Why do people hate battle clerics?

[Suzaku]

So I put on my comments I'm a battle cleric but I rarely get invites to groups, and when I don't have a comment up I get invites. When I'm in a group no one says anything about me melee, although when I ask how is my battle cleric people respond as if they never knew I was a battle cleric (is that good or bad? ^^').

[Mayen]

Battle cleric is sort of a bad term in the community. More often then not self proclaimed battle clerics suck at anything but swinging wildly and self healing while ignoring the rest of the group. In this case they are worth about as much as spit imo. It doesnt sound to me like you are a battle cleric though, it sounds like you are a CLERIC. A cleric is a person that can heal, melee, rain down the fires of the gods, and pull the barbs arse out of the fire. So Id just continue what your doing but get rid of the misleading comment about your build.

[Dexxaan]

Why?

Because they dont or can't play one.

[arianya]

ok every BATTLECLERIC that i have ran with has been a SELFISH, INCONSIDERATE, IGNORANT, L33tSP3AKING n00b.
* ok not all of them did the l33t sp3ak*

but anyway, all they wanted to do was pretend they were barbars, and then hog all the healing for themselves, ignoring everyone else. now i am all for a cleric fighting when neccessary. i do my best but lets face it, my cleric is not built for fighting. i am a HEALER.

if ya wanna fight, BUILD A FIGHTER.
if ya wanna heal, BUILD A CLERIC.

end of story.

thank you for letting me rant.

BTW, this is my only major pet peeve.

unless you constantly bug me for healing. then i will let you die and feed you to the nearest batch of zombies.
and dont get mad at me for not healing you the INSTANT you get hurt, especially, if we are in a GROUP and others are hurt more than your one hp of damage. i work like the ER, the worse you are hurt, the faster you get taken care of.

ok now i am going to stop ranting before i start repeating myself. lol

[Aranticus]

ok every BATTLECLERIC that i have ran with has been a SELFISH, INCONSIDERATE, IGNORANT, L33tSP3AKING n00b.
* ok not all of them did the l33t sp3ak*

but anyway, all they wanted to do was pretend they were barbars, and then hog all the healing for themselves, ignoring everyone else. now i am all for a cleric fighting when neccessary. i do my best but lets face it, my cleric is not built for fighting. i am a HEALER.

if ya wanna fight, BUILD A FIGHTER.
if ya wanna heal, BUILD A CLERIC.

end of story.

thank you for letting me rant.

BTW, this is my only major pet peeve.

unless you constantly bug me for healing. then i will let you die and feed you to the nearest batch of zombies.
and dont get mad at me for not healing you the INSTANT you get hurt, especially, if we are in a GROUP and others are hurt more than your one hp of damage. i work like the ER, the worse you are hurt, the faster you get taken care of.

ok now i am going to stop ranting before i start repeating myself. lol

wrong. a cleric dun just heal

[sirgog]

ok every BATTLECLERIC that i have ran with has been a SELFISH, INCONSIDERATE, IGNORANT, L33tSP3AKING n00b.
* ok not all of them did the l33t sp3ak*

but anyway, all they wanted to do was pretend they were barbars, and then hog all the healing for themselves, ignoring everyone else. now i am all for a cleric fighting when neccessary. i do my best but lets face it, my cleric is not built for fighting. i am a HEALER.

if ya wanna fight, BUILD A FIGHTER.
if ya wanna heal, BUILD A CLERIC.

end of story.

thank you for letting me rant.

