Torthur Hareft; str based pure ranger

[Yargore]

Just another example that even more clearly shows that he does not understand that the building prerequisittes are pure, dwarven, str based, tempest ranger.

I very clearly state that in my opening paragraph. I state that everything I say comes from the point of view of a dwarven, strength based, pure class ranger. Here is the qoute 'I am writing this guide from the point of the view of a dwarven, tempest, strength based pure class ranger. The character will stay pure only ever taking ranger levels.'

This person is taking my words out of context again, this is just like the AC thing, which he prompty dropped once the AC breakdown showed that my build could get up to 71ac. Yes I did want to build the most powerful character that I could with the given building prerequisittes of Pure Class, dwarven, tempest ranger.

I never said that my build was better than a monk/rogue splashed human, I never even compared them, that was you. In fact I said comparing MC to non-MC is like comparing apples to oranges.

Sigh... You are lying to defend your build.
You clearly as day state that you went dwarf and pure because you wanted to have a character that was as powerful as possible. Your opening paragraph only summaries the build.

Let me quote once again:

First lets talk about race. I chose dwarf for a few reasons, the most appealing part, in my opinion, is getting the dwarven war axe feat for free. I wanted my ranger to use dwarven war axes because they are arguably the top dps weapon in game, and pure rangers are low on feats so getting it for free is huge. Dwarves get huge bonuses to saves, +5 total, (+2 from 1 feat called spell saves bonus) and (+3 from enhancements called dwarven spell defense). Also, not so important anymore because all races have some form of racial toughness, but dwarves can go all the way getting a +40 total to hit points from enhancements called dwarven racial toughness. Another solid reason is dwarves get +4 balance from a racial feat, which I viewed as helpful because it stacks, and besides umd, balance is one of the best skills in game, if your on your back you cant do anything. They get giant evasion (racial feat) which gives a +4 bonus to ac against all giants. Being a dwarf will also give +2 to-hit with axes if you get both ranks of dwarven axe attack. You can also get dwarven axe damage, I only went 1 rank into it. You can also get +2 to constitution from 2 ranks of dwarven constitution, and if you want to get the fourth rank of dwarven racial toughness, you need both ranks of dwarven constitution. I took both ranks to open up the last dwarven toughness. That about sums up the benefit of being a dwarf.

My reasons for staying pure; I did not want to multi-class for a few reasons(and I assure you, liking or disliking the MC system did not play a part in my decisions what so ever. My decisions were entirely based on creating the most powerful character that I could)

Could it be any clearer? You did not have dwarf and pure as a pre req when you decided to make the toon, you went with the most powerful race and class split you knew. Perhaps it was the most powerful way to go at the time, but it isn't now. Stop lying and just admit that you are wrong.
You messed up and I busted you, no big deal, you're only making it look worse if you keep lying now.
You are making the prereqs up now to defend your build, how else could tempest be in them if you rolled the toon when the cap was 10?^^

Yes, the AC could be 71, but it isn't because you have made bad decisions with your items etc.

Comparing multiclasses to pures are not as comparing apples to oranges. Taking a monk level is just as natural a taking a ranger level. There is nothing magically special with pure builds that makes up for the fact that they often lack in power comapred to multiclasses.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Name: XXXXXX
Class: Ranger 16
Race: Dwarf
Allignment: Neutral

Base Stats:
Str 17
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 11
Wis 8
Cha 6

Ending Stats:
Str 32 (17 base + 6 item + 3 tome + 4 levels +2 Rams might)
Dex 26 (16 base + 3 tome + 6 item + 1 enhancements)
Con 24 (16 base + 2 tome + 6 item)
Int 13 (11 base + 2 tome)
Wis 16 (8 base + 6 item + 2 tome)
Cha 14 (6 base + 6 (UMD) +2 tome)

+2 Int tome as soon as possible, for skills points and CE.

Obviously not all of the tomes will be needed, they are just there so the viewer knows what will be there in the end.

