Noob thinks 32 point builds should be for all.

[krud]

It's the mechanic of having to play x toon to make Y toon better is offputting to new players..

That is exactly what the shroud grind is about. I have run the shroud on multiple toons for the sole purpose of gathering enough ingredients for one complete shroud item for another character.

[Kalari]

I almost forgot about this been busy as heck. But 1750 really isnt that hard to get if your guilded. I'll tell the story again. Former guildy and his girlfriend shared a pc, they made her character a ranger on his account got her to almost level 14 when they finally got her, her own pc. Well come to find out because her ranger was made on his account there was no way to transfer the girl over when they finally got her an account of her own.

Dishearted she was depressed but not wanting her to leave the guild rallied around her and took her new girl threw elite quests for just favor. She may have died maybe once or twice (hehe blew a trap box up on her once ) But in 2 weeks with the help of several members she got 1750. So I know it can be done if effort is put, I just feel that if you dont go looking for it you will see it sooner. But if what im reading is right and the op is a casual who re rolls I dunno what to say to that I tend to find a girl I like and play her till im itching to play something else.

[Uska]

Earn It:d

[gHzSWB]

I am not much for grinds and timesinks, although I realize to an extent they have to be part of MMOs. The problem with them in DDO, which is not really a real MMO (another argument) is that they often exist for the sole purpose of extending subscriptions and for no other legitimate in game reason. 32 point build is something that should take some work I think but it would make more sense, in terms of in game justification, if you accumulated the favor across all you characters rather than just one. That way people are rewarded not for just doign the same stupid content over and over or grinding out favor but for making various characters and just playing them. I won't opressume to say how the number should change if doing it across all toons but I think the idea of earning it with all yoru characters rather than one fits better with a game that is strong at haracter building and weak in terms of the amouont of content and the appeal of higher level content.

[Seneca_Windforge]

Or you could describe the same process as: "DDO is pretty good, with the FEATUE that after you play your first character a while and experience the game, you can unlock the bonus of being able to roll up a enhanced character that will allow you some creative advanced character options".

So you should spin it in a dirty way like a politician might do? Isn't this person in theory your friend?

[Uska]

sure, it acts as an incentive for people already in love with DDO.

For people that aren't already sold on pouring dozens of hours into DDO, it is often (not always, of course) off-putting.

I like the suggestion of 32pts at 1000 favor.

that I can support but not giving it away

[branmakmuffin]

I suppose what I meant to ask is "would it impact your play experience". And the obvious answer there is no, it would not.

It could affect my gaming experience. The overall Monty Haulness of the game affects everyone's gaming experience to one degree or another. Whether it's a noticeable degree is the crux of the matter.

Look, a lot of you can continue to deny it, but if you think the 1750 favor setup is good for the long term health of the game, you're flat-out wrong. Anything that so blatantly discourages new blood from even trying the game is, simply put, a horrid idea. Another example might be the grandfathering of crit rage... an absolutely horrible idea.

The crit rage thing is a bow to the usual crowd of whining power gamers, who practically threaten to hold their breaths until they turn blue if they don't get their way.

[Strakeln]

It could affect my gaming experience. The overall Monty Haulness of the game affects everyone's gaming experience to one degree or another. Whether it's a noticeable degree is the crux of the matter.

Agreed, and I think we can both agree you wouldn't notice the difference if newbs had 28 or 32 points. But they would.

The crit rage thing is a bow to the usual crowd of whining power gamers, who practically threaten to hold their breaths until they turn blue if they don't get their way.

Sorta my point... tick off the veterans and they'll be unhappy. Tick off a new player, they'll go elsewhere.

[Uska]

Not everyone can be bothered by it.

From what I've seen, most people without access to 32-point builds are a bit irked by it.

Tell me, would changing it so everyone had 32-point builds bother you? I'm guessing no.

So, you're happy the way it is now, and you'd be happy if they changed it.

Someone else is unhappy with the way it is now, and would be happy if they changed it.