BTW, this is my only major pet peeve.

unless you constantly bug me for healing. then i will let you die and feed you to the nearest batch of zombies.
and dont get mad at me for not healing you the INSTANT you get hurt, especially, if we are in a GROUP and others are hurt more than your one hp of damage. i work like the ER, the worse you are hurt, the faster you get taken care of.

ok now i am going to stop ranting before i start repeating myself. lol

Why build a fighter when a melee-specced Cleric can deal 90% as much melee damage as a fighter, survive ten to twenty times as long (longer still if you use resources), and also crowd control and nuke (albeit not as well as a traditional cleric)? And that's not mentioning at all that the battlecleric will be healing the party as a bonus, or if required is competent as a sole healer. (That's a cleric build that maximizes Str at the expense of some Wisdom, clerics that maximize Wisdom, invest in Str and combat feats and dabble in melee are great builds too but not what I'm talking about here)

Battleclerics tend to be disliked up to level 10 or so, when it isn't obvious which clerics they are (most BC builds go ten Clr levels, then one Ftr, then five more Clr), when the BC's don't yet have the skill in both fighting and healing to do both on one character (most learn this by about level 12 or 13), when the lesser SP they tend to have hurts, and when most quests are run in such a zerg fashion that a healbot is more useful to the party than another melee for most runs.

Regardless, at endgame, if a group is looking for a melee and a healer, they will almost always be far better served by two battleclerics. There's exceptions (e.g. Enter the Kobold I'd rather an evasion melee and a Wis-based cleric, pref with evasion), but they aren't common. And for unknown content (assuming it is expected to be tough enough to warrant doing this), my idea of an 'optimal' party is to get 3 battleclerics, one warchanter, one arcane, and then for the 6th, a 4th BC if you have rogue skills covered already (e.g. if the arcane is a Wiz14/Rog2), or else a melee with great Rog skills. No place for fighters or healbots in such a party at all.

[seldarin]

And that's not mentioning at all that the battlecleric will be healing the party as a bonus, or if required is competent as a sole healer.

Sorry mate, this is one point i disagree with. 90 percent of alleged BCs dont heal themselves let alone the rest of the party, and that is even when they are solo cleric. Mind you, there are a number of straight clerics out there that seem to struggle with this basic functionality too. I dont expect clerics to just heal, i play one myself, but i do expect them to throw a heal around when needed, thats part of what having all those cure and heal spells is all about. If they werent expected to heal, they wouldnt be given the capacity to do so.

[Deadz]

if ya wanna fight, BUILD A FIGHTER.
if ya wanna heal, BUILD A CLERIC.

See that's carp (yes carp) cra.. carp

A Cleric can do both of these well.. i consider myself a "battle" cleric. because i have a high str and wis.. i use lots of buffs to increase my capability to fight w/ my longsword..

But i also know in a group setting when it's tough, my job is to Heal.. heal heal.. and i think i do it pretty well.. clerics are the can do it all class in my opinion.. it's just you should be capable of doing your job when it's time.. if i'm the only cleric, i know my primary responsibility is to keep the group alive..

[Impaqt]

See that's carp (yes carp) cra.. carp

A Cleric can do both of these well.. i consider myself a "battle" cleric. because i have a high str and wis.. i use lots of buffs to increase my capability to fight w/ my longsword..

But i also know in a group setting when it's tough, my job is to Heal.. heal heal.. and i think i do it pretty well.. clerics are the can do it all class in my opinion.. it's just you should be capable of doing your job when it's time.. if i'm the only cleric, i know my primary responsibility is to keep the group alive..

yes.. they Can Fight and heal... The problem isnt the class in most cases.. Its the PLAYER.. Many players simply dont have the Micromanagement abilitys or the twitch skills to effectively do both. Maybe people THINK they do, but they fail misrebly in tough situations. Other realize they cant do both and thus slap the self Proclaimed "BATTLE CLERIC" label on themselves as an excuse to suck.

[Emili]

See that's carp (yes carp) cra.. carp

A Cleric can do both of these well.. i consider myself a "battle" cleric. because i have a high str and wis.. i use lots of buffs to increase my capability to fight w/ my longsword..

But i also know in a group setting when it's tough, my job is to Heal.. heal heal.. and i think i do it pretty well.. clerics are the can do it all class in my opinion.. it's just you should be capable of doing your job when it's time.. if i'm the only cleric, i know my primary responsibility is to keep the group alive..