Enhancements at level 16
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger skill boost II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
Enhancement: Dwarven armor master I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger energy of the wilds I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion IV
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I

Final AC Breakdown:
10 Base
8 dex
8 DT Leather
2 chaosgarde
5 deflection
1 Dodge
3 Chattering Ring
4 insight
1 Ritual
2 tempest
3 Favored
(5 CE)
----------------
47 (52) - unbuffed
----------------
5 barkskin
1 haste
4 shield wand
----------------
57(62) - self buffed
----------------
5 aura
4 bard song
----------------
66 (71) with party buffs

Saves Unbuffed at level 16
Fortitude: 27(28) (10 Levels +5 res +7 con +1 save ritual +4 vs spells +1 vs favored)
Reflex: 29(30) (10 Levels +5 res +8 dex +1 save ritual +4 vs spells +1 vs favored)
Will: 18(19) (5 Levels +5 res +3 wisdom +1 save ritual +4 vs spells +1 vs favored)

Saves Self Buffed at level 16
Fortitude: 31(32) (27 + 4 GH)
Reflex: 34(35) (29 + 4 GH + 1 haste)
Will: 22(23) (18 + 4 GH)

Hit Points at level 16
128 Ranger levels
20 Heroic Durability
112 Con
30 GFL
10 Favor
35 Shroud item
18 Minos
20 enhancements
---------------------
373

Feats:
1.Dodge
3.Mobility
6.Spring attack
9.Power attack
12.Improved critical Slashing (CE after mineral II)
15.Maximize / empower healing

FE:
Evil outsiders
Constructs
Elementals
Undead

The most commonly faced raid boss(evil outsiders) combined 3 uncrittable monster types.

UMD in UMD mode
9 ranks
6 shroud item
3 charisma
5 seven fingered gloves
4 gh
2 head
3 skill boost
--------------
31

Skills
Max concentration, balance, jump, umd and tumble, spot and some other skill that one can justify.

Items
Weapon: Mineral II DA, Insight
Offhand: Mineral II DA, blast
Head: Minos
Goggles: Tharnes
Armor: Dragontouched leather armor with +5 res, Healing Amplification 20% and Destruction
Bracers: Chaosgarde
Gloves: 10 hp, +6 wisdom, +5 cha skills, 150 sp, conc opp.
Ring: chattering ring
Ring: Tumbleweed
Boots: Free to use for any boosts like dragon, fire greaves, etc.
Belt: +6 str +gfl. Belt of brute str.
Cloak: 35 hp, +5 prot, heavy fort, wizardy VI, +1 cha skills
Necklace: +6 con
Trinket: Bloodstone

One can take the mineral II cloak to boots and use a blur cloak if one really loves gimping ones character.

Differences
+20% more healing amp = better selfhealing Great bonus to the already great selfhealing.
+8 more ac with combat expertise 3 more with PA vs Torthur in CE. Makes all the difference in the world
+31% more dps (+4 str, +1 DA enhancement +5 pa +3 FE dmg, bloodstone, dual DA, better weapons, ) Makes all the difference in the world
+Free boots slot for anything one can need.
+1 more conc opp Pretty good.
+1 ref save
+2 will save Makes quite a difference as the will save isn't that great.


-20% perma blur (You can wand it easily anyways)
-10 less hp.
-22 sr
-perma disease immunity
-Lesser good guard (Nothing worth mentioning)
-3 UMD (The difference is nought without boost, then it's mere 1)
-5perma dr (Stoneskin for 10dr anyways, with my 0ac rogue I manage to do Coal chamber with 3 charges of Stoneskin solo, renewing it very seldom. And in ritual sacrifice it only took me 4 charges as main "meleer".)

Note
This is how you should post your builds, not like the cluster-**** you have posted. Took me ages to compare em really and probably missed a lot as your layout is unreadable.

This is a gimp. But much less of one compared to Torthur. Do not roll it unless for flavor, and only for flavor.

[Yargore]

I don't understand why you are taking this thread and build so personally? All he stated was this was a powerful pure class Ranger and you jumped it like a cat on a mouse. Personally I like the build and might even give it a try. I have been looking for a PURE Ranger build and this looks good. I have seen many positive responses to this post as opposed to your God build which seemed to get quite a bit of negative feedback. On another note I thought they were nerfing the Monk splash so how would that affect your Monk/Ranger build? As for the race, i agree with the Dwarf choice for the reasons stated, Dwarven axes, con enhancements, axe enhancements, armor enhancements seem to fit the concept.

No, what he stated was that it was the most powerful character.

Dwarf is a poor choice for rangers, really bad synergi between them.
Sure, you get DAs for free, but go human and use the extra feat for khopesh and end up at higher DPS, and save 12(!) APs.

