Noob thinks 32 point builds should be for all.

[Xalted_Vol]

umm what is a larp is that a vampire thing ??? I am protected from all forms of magic.

[Xylitol]

My latest 32-point has +2 or +3 tomes in every stat. That +2 tome for my original 28-point? Not so hot.

I ment that "special" tome is special so that it wont count as normal tome bonus. IE you could have that special tome and normal +3 tome in same star. That way "grinding" 28 point build would get closer to 32 point build.

[Strakeln]

I ment that "special" tome is special so that it wont count as normal tome bonus. IE you could have that special tome and normal +3 tome in same star. That way "grinding" 28 point build would get closer to 32 point build.

That would be interesting, but would arguably only work if they don't give a "special" tome reward to 32-point builds.

The overall problem here though is that this solution still doesn't treat all equally. I think some of the prior suggestions might be better suited.

[branmakmuffin]

I have kids proably older then you are and they agree with me to heck with whiners earn it.

I can only reiterate that I agree with this sentiment (and let me remind everyone that I have not unlocked 32-point builds).

It's a marketing tool, aimed at people who play a lot. Give it to everyone and then Turbine will have to come up with something else to placate the 40-hour/week gamers. Although, heck, there probably needs to be more favor rewards added at higher levels than 1750, possibly even (ugh) respecs.

[Borror0]

It's a marketing tool, aimed at people who play a lot. Give it to everyone and then Turbine will have to come up with something else to placate the 40-hour/week gamers. Although, heck, there probably needs to be more favor rewards added at higher levels than 1750, possibly even (ugh) respecs.

How does that conflict with allowing 28 point buy builds to improve into 32 point buy builds when acquired?

[Uska]

How does that conflict with allowing 28 point buy builds to improve into 32 point buy builds when acquired?

I agree 28pt characters should get upgraded when they hit 1750 favor or even when you get your 32pt on that server but neve should we just give 32pt builds to new people just because they whiners say so I dont really think it would make the differnece of many people in staying as they cry about one thing they cry about something else.

[Strakeln]

It's a marketing tool, aimed at people who play a lot. Give it to everyone and then Turbine will have to come up with something else to placate the 40-hour/week gamers. Although, heck, there probably needs to be more favor rewards added at higher levels than 1750, possibly even (ugh) respecs.

It's a failed marketing tool. Give it to everyone and Turbine can use one of the many, many suggestions for replacement of that carrot (they don't even have to "come up with it" themselves!!!). 40 hour/week gamers will not leave the game in any significant number as a result of this change... they long ago obtained that carrot.

[Deadz]

I agree 28pt characters should get upgraded when they hit 1750 favor or even when you get your 32pt on that server but neve should we just give 32pt builds to new people just because they whiners say so I dont really think it would make the differnece of many people in staying as they cry about one thing they cry about something else.

Yes we have all heard you say everyone who agrees is crying and we are all whiners.. grow up

[Borror0]

I agree 28pt characters should get upgraded when they hit 1750 favor or even when you get your 32pt on that server but neve should we just give 32pt builds to new people

Glad we agree on this.

[muffinlad]

I like the idea. Maybe just drop 32 down to 1000 and keep the +2 tome at 1750.

I hate posts that basically say "I said we should do that XX years ago, when this started"...so in the sprit of my own hypocricy....I said, at the time they were rolling this out that 1750 was too much to unlock 32 point toons, and there was not enough of a difference in the reward levels-

400 granting drow- Super!
1350 points before you get something else....."Shakes head in disbelief".

Yes, you are getting different "house rewards", but even those are suspect at their levels-

All in all, 1750 is not too hard of a level for +4 on all following characters AND a +2Tome....but they should have broken the rewards out differently...say-

400- Drow
800- +1 Bound Tome
1200 - 32 point build
1600 - +2 Bound Tome
2000 - Shroud Blank
2400 - +3 Bound Tome
2800 - Summon Dancing Vixens.

Etc.

Regs

muffinfavorite

PS. The House Rewards need a change as well......75/150.....then 400? And the 400 for Free Agents is pretty crappy and should be changed to repairing bound items, while 400 Silver Flame is kind of cool, but limited by the amount of quests you HAVE to do to get that level of favor.

[Borror0]

It's a failed marketing tool.

How so? It does give new players something to look up to.

I might have missed a post where you elaborated more on it, if so you can just link it to me and I'll reply to that post.

[muffinlad]

1750, the only way to get a full respec, and only once. Do it Turbine. Do it. Make us happy.