... and while this may be true, there are a great many players who do not fill both roles well ... either thru skill, playstyle or build. There is no denying either that a fighter, barb, ranger or Pally is easily built into a better functional melee and that a cleric is easy to build into a high focus'd healer. Yes the cleric can do both but there is little doubt that adding focus on a melee role pulls a tad from the healing capability - that is a fact. This is also a contributing factor possibly why some even decent players do not play battle-clerics very well... it is a hard class to play for outstanding results ... maybe good results but not optimal. Thus... many great B/C players suffer the stigma from those who play one badly... I know many a good if not great B/C such as Fawna (from Reidra now Khyber) and of course players like this have no problems getting groups... but if you're not well known and on a B/C well things can get a tad disappointing or leary at times.

[Zenako]

In a good group, using tactics and appropriate spells and weapons, healing is almost an afterthought. End of the battle gather everyone around for one mass heal and move on. FtS, Greater Command, Disco Balls, Holds, etc all make combat a simpke and painless exercise. Banish those who live on other planes. Begone foul vermin of the netherworlds.

In groups like that, playing a Healbot would be a snore. Play a CLERIC, and you can help control the battlefield. Those weak willed butes with 100+ point damage attacks, do squat when sitting on their butts. Those enemy casters quake when they get shaken by loud noises *(soundburst).

I have a number of clerics. My main capped one is a CLERIC. "Only" 30 Wis, but also hits mid twenties STR. Wields a nice selection of power weapons. Often employ debuffing ones in melee to avoid taking aggro. Cursespewing of Destruction is a nice one, or a Para of shattermantle works nice too. Am I a AC tank, no far from it, but when I fling up the Madsone Shield I have enough AC to matter for most mobs.

The problem with some self proclaimed Battle Clerics is they self define themselves into filling a very limited role. It is like a melee who chooses to not carry ANY ranged weapon or attack form, self imposed limitations which gimp the overall character. OR an arcane caster who only carries one type of spell and ignores whole schools of effects. It would also be like a Trap Monkey who sucked at everything else, a rogue can be so much more. Versatile effective characters who do what is needed to be done will be welcomed in groups. those who are not, will find the welcomes fewer and farther between.

[Voalkrynn2]

ok every BATTLECLERIC that i have ran with has been a SELFISH, INCONSIDERATE, IGNORANT, L33tSP3AKING n00b.
* ok not all of them did the l33t sp3ak*

but anyway, all they wanted to do was pretend they were barbars, and then hog all the healing for themselves, ignoring everyone else. now i am all for a cleric fighting when neccessary. i do my best but lets face it, my cleric is not built for fighting. i am a HEALER.

if ya wanna fight, BUILD A FIGHTER.
if ya wanna heal, BUILD A CLERIC.

end of story.

thank you for letting me rant.

BTW, this is my only major pet peeve.

unless you constantly bug me for healing. then i will let you die and feed you to the nearest batch of zombies.
and dont get mad at me for not healing you the INSTANT you get hurt, especially, if we are in a GROUP and others are hurt more than your one hp of damage. i work like the ER, the worse you are hurt, the faster you get taken care of.

ok now i am going to stop ranting before i start repeating myself. lol

If it prevents a party wipe then I will let others die to keep one person up and killing. Afterwards I will raise the others. Triage isn't just for disasters.

[barecm]

Every good cleric I have run with can produce offensively as well as maintain the group's health. If they can only do one of the two, they are not taking advantage of the class.

[Luthen]

ok every BATTLECLERIC that i have ran with has been a SELFISH, INCONSIDERATE, IGNORANT, L33tSP3AKING n00b.
* ok not all of them did the l33t sp3ak*

but anyway, all they wanted to do was pretend they were barbars, and then hog all the healing for themselves, ignoring everyone else. now i am all for a cleric fighting when neccessary. i do my best but lets face it, my cleric is not built for fighting. i am a HEALER.

if ya wanna fight, BUILD A FIGHTER.
if ya wanna heal, BUILD A CLERIC.

end of story.

thank you for letting me rant.