The OP did not choose dwarf or pure for flavor or fun/whatever, he chose it because it seemed to him that it was the most powerful way to go.
It might have been so when he roleld it, but atm it isn't. I'm sure that you understand that going human and splashing monk and rogue is better (just because it's cookie cutter or whatever doesn't mean it's bad, it usually means it's good).

[Rhymer25]

Name: XXXXXX
Class: Ranger 16
Race: Dwarf
Allignment: Neutral

Base Stats:
Str 17
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 11
Wis 8
Cha 6


Skills
Max concentration, balance, jump, umd and tumble, spot and some other skill that one can justify.

Items
Weapon: Mineral II DA, Insight
Offhand: Mineral II DA, blast
Head: Minos
Goggles: Tharnes
Armor: Dragontouched leather armor with +5 res, Healing Amplification 20% and Destruction
Bracers: Chaosgarde
Gloves: 10 hp, +6 wisdom, +5 cha skills, 150 sp, conc opp.
Ring: chattering ring
Ring: Tumbleweed
Boots: Free to use for any boosts like dragon, fire greaves, etc.
Belt: +6 str +gfl. Belt of brute str.
Cloak: 35 hp, +5 prot, heavy fort, wizardy VI, +1 cha skills
Necklace: +6 con
Trinket: Bloodstone

Why the hell do you have so many +6 items?????!!!! I do not play a ranger but I know you need to sacrifice some really good items to take a +6... I mean one or two or whatever but this is insane. I thought you were a power builder.

Torthur explains EVERYTHING on his build. You explain NOTHING. Torthur made a GUIDE. You made a cut and paste of another build but instead of 2 monk or whatever you made it 16 ranger.

I was about to say nice try but it is a haphazard attempt that should be shunned and spat on.

[Crarites]

Name: XXXXXX
Class: Ranger 16
Race: Dwarf
Allignment: Neutral

Base Stats:
Str 17
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 11
Wis 8
Cha 6

Ending Stats:
Str 32 (17 base + 6 item + 3 tome + 4 levels +2 Rams might)
Dex 26 (16 base + 3 tome + 6 item + 1 enhancements)
Con 24 (16 base + 2 tome + 6 item)
Int 13 (11 base + 2 tome)
Wis 16 (8 base + 6 item + 2 tome)
Cha 14 (6 base + 6 (UMD) +2 tome)

+2 Int tome as soon as possible, for skills points and CE.

Obviously not all of the tomes will be needed, they are just there so the viewer knows what will be there in the end.

Enhancements at level 16
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger skill boost II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
Enhancement: Dwarven armor master I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger energy of the wilds I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion IV
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I

Final AC Breakdown:
10 Base
8 dex
8 DT breastplate
2 chaosgarde
5 deflection
1 Dodge
3 Chattering Ring
4 insight
1 Ritual
2 tempest
3 Favored
(5 CE)
----------------
47 (52) - unbuffed
----------------
5 barkskin
1 haste
4 shield wand
----------------
57(62) - self buffed
----------------
5 aura
4 bard song
----------------
66 (71) with party buffs

Saves Unbuffed at level 20
Fortitude: 27(28) (10 Levels +5 res +7 con +1 save ritual +4 vs spells +1 vs favored)
Reflex: 29(30) (10 Levels +5 res +8 dex +1 save ritual +4 vs spells +1 vs favored)
Will: 18(19) (5 Levels +5 res +3 wisdom +1 save ritual +4 vs spells +1 vs favored)

Saves Self Buffed at level 20
Fortitude: 31(32) (27 + 4 GH)
Reflex: 34(35) (29 + 4 GH + 1 haste)
Will: 22(23) (18 + 4 GH)

Hit Points at level 20
128 Ranger levels
20 Heroic Durability
112 Con
30 GFL
10 Favor
35 Shroud item
18 Minos
20 enhancements
---------------------
373

Feats:
1.Dodge
3.Mobility
6.Spring attack
9.Power attack
12.Improved critical Slashing (CE after mineral II)
15.Maximize / empower healing

FE:
Evil outsiders
Constructs
Elementals
Undead

The most commonly faced raid boss(evil outsiders) combined 3 uncrittable monster types.

UMD in UMD mode
9 ranks
6 shroud item
3 charisma
5 seven fingered gloves
4 gh
2 head
3 skill boost
--------------
31

Skills
Max concentration, balance, jump, umd and tumble, spot and some other skill that one can justify.

