Why do people hate battle clerics?

[Suzaku]

So I put on my comments I'm a battle cleric but I rarely get invites to groups, and when I don't have a comment up I get invites. When I'm in a group no one says anything about me melee, although when I ask how is my battle cleric people respond as if they never knew I was a battle cleric (is that good or bad? ^^').

[Mayen]

Battle cleric is sort of a bad term in the community. More often then not self proclaimed battle clerics suck at anything but swinging wildly and self healing while ignoring the rest of the group. In this case they are worth about as much as spit imo. It doesnt sound to me like you are a battle cleric though, it sounds like you are a CLERIC. A cleric is a person that can heal, melee, rain down the fires of the gods, and pull the barbs arse out of the fire. So Id just continue what your doing but get rid of the misleading comment about your build.

[Dexxaan]

Why?

Because they dont or can't play one.

[arianya]

ok every BATTLECLERIC that i have ran with has been a SELFISH, INCONSIDERATE, IGNORANT, L33tSP3AKING n00b.
* ok not all of them did the l33t sp3ak*

but anyway, all they wanted to do was pretend they were barbars, and then hog all the healing for themselves, ignoring everyone else. now i am all for a cleric fighting when neccessary. i do my best but lets face it, my cleric is not built for fighting. i am a HEALER.

if ya wanna fight, BUILD A FIGHTER.
if ya wanna heal, BUILD A CLERIC.

end of story.

thank you for letting me rant.

BTW, this is my only major pet peeve.

unless you constantly bug me for healing. then i will let you die and feed you to the nearest batch of zombies.
and dont get mad at me for not healing you the INSTANT you get hurt, especially, if we are in a GROUP and others are hurt more than your one hp of damage. i work like the ER, the worse you are hurt, the faster you get taken care of.

ok now i am going to stop ranting before i start repeating myself. lol

[Lithic]

A big part of battlecleric-hate is that BC's arent as willing to waste resources or sp on manasponges, and won't babysit the 3 AC barb who aggroes 90% of a quest's monsters so he can pad his kill count. The haters tend to BE the 3 AC barbs with killcount envy. Healbots on the other hand tend to sit back and keep the red bars full until they run out, and even then they often switch to scrolls.

Bah I almost fell asleep just TYPING how a typical healbot plays.

[Impaqt]

Because too many "Battle Clerics" arent actually battle clerics at all. Most self Proclaimed "Battle Clerics" use the term for an excuse to be a terrible cleric.

Cleric by definition ARE melee capable. They have a Good BAB and 1:1 with Divine Power. They get Heavy armor and Sheild, and no Spell Failure.... The class is designed to be in battle AND heal.

If you dont want to do anything to actually help the party there really istn a good reason to play a cleric at all... You can heal yoruself quite well on a multitued of builds and not carry the stigma of a terrible cleric.

[QuantumFX]

Battle clerics are hated because of craptacular games like Diablo, EQ, WoW and DAoC. Thanks to the idiotic design of those games the people who have never played D&D didn’t understand one simple thing about the class. A cleric is a warrior first, healer second.

[Mhykke]

I was just talking with someone about battle clerics this weekend.

In my opinion, playing a battle cleric is one of the hardest styles of play in the game, on any class. Not only do you have to be proficient either in melee or offensive casting, but your attention also is split by helping keep party members alive.

You play another class and you're basically worried about keeping yourself alive (and a lot of people don't even do this, they just rely on the cleric.) You play a battle cleric, and you're either playing the role of a caster or a melee, as well as playing a healer at the same time. A lot of people are just plain bad at doing this. A lot of clerics can't focus on 2 things at the same time. They jump into the middle of mobs and either forget about their party members, or they forget about the mobs (and themselves) in order to throw a couple of heals around, and die in the process.

They're hated b/c it's a difficult way to play. Probably need a lot of experience to be comfortable playing this role. A lot of people just play it poorly, and so a lot of people are wary about the term. If you're lucky to group with some good ones, then the term doesn't carry the stigma that it does for most others.

