play. When you feel inclined to tell everybody else how to play, and center the play around your character, you're nothing more than an elitist ******bag.

I'm happy that your battle cleric can solo a lot of adventures. In a group, you're less than optimal. A GROUP will, when played well be MUCH more efficient than one battle cleric. But the attitude of many, many battle clerics is that they can do it all, and everybody else is just there for support. That is where the problem lie.

Nobody is saying that a battle cleric isn't a good build. People are saying that a lot of battle clerics are ******s in a game that is based around team play.

As for those **** Neo Skullriders. I agree, they should all be dragged out and shot. They're pushy, arrogant, and elitist, and like to do things their way. It really upsets me as well, because I think that everybody should do things my way. Since I'm highly inflexible and feel that my way is the only right way to do things, and don't like it when somebody else tries to steal my thunder. I find myself in constant clash with the Neos.

In fact my entire guild feels the same way. We have way too many casual players that need guides through quests, and the Neos are always rude and condescending to these players. They never help anybody out, and never wait for the slower players.

/sarcasm

I can guarantee that you, Enochroot are part of the problem, and why battle clerics get a bad rap. Based on that conversation and knowing the person you're debating with, and pulling a ******baggery stunt like leaving a quest because you weren't getting your way.

[gHzSWB]

See that's the problem, people "know" too much. People take one look at the icon and just automatically assume healbot. If we could just choose some generic icons to represent a build rather then class all of these problems might be avoided.

Perhaps true - but if you are playing outside the box of people's understanding of the class then it is just common sense to let folks know when you join the party. Remember that this thread is not about BCs being bad on creation it is about BCs that don't let the group the join know they have no intention of using their ability for anyone but themselves, those are the BCs that create the poor opinion the OP talked about.

[Enochroot]

The problem I've found with Battle Clerics (and I'm sure there are exceptions to this) is that they just aren't team players.

A lot of them seem to have convinced themselves of their own superiority and that they can solo anything. The rest of the party seem like an annoying inconvenience. Great attitude for NWN, pretty cr*ppy one for an MMO.

I'm sure it must be difficult for good Battle Clerics as everyone only remebers the (countless) stories about the bad ones.

My latest story btw? Going into Tor with a Cleric who burns all of his manner on BB and tells the melees not to fight. I (quite politely actually) tell him he's talking nonsense and spend the rest of the quest chugging repair pots. The cleric continues to act like an a$$ because we've questioned his way of doing things and drops group on us before the dragons.

Coming to think of it, it's not just selfishness that I've experienced with them, it's also their belief that granting or withholding healing is a way of exerting power and control over other party members.

Avoid.

PS my apologies to the good clerics out there.

Reading ftw. I said 'sorry to all the good battle clerics' aimed at the ones who actually are team players. You know the ones who don't quit on a group of people because they're not getting their way.

As for your comments about leadership - what did YOU do?

Oh yeh, quit.

Well, actually, that's not what you said. So, your reading apparently is for the lose. Right, so what you're saying is "good clerics" are healbot clerics that follow you around. And I'm the one with the narrow mind?

My leadership? I led my side through 5 victorious battles easily, even after our caster was out of sp, and we only had 2 people. Then I had to leave the FINISHED quest (for that RL you referenced earlier). I finished even with your ****** attitude, 2 "noobs" and two players that didn't speak my language. And if you can't find a cleric to help you run the scale run to get blooded, it sounds like YOU have the problem, not me.

Had nothing to do with me getting my way - I was fine in the quest, I didn't use any resources at all.

[Chaos000]

The problem is there are a lot of **** POOR battle clerics thats forget there is 2 PARTS to the term battle cleric 1 part battle thats mean you are likely built to melee, 2nd part is still CLERIC which means you're still a capable healer....

Oh, I didn't forget. Just got tired of the mentality. I don't mind healing players that build their characters with the intent of making a healer's job easy. My twitch healing skills and micromanagement skills are good enough to carry the gimpiest of pugs through a quest by burning through an ungodly amount of resources that I keep on my person to keep that group alive. But that doesn't mean I will. Because I do mind having to healing players that are obvious a mana/resource-sinks and someone that doesn't mind so much is more than welcome to have that job.