Items
Weapon: Mineral II DA, Insight
Offhand: Mineral II DA, blast
Head: Minos
Goggles: Tharnes
Armor: Dragontouched leather armor with +5 res, Healing Amplification 20% and Destruction
Bracers: Chaosgarde
Gloves: 10 hp, +6 wisdom, +5 cha skills, 150 sp, conc opp.
Ring: chattering ring
Ring: Tumbleweed
Boots: Free to use for any boosts like dragon, fire greaves, etc.
Belt: +6 str +gfl. Belt of brute str.
Cloak: 35 hp, +5 prot, heavy fort, wizardy VI, +1 cha skills
Necklace: +6 con
Trinket: Bloodstone

One can take the mineral II cloak to boots and use a blur cloak if one really loves gimping ones character.

Differences
+20% more healing amp = better selfhealing Great bonus to the already great selfhealing.
+8 more ac with combat expertise 3 more with PA vs Torthur in CE. Makes all the difference in the world
+31% more dps (+4 str, +1 DA enhancement +5 pa +3 FE dmg, bloodstone, dual DA, better weapons, ) Makes all the difference in the world
+Free boots slot for anything one can need.
+1 more conc opp Pretty good.
+1 ref save
+2 will save Makes quite a difference as the will save isn't that great.


-20% perma blur (You can wand it easily anyways)
-10 less hp.
-22 sr
-perma disease immunity
-Lesser good guard (Nothing worth mentioning)
-3 UMD (The difference is nought without boost, then it's mere 1)
-5perma dr (Stoneskin for 10dr anyways, with my 0ac rogue I manage to do Coal chamber with 3 charges of Stoneskin solo, renewing it very seldom. And in ritual sacrifice it only took me 4 charges as main "meleer".)

Note
This is how you should post your builds, not like the cluster-**** you have posted. Took me ages to compare em really and probably missed a lot as your layout is unreadable.

This is a gimp. But much less of one compared to Torthur. Do not roll it unless for flavor, and only for flavor.

Good job, you finally contributed to the discussion. The only problem is alot of what you presented is completely wrong. I suggest reviwing the equipment layout with regards to mod9 and dropping the hp total significantly since you don't have toughness but include the enhancement and bonus to your hp totals.

edit never mind i see he gimps his dmg to rely soly on min 2s.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Why the hell do you have so many +6 items?????!!!! I do not play a ranger but I know you need to sacrifice some really good items to take a +6... I mean one or two or whatever but this is insane. I thought you were a power builder.

Torthur explains EVERYTHING on his build. You explain NOTHING. Torthur made a GUIDE. You made a cut and paste of another build but instead of 2 monk or whatever you made it 16 ranger.

I was about to say nice try but it is a haphazard attempt that should be shunned and spat on.

Look at the items, I don't sacrifice anything worth mentioning. Dex is with +2 to hit, strength is with GFL, +6 wisdom is for free, +6 con is used on a slot where nothing else good really can compare. Protip, learn in the game before saying "you sacrifice...something!".
Who I gods name said I would make a guide? I would hardly make a guide to justify a gimped class split.
I made it from scratch, just used my and Yargores build layout, which is READABLE!

Read up on the "differences" section; anyone non-biased will see which one is better.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Good job, you finally contributed to the discussion. The only problem is alot of what you presented is completely wrong. I suggest reviwing the equipment layout with regards to mod9 and dropping the hp total significantly since you don't have toughness but include the enhancement and bonus to your hp totals. its also hard to turn on combat expertise without having it as a feat first.

I laugh, this one was made for mod 8 and mod 8 alone. Just like Torhur is currently. Newsflash, minos adds toughness in mod 8, and you're able to take enhancements with it.

Re-read the feats, aquire Mineral and then take CE. Please, don't comment on **** when you haven't read it.

[KoboldKiller]

No, what he stated was that it was the most powerful character.

Dwarf is a poor choice for rangers, really bad synergi between them.
Sure, you get DAs for free, but go human and use the extra feat for khopesh and end up at higher DPS, and save 12(!) APs.

The OP did not choose dwarf or pure for flavor or fun/whatever, he chose it because it seemed to him that it was the most powerful way to go.
It might have been so when he roleld it, but atm it isn't. I'm sure that you understand that going human and splashing monk and rogue is better (just because it's cookie cutter or whatever doesn't mean it's bad, it usually means it's good).

Not sure how Dwarf is a poor choice for str based rangers. Mine is Dwarf and some of the best Rangers I have known are Dwarf.