Doesn't the best solution seem painfully obvious here? Can you think of any way to make it so that we see no red in the above two lines?

lower yes but not get rid of if I think if they started with 32 pts they might burn out sooner with no goal. if they are unhappy about having to earn 32pts then they will be unhappy about something else like rogues not having sneak attack against every thing all I see is a bunch a cry babies and would rather see the game die then put up with them.

[Uska]

Not quite that Simplistic... The Point Buy system DDO Uses is a Valid Option for the 3.5 Ruleset.

Pretty sure the die rolling w/ 3.5 is 4d6 and Drop the lowest die 6 Times. Arrange those 6 results as you see fit.

that is one dice system there many others like roll 4d6 drop lowest in order.

in orignal it was roll 3d6 in order period. I still use that in my 1st ed game so if someone is playing a monk or paladin you know they got lucky and my players love it.

[tihocan]

Don't really have time to read the whole thread, but... I also agree with the OP, tying 32 pt builds to 1750 favor sucks and I've never liked it.

[Strakeln]

lower yes but not get rid of if I think if they started with 32 pts they might burn out sooner with no goal.

I think that argument doesn't hold much water, and here's why: how long have you had 1750? I've had it since about a month after they introduced 32-point builds... what was that, two years ago? I suspect the vast majority of current DDO players have had their 1750 for a year or more.

The point is, while 1750 is a carrot, it's not the only one, nor is it one that really keeps people playing. Furthermore, there's nothing saying we can't introduce another carrot to replace it. If your concern is that people need goals to avoid burnout, there's nothing wrong with replacing this goal with one that is character-specific instead of account-specific.

[Uska]

I think that argument doesn't hold much water, and here's why: how long have you had 1750? I've had it since about a month after they introduced 32-point builds... what was that, two years ago? I suspect the vast majority of current DDO players have had their 1750 for a year or more.

The point is, while 1750 is a carrot, it's not the only one, nor is it one that really keeps people playing. Furthermore, there's nothing saying we can't introduce another carrot to replace it. If your concern is that people need goals to avoid burnout, there's nothing wrong with replacing this goal with one that is character-specific instead of account-specific.

Ok how about I did it you have to dont like it leave. I dont want whiners here if it means the game dies if they leave fine I would rather have no game then game with whiny babies. If they get this they will just find somethingelse to whine about. Like the rogue sneak attack whiners crying they cant sneak attack everything under the sun. dont like leave.

[Deadz]

Ok how about I did it you have to dont like it leave. I dont want whiners here if it means the game dies if they leave fine I would rather have no game then game with whiny babies. If they get this they will just find somethingelse to whine about. Like the rogue sneak attack whiners crying they cant sneak attack everything under the sun. dont like leave.

LoL sounds like someone is having a tantrum..

[shores11]

I'm sure this argument has happened 100 times but let me say my peace, then you can trash it all you want .

as a married man with a newborn, i hardly get time to mmo.. now the strength of DDO is caracter creation, but.. without time, it's very hard to group alot, and it's very hard to cap a character.. you all see how many posts i have, when i started.. well this is my third account (they are like 2 bucks on cd-key sites).. and i have my first toon approaching 600 favor.. lol

what this does to me, personally.. it keeps me from trying alts and experimenting, which imo is the strength of this game, severely decreasing my "fun factor"

the favor makes sense, and the "cap" gives you that +2 tome, so people still get something, i just personally feel that the lack of 32 point builds makes me feel like my alts are "gimped" from the start.. i'm not saying they wouldn't be w/ 32 points (go ahead, giggle) but the feeling is there, decreasing my fun factor..

and

2) this would not hurt anyone in any way shape or form.. yes the hardcore say they "earned it" and everyone should as well.. but I feel this game is no longer new, and well, what's the point imo it makes more sense to put everyone on a level playing field and INCREASE the fun factor for the casuals, without DECREASING the fun factor for the rest...

Just my opinion, but i can live with trieing like heck to grind out those points to get my 32 pointer, i'd just rather roll my 32 point rogue and enjoy him .

1st - 32 point builds are for everyone so I don't understand the OP. All you have to do is get 1750 favor.
2nd - 28 point point builds are not gimp characters in anyway and if you feel that way then I can't help you at all.

