Noob thinks 32 point builds should be for all.

[SableShadow]

No, its a bit more than half. Its a weak compromise. It would be better to do nothing.

How do you figure?

[Uska]

Sounds like we need a character respec mechanism.

Use to be against such but to many changes have happened but I dont see us getting one.

[Fenrisulven6]

/edit, dbl post, see below

[Fenrisulven6]

How do you figure?

A +1 stat bonus is not equivalent to 4 build pts if you intended to use those build points to raise secondary stats.

For example, +1 to my rogue's Dex would be nice, but what if instead I wanted to bump both my Con and Cha from 12 to 14? Its not the same thing.

[SableShadow]

A +1 stat bonus is not equivalent to 4 build pts if you intended to use those build points to raise secondary stats.

Sure, it needs sweeteners on it. Doesn't make it worse than nothing, though...if anything, it's a much better approach ("upgrade the 28") than to, say, just lower the required favor. The later doesn't even begin to address the root issue ("rerolls are inherently better characters"), while a stat bonus does.

Even the current 1750 tome is a nod in that direction; it's just that the game has progressed, and, if you can just mail a +2 tome to an upcoming 32, you're still left with "rerolls are inherently better characters".

[Fenrisulven6]

Sure, it needs sweeteners on it. Doesn't make it worse than nothing, though.

Well, I meant it in the sense that its alot of effort for something that just bandaids the problem.

But yes, prob not the best choice of words.

[SableShadow]

Well, I meant it in the sense that its alot of effort for something that just bandaids the problem.

But yes, prob not the best choice of words.

So...stir in a respec mechanism to remove the "trapped" feeling and take krud's general approach, upgrading all characters on the account from 28s to 32s upon reaching favor. Sure, you'll still have folks eager to get to 1750 for the upgrade, just as you still have folks eager to punch through to endgame quests, but the fundamental problem "rerolls are inherently better" just vaporizes, doesn't it?

[Deadz]