[Crarites]

I laugh, this one was made for mod 8 and mod 8 alone. Just like Torhur is currently. Newsflash, minos adds toughness in mod 8, and you're able to take enhancements with it.

Re-read the feats, aquire Mineral and then take CE. Please, don't comment on **** when you haven't read it.

way to go, you've managed to make a build viable for 2 weeks. and relying on min 2 is a very poor choice overall.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

way to go, you've managed to make a build viable for 2 weeks. and relying on min 2 is a very poor choice overall.

Just swap the items around when more mod 9 items gets official (complete set etc) and get tougheness as feat at level 18. See that's how hard that was.

The stats, enhancements and feats are better with my builds for what DDO offers. Period. Items are changable to ones taste really.

Oh and mineral II will still be the only slasher on will use. So no harm there.

[Yargore]

Not sure how Dwarf is a poor choice for str based rangers. Mine is Dwarf and some of the best Rangers I have known are Dwarf.

Because khopeshes deals higher DPS than DAs, even if you spend 12(!!)APs on them, and human gets imp recovery and extra str.
Human versality is also pretty good to have on a ranger.

[Yargore]

way to go, you've managed to make a build viable for 2 weeks. and relying on min 2 is a very poor choice overall.

Why is that? Because he doesn't have imp crit for his undead bashers?

[Crarites]

Just swap the items around when more mod 9 items gets official (complete set etc) and get tougheness as feat at level 18. See that's how hard that was.

The stats, enhancements and feats are better with my builds for what DDO offers. Period. Items are changable to ones taste really.

Oh and mineral II will still be the only slasher on will use. So no harm there.

not true you'll want to invest in a radiance scimitar mod9, also the only banishing slasher you'll find is a longsword.

But i must say its finally nice to see you actually stay on topic. good work.

[Crarites]

Why is that? Because he doesn't have imp crit for his undead bashers?

no because relying no a single weapon to caryr you build through the rest of the game is in a word stupid.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

not true you'll want to invest in a radiance scimitar mod9, also the only banishing slasher you'll find is a longsword.

But i must say its finally nice to see you actually stay on topic. good work.

Why would I want to have a radiance scimiter for mod 9? Is there some Lemania stuff that I am unaware of? Even if one really wants/needs it 18-20 works good enough on dual wield radiance.

Who in gods name uses banishers anyways? You wont be able to banish in mod 9 anyways, as they are on their plane.

[Crarites]

Who in gods name uses banishers anyways? You wont be able to banish in mod 9 anyways, as they are on their plane.

Since your using vale quests to jusity your comments about stone skin, I was under the impression thats as far as you go in the game.

[Yargore]

So now you have maxxed subtle backstabber. You switch around as much as Absolute-nonsense. Apparently your also unable to create equipment macros as well. Not exactly the mark of a power gamer. Also your math doesn't add up again if you indeed claim 30% more dps over other builds.

Are you serious?
You said that litany gave more DPS than bloodstone, when AO proved you wrong you brought mentau goggls to save your ass, but then ofcourse I tell you that if you use mentau you can't use vod goggles, which adds quite alot to your DPS.
Can't you just admit that you were wrong or explain why litany gives higher DPS than bloodstone?

No I don't have maxed subtle backstabbing as that reqires level 13, I will get it in mod 9 though.
-20% from subtle backstabbing II and -20% from tharnes is what i got in mod 8.
Yes, I'm not talking abot God here, I'm talking about the build that AO used in the bloodstone vs litany calc.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Since your using vale quests to jusity your comments about stone skin, I was under the impression thats as far as you go in the game.

And who uses banishers in vale? Not I for one. DPS > banishing if you have the right dps characters; which I do.
And my point was that though an ENTIRE quest only 3 charges went, you will HARDLY have to cast it TWICE in EACH fight with 65(!) AC in ANY mod 9 quests.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Just noticed he drops IC: Slashing as well, so you should complain about his build as well then . Though I think he's doing well in dropping it.

[Yargore]

no because relying no a single weapon to cary you build through the rest of the game is in a word stupid.

How so?
It's a good weapon. Just because transmuting gets nerfed doesn't mean it will become useless. Holy + transmuting will be enough for all raid bosses, and for sorjek and other undeads imp crit is kinda moot.

BTW, he can drop CE and still have higher AC than the OPs build in CE if it comes a new weapon that is better than mineral II.

Oh, remember that the OP also lacks imp crit, yet you praise his build. Consistency ftw