I have chosen not to reroll my 3, 28 point builds because I enjoy playing them still to this day 3 years later. They are not gimped in anyway and contribute very nicely to any party. I just feel that having a goal out there to achieve is a great way DDO has put in place for favor building amongst many things. I would really hope that this never changes.

[Strakeln]

Ok how about I did it you have to dont like it leave. I dont want whiners here if it means the game dies if they leave fine I would rather have no game then game with whiny babies. If they get this they will just find somethingelse to whine about. Like the rogue sneak attack whiners crying they cant sneak attack everything under the sun. dont like leave.

Typically a stance taken when someone has no real argument to present.

Think about that.

[Deadz]

2nd - 28 point point builds are not gimp characters in anyway and if you feel that way then I can't help you at all.
-I agree, i know they aren't REALLY gimped.. but it leaves that feeling with lots of new players, you see there are lots of others who agree... there in lies the problem, it starts off as a negative feeling...

I have chosen not to reroll my 3, 28 point builds because I enjoy playing them still to this day 3 years later.
-Awesome, i personally am waiting on 1750 favor to roll the rogue i really want to play, it seems a LONG wait.

They are not gimped in anyway and contribute very nicely to any party.
-agreed
I just feel that having a goal out there to achieve is a great way DDO has put in place for favor building amongst many things.
-Agree favor building goals are nice, i just PERSONALLY feel this one is misguided.
I would really hope that this never changes.
-you are intitled to you opinion, i have no problem with you disagreeing!

reply's above

[shores11]

I am not much for grinds and timesinks, although I realize to an extent they have to be part of MMOs. The problem with them in DDO, which is not really a real MMO (another argument) is that they often exist for the sole purpose of extending subscriptions and for no other legitimate in game reason. 32 point build is something that should take some work I think but it would make more sense, in terms of in game justification, if you accumulated the favor across all you characters rather than just one. That way people are rewarded not for just doign the same stupid content over and over or grinding out favor but for making various characters and just playing them. I won't opressume to say how the number should change if doing it across all toons but I think the idea of earning it with all yoru characters rather than one fits better with a game that is strong at haracter building and weak in terms of the amouont of content and the appeal of higher level content.

This idea doesn't make any sense. So your saying instead of having one character do enough quests to get to 1750 favor allow several characters build their favor that you have created. So you would have your character A (as an example) run waterworks and your character B run waterworks and have the favor add up for both? You would do this instead of having your character A run waterworks on normal and hard? Really, what is the difference?

[Strakeln]

1st - 32 point builds are for everyone so I don't understand the OP. All you have to do is get 1750 favor.
2nd - 28 point point builds are not gimp characters in anyway and if you feel that way then I can't help you at all.

I have chosen not to reroll my 3, 28 point builds because I enjoy playing them still to this day 3 years later. They are not gimped in anyway and contribute very nicely to any party. I just feel that having a goal out there to achieve is a great way DDO has put in place for favor building amongst many things. I would really hope that this never changes.

It's worth noting that "gimped" is an opinion, not a black-and-white state of being.

Meaning, while you feel that 28-pt builds are not gimped, someone else does... and you're both correct.

The problem is, each person defines "gimped" differently. For some, the difference between gimped and uber is in the single percentage points, whereas for others, it may actually be impossible to create a gimped character (in their opinion).

What we can agree upon is that those four points will make a character more powerful/effective. There's no arguing this, but I'm willing to if you want: point me to any 28-point build and I will show you at minimum two ways it could be improved by adding four build points.

[shores11]

reply's above

2nd - 28 point point builds are not gimp characters in anyway and if you feel that way then I can't help you at all.
-I agree, i know they aren't REALLY gimped.. but it leaves that feeling with lots of new players, you see there are lots of others who agree... there in lies the problem, it starts off as a negative feeling...

There are also just as many or more that like the way the system is to include many new players. I know a lot of them myself and they like the idea of building their characters favor up to achieve 400 and 1750 in fact they want even more favor goals added for higher favor achieved.