So my choice is to heal players worth healing. Rez players obviously not worth healing. And always clarify my role as non-healing (will not use wands or scrolls) and make that very clear to the party leader before I even consider joining the party that I refuse to monitor people's health bars.

Not that I can help it, but he doesn't have to know that. Majority of the time, I'll heal better than the second cleric they picked up to make his life easier. But if the leader chooses to not roll with another person to "heal" ...then letting one or two people die and rezing them after the fight isn't that big of a deal.

A GOOD cleric brings more then one thing to the table all clerics should bring the ability to keep a group on their feet thats sorta the whole point of being a CLERIC!!! after that ever cleric should have a(mutiple) secondary aspect(s) they bring to a group that aspect can be one of mainy things, buffing heavy maybe to make stuff easier, though mass buffs etc most every cleric can do this as well, but moee complete buffing can still be done by someone that really focuses on it; OR offensive casting max emped BB's comet falls searing lights etc.; OR CC casting, GTR command comet fall sound burst; OR MELEE DPS ie battle cleric.

A good battle cleric is a great resorce to have in any group, a poor battle cleric is a ***** fighter, who might not even bother to self heal!! the problem is there are a LOT of the latter in pugs in ddo and that has runined the reputation of the term battle cleric.

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with the blanket assumption that all clerics should be responsible for keeping a group on their feet. It's a group effort and part of the teamplay we're accusing battleclerics for not promoting. Too many groups take wanton advantage of a cleric's resources and blue bar that less people overall are rolling up clerics. If people didn't feel so bad about how often it occurs, they wouldn't go out of their way to tip a cleric a fraction of what he spent in consumables to keep the group alive.

If the premise is... all players (no matter how bad they play) deserve enough heals to be kept alive during fights... then we can agree to disagree. Because not all players need constant attention and others cannot survive without it.

A good player is a great resource, a poor one a liability. New players are exempt from this until they make the decision to continue playing poorly after learning the game.

[Cold_Stele]

Well, actually, that's not what you said. So, your reading apparently is for the lose. Right, so what you're saying is "good clerics" are healbot clerics that follow you around. And I'm the one with the narrow mind?

Try reading it all.. very...slowly....

I say I don't like battle clerics... I say why (they aren't team players)... I then apologise to any (battle) clerics who are good players (team players) who I've unfairly lumped in with the bad.

See? not so hard was it?

My leadership? I led my side through 5 victorious battles easily, even after our caster was out of sp, and we only had 2 people.

No you had 3 people and lost one. The Sorc you didn't lose was from a hardcore Chinese guild - perhaps your leadership was through multilingual telepathy as you said and typed f*** all.

Oh, and a few big skellies on normal doesn't exactly qualify as a 'victorious battle'. I'd called it a few button presses tbh.

Had nothing to do with me getting my way - I was fine in the quest, I didn't use any resources at all.

I never said you can't cleric, you're a good player. It's your personality that sucks a$$.

1. You entered before the group filled to BB the mobs. This was at 4-6am EST when the group could have taken a while to fill. We were all level 14 or so and late comers could have taken a xp hit.

2. You had a condescending attitude well before the end fight, which culminated in you giving orders that half the party were only fit to stand around with their thumbs up their a$$. You then went ripsh*t when I disagreed.

3. After this two minute glitch you're making such a song and dance about (zomg we had to fight a few more mobs on normal!!!) you abandoned your team.

As for me not getting healed, again it's you that's creating all the drama over that. I pugged and chugged all through the bonus xp weekend. No one wants to heal a WF no matter how much healing amplification they have - you're far from unique in that.

I can guarantee that you, Enochroot are part of the problem, and why battle clerics get a bad rap. Based on that conversation and knowing the person you're debating with, and pulling a ******baggery stunt like leaving a quest because you weren't getting your way.

Thanks for the words of support bro.