Nice...I like this idea as well.

muffinmetooer

[Suzaku]

I just don't care for the hazing of getting 1750 favor before I can grab 1750 favor just to make the character I want.

[ahpook]

It's a marketing tool, aimed at people who play a lot. Give it to everyone and then Turbine will have to come up with something else to placate the 40-hour/week gamers. Although, heck, there probably needs to be more favor rewards added at higher levels than 1750, possibly even (ugh) respecs.

It was a marketing tool that made sense when it was released to players who already had 5 or 6 28 pt characters. They would want to reroll all of them to 32 point builds and would have to do so 5 or 6 times. Now it is poor marketing tool because power gamers already have it and 1750 favor holds no value or they run one character to 1750 before rolling any other toons.

"I had to earn my favor and so should new players"

I don't think that anyone is saying that people should not have to earn 1750 favor. In fact, I would be in favor of changing favor so that if you are too high level (or low level) to get XP, you should get no favor credit. What they are saying is that the reward for 1750 is not effective nor does it make for good game play. I think there are lot favor rewards that make more sense from the character perspective, for gameplay AND for player retention. Of course, this was all brought up at the time it was introduced and basically Turbine made their decision against these arguments. The horse is dead.

[krud]

I agree with the OP and, as has been well put, 32 pt builds was a mistake as a reward at 1750. It showed a lack of imagination and game relevance as to the character you had spent time playing. The +2 tome made a difference. Perhaps NOT getting a +2 tome with a 32 point character would level the field.

the 32 pt build was made to offset the advantages that drow got. Without it drow would have been the better choice for quite a few builds. People were complaining that rogues, wizzies and sorcs were all becoming drow (at least if you were one of those that really cared about maximizing your stats). They needed something comparable for the other races and this is what we got.

Trying to equalize the field with tomes is a bad way to do it, because anyone can always get a tome through loot. Perhaps a better way is to give the charcater an option to go to creation screen and reroll into 32pts, keeping all gear, favor and tomes. Just have him visit the trainers to level himself up to where he was before. However, once that kind reroll option is out there, everyone is going to demand it be made available as a respec otion whenever they feel their character is nerfed, regardless of favor.

[Strakeln]

How so? It does give new players something to look up to.

I might have missed a post where you elaborated more on it, if so you can just link it to me and I'll reply to that post.

IMO, it provides more discouragement to new players than it does enticement.

While not as intended, one way new players can (and some - many? - do) see it is as follows:

"Welcome to DDO, where new players are handicapped. In order to remove this handicap and even out the playing field, you must play the game for a couple months then start over again"

[ahpook]

How so? It does give new players something to look up to.

It is failed because you only need to get it on one character (power gamers don't care about the +2 tomes, heck I barely care enough about them to go for 1750). You really want something to drive players to get it on every character they play so you need something not attainable elsewhere and worth getting repeatedly.

And it makes new players feel even more inferior to long term players and can be a disincentive because the best thing you can do when hitting 1750 favor is to quit playing the character that just accomplished that milestone. Does that not sound stupid?

[Borror0]

"Welcome to DDO, where new players are handicapped. In order to remove this handicap and even out the playing field, you must play the game for a couple months then start over again"

You and aphook have missed this post.

Of course I agree that without upgrade, it is a failed marketing tool but there is no reason to throw the baby with the bath water.

[Toronus]

I'm thinken if the +2 tome you get was stackable or the guy just raises any stat by 2 and leaves it open to another tome use... that would fix it all.

[krud]

IMO, it provides more discouragement to new players than it does enticement.
the glass is half full
While not as intended, one way new players can (and some - many? - do) see it is as follows:

"Welcome to DDO, where new players are handicapped. In order to remove this handicap and even out the playing field, you must play the game for a couple months then start over again"

or the glass is half empty.

It all depends on how you view it, and where you view the start. If you view the start at the beginning of character creation, then yes, people who have been around for a while start with an advantage; either in favor, tomes, loot, knowledge, etc. However, if you view the beginning as when you start playing DDO, then everyone playing DDO starts at the same place. Nobody starts with an advantage. Your first character starts from the exact same starting line as everyone else's 1st character. From that standpoint, everyone is equal. What you do after that is entirely up to you.

If you are trying to say that everyone's 1st character should start at the same place as everyone else's 5th or 6th character, well that's different. Why wouldn't turbine want these new people to stick around for a year or two in order to get to the same place that older players are? Is it that way in other MMOs, or are newer players automatically accelerated to the point where people who have been around for a while are?