[hcarr]

Mainly because of people who have gone before you. I have run with some good melee battleclerics and some Infamously bad one's. I am sure many have stories of both its just that the infamously bad stick longer. Just like any other class has bad tales about it. My infamously bad one I was the other cleric and spent more mana shutting the battlecleric up because he was complaining he needed healing because he was madstoned or didnt have the spell. I need this removed and that removed "can I have a lesser restore". granted this person I have run with while he was on other char classes. he is always the same about all of this and why should he be different on a cleric. So everytime I hear battlecleric this is all I think of even though its been over a year ago. Is this fair no. but its like anything you never know what you will get. Plus many may be squeemish about increasing the chance of loosing thier only character in the party that can lay down the most effective healing by having them in melee. Leads to nightmare senarios of party wipes if it happens at inopportune time. Just drop the title of battlecleric. It has a bad stigma in most cases. Most people know that clerics can melee/cast better than any other class with the right player. Just be the best cleric you can be and you will be in demand. The bad stories stick a long time try to avoid them.

[jmonty]

Cleric by definition ARE melee capable. They have a Good BAB and 1:1 with Divine Power. They get Heavy armor and Sheild, and no Spell Failure.... The class is designed to be in battle AND heal.

yep.

plus pure class clerics are generally more effective overall--at healing and casting anyways.

[QuintonReece]

I can only speak for my own experiences but here's why I don't like MOST of them....

Because they join groups without telling people they are battle clerics thereby leading people to believe they are primarily filling a healing function. That in turn, gimps a lot of parties that are not self sufficient.

NOW,..... If a battle cleric were to advise the group up front.... no problem. As long as they are a competent addition to the party I got no issues. That would allow the party, if needed, to get a full time healer or at least a secondary healing type like a bard.

That is the only problem I have "personally" had with battle clerics. (other than those that just dont know how to play them and are incompetent.... but that goes for any class)

My 2 cents.

[turkeymoon]

For the same reason people don't like a repeater build fighter, a songless bard, or a melee caster. Bottom line is what level of what you bring to a party and more so what quest.

Fill in the blanks for end game content.

[Aranticus]

ok every BATTLECLERIC that i have ran with has been a SELFISH, INCONSIDERATE, IGNORANT, L33tSP3AKING n00b.
* ok not all of them did the l33t sp3ak*

but anyway, all they wanted to do was pretend they were barbars, and then hog all the healing for themselves, ignoring everyone else. now i am all for a cleric fighting when neccessary. i do my best but lets face it, my cleric is not built for fighting. i am a HEALER.

if ya wanna fight, BUILD A FIGHTER.
if ya wanna heal, BUILD A CLERIC.

end of story.

thank you for letting me rant.

BTW, this is my only major pet peeve.

unless you constantly bug me for healing. then i will let you die and feed you to the nearest batch of zombies.
and dont get mad at me for not healing you the INSTANT you get hurt, especially, if we are in a GROUP and others are hurt more than your one hp of damage. i work like the ER, the worse you are hurt, the faster you get taken care of.

ok now i am going to stop ranting before i start repeating myself. lol

wrong. a cleric dun just heal

[Aranticus]

A big part of battlecleric-hate is that BC's arent as willing to waste resources or sp on manasponges, and won't babysit the 3 AC barb who aggroes 90% of a quest's monsters so he can pad his kill count. The haters tend to BE the 3 AC barbs with killcount envy. Healbots on the other hand tend to sit back and keep the red bars full until they run out, and even then they often switch to scrolls.

Bah I almost fell asleep just TYPING how a typical healbot plays.

i'm play an offensive cleric and i fully adopt what you just stated. manasponges, no point keeping up, let them learn a thing or 2 about agro management and team play. my fav quest in the aspect is devil where my bb specc cleric will spend less resources using blade barriers than healing

[Aranticus]

OP, i dun hate battleclerics, will i admit one? it depends. if an unknown player, prolly not as most battleclerics i seen so far only use their sp for self buffing not even spending any on healing themselves much less the party. a good battlecleric can fight AND heal. knowing when to crack a few skulls and when to pull out is very important. but many battlecleric cannot make that distinction

[cypan41]

The main problem I see is that people want to make a cleric be a healer. What I mean is, it's a game with many ways to play it. If a battlecleric is made to be a fighter, so what? He's a fighter who can heal himself, buff himself, and even add spell casting dps.

Seriously, you're a healing cleric. Which would you like in your group. A fighter who takes damage needs buffs, and soaks up a lot of sps, or one who fights and can handle his own buffs and heals? It's a no brainer.

I think the main problem is that most people see the cleric Icon and expect them to play them the way they want them played.

I've got a spellsword character, shows up as a cleric with her 11 cleric lvls. She's got a 60 ac, improved dual wield, body puct rapiers, casts all her own buffs, blur, shield, stoneskin included. And can toss out the occasional heal to save a party member, as well as cast a max, empowered, quickened, extended blade barrier. I'm sorry, I don't see what there is to complain about.