BTW, this is my only major pet peeve.

unless you constantly bug me for healing. then i will let you die and feed you to the nearest batch of zombies.
and dont get mad at me for not healing you the INSTANT you get hurt, especially, if we are in a GROUP and others are hurt more than your one hp of damage. i work like the ER, the worse you are hurt, the faster you get taken care of.

ok now i am going to stop ranting before i start repeating myself. lol

You had me until you threw out that statement. That's just ignorant thinking. Not dumb just not well informed. Anyone who has a cleric and says "Im a Battle Cleric" or "Im a Heal-bot cleric" is simply making one statement. What they are saying is actually... "Im not experienced with clericing enough to do both so Im just gonna do one".

I have been playing since BETA and I have had the same cleric since Headstart. I have built 3 other clerics since then. Clerics are, by design, very versatile. If a player cannot learn to maximize their own effectiveness as a cleric and fill those roles then it's a matter of needing to be more experienced and break out of their comfort zone. A narrow purpose cleric that only does one or the other is an under utilized build.

[Lithic]

A big part of battlecleric-hate is that BC's arent as willing to waste resources or sp on manasponges, and won't babysit the 3 AC barb who aggroes 90% of a quest's monsters so he can pad his kill count. The haters tend to BE the 3 AC barbs with killcount envy. Healbots on the other hand tend to sit back and keep the red bars full until they run out, and even then they often switch to scrolls.

Bah I almost fell asleep just TYPING how a typical healbot plays.

[Aranticus]

A big part of battlecleric-hate is that BC's arent as willing to waste resources or sp on manasponges, and won't babysit the 3 AC barb who aggroes 90% of a quest's monsters so he can pad his kill count. The haters tend to BE the 3 AC barbs with killcount envy. Healbots on the other hand tend to sit back and keep the red bars full until they run out, and even then they often switch to scrolls.

Bah I almost fell asleep just TYPING how a typical healbot plays.

i'm play an offensive cleric and i fully adopt what you just stated. manasponges, no point keeping up, let them learn a thing or 2 about agro management and team play. my fav quest in the aspect is devil where my bb specc cleric will spend less resources using blade barriers than healing

[Aranticus]

OP, i dun hate battleclerics, will i admit one? it depends. if an unknown player, prolly not as most battleclerics i seen so far only use their sp for self buffing not even spending any on healing themselves much less the party. a good battlecleric can fight AND heal. knowing when to crack a few skulls and when to pull out is very important. but many battlecleric cannot make that distinction

[sirgog]

i'm play an offensive cleric and i fully adopt what you just stated. manasponges, no point keeping up, let them learn a thing or 2 about agro management and team play. my fav quest in the aspect is devil where my bb specc cleric will spend less resources using blade barriers than healing

So true.

That quest is kinda hard to soloheal on Hard without spending resources in a weak group - easier to solo the entire quest with BB and, in three or four spots, Con damage weapons.

Last fight is definitely easier that way. Pull them all at once into a whirling blender, and let the party do anything they want except take aggro. Heal yourself, and if you want to test your reflexes, try to prevent bad melees from dying.

[Impaqt]

Because too many "Battle Clerics" arent actually battle clerics at all. Most self Proclaimed "Battle Clerics" use the term for an excuse to be a terrible cleric.

Cleric by definition ARE melee capable. They have a Good BAB and 1:1 with Divine Power. They get Heavy armor and Sheild, and no Spell Failure.... The class is designed to be in battle AND heal.

If you dont want to do anything to actually help the party there really istn a good reason to play a cleric at all... You can heal yoruself quite well on a multitued of builds and not carry the stigma of a terrible cleric.

[jmonty]

Cleric by definition ARE melee capable. They have a Good BAB and 1:1 with Divine Power. They get Heavy armor and Sheild, and no Spell Failure.... The class is designed to be in battle AND heal.

yep.

plus pure class clerics are generally more effective overall--at healing and casting anyways.