People play in different ways. I think the thing people hate, is they want others to play cookie cutter builds.

On the other hand, joining a party where you are the only cleric without any warning is bad form.

[MrCow]

I find it interesting that when I'm on a cleric who would pretty much be modeled as a "battle cleric" around a bunch of fleshlings the fleshlings sometimes get skiddish and worried. However, when I am on my arcane who would best be described as a "battle arcane" in a group of mostly Warforged I never hear a complaint or worry.

It is all a perceptual clash for what it means to be a "cleric" between people.

[sirgog]

i'm play an offensive cleric and i fully adopt what you just stated. manasponges, no point keeping up, let them learn a thing or 2 about agro management and team play. my fav quest in the aspect is devil where my bb specc cleric will spend less resources using blade barriers than healing

So true.

That quest is kinda hard to soloheal on Hard without spending resources in a weak group - easier to solo the entire quest with BB and, in three or four spots, Con damage weapons.

Last fight is definitely easier that way. Pull them all at once into a whirling blender, and let the party do anything they want except take aggro. Heal yourself, and if you want to test your reflexes, try to prevent bad melees from dying.

[sirgog]

ok every BATTLECLERIC that i have ran with has been a SELFISH, INCONSIDERATE, IGNORANT, L33tSP3AKING n00b.
* ok not all of them did the l33t sp3ak*

but anyway, all they wanted to do was pretend they were barbars, and then hog all the healing for themselves, ignoring everyone else. now i am all for a cleric fighting when neccessary. i do my best but lets face it, my cleric is not built for fighting. i am a HEALER.

if ya wanna fight, BUILD A FIGHTER.
if ya wanna heal, BUILD A CLERIC.

end of story.

thank you for letting me rant.

BTW, this is my only major pet peeve.

unless you constantly bug me for healing. then i will let you die and feed you to the nearest batch of zombies.
and dont get mad at me for not healing you the INSTANT you get hurt, especially, if we are in a GROUP and others are hurt more than your one hp of damage. i work like the ER, the worse you are hurt, the faster you get taken care of.

ok now i am going to stop ranting before i start repeating myself. lol

Why build a fighter when a melee-specced Cleric can deal 90% as much melee damage as a fighter, survive ten to twenty times as long (longer still if you use resources), and also crowd control and nuke (albeit not as well as a traditional cleric)? And that's not mentioning at all that the battlecleric will be healing the party as a bonus, or if required is competent as a sole healer. (That's a cleric build that maximizes Str at the expense of some Wisdom, clerics that maximize Wisdom, invest in Str and combat feats and dabble in melee are great builds too but not what I'm talking about here)

Battleclerics tend to be disliked up to level 10 or so, when it isn't obvious which clerics they are (most BC builds go ten Clr levels, then one Ftr, then five more Clr), when the BC's don't yet have the skill in both fighting and healing to do both on one character (most learn this by about level 12 or 13), when the lesser SP they tend to have hurts, and when most quests are run in such a zerg fashion that a healbot is more useful to the party than another melee for most runs.

Regardless, at endgame, if a group is looking for a melee and a healer, they will almost always be far better served by two battleclerics. There's exceptions (e.g. Enter the Kobold I'd rather an evasion melee and a Wis-based cleric, pref with evasion), but they aren't common. And for unknown content (assuming it is expected to be tough enough to warrant doing this), my idea of an 'optimal' party is to get 3 battleclerics, one warchanter, one arcane, and then for the 6th, a 4th BC if you have rogue skills covered already (e.g. if the arcane is a Wiz14/Rog2), or else a melee with great Rog skills. No place for fighters or healbots in such a party at all.

[SanguineDarkness]

Battle cleric like a cleric/fighter or an offensive cleric? (eventually 14cleric/2fighter?) (2 fighter for 2 more feats)
It's difficult to battle mobs and heal at the same time, but as part fighter, you have increased AC, proficiencies, health and extra feats too.
I've made a Drow cleric who engages in combat but he is pure cleric, he soundbursts/holds/commands down enemies for mobs and c'mon with my 18str and heavy mace and then when someone is dying. I can heal them in mobs thanks to high concentration and AC (If your cleric/fighter you can use tower shield for even more AC and fight with stronger weaps from proficiencies.) But sit some battles out to heal and keep your eyes on low AC/hp chars, dont worry too much bout kill count it can mess you up. I have a friend who is a cleric/fighter and he is good at soloing and surviving.
I believe the cleric is both a warrior and a healer who can meele and if people don't believe that then, look at your party's cleric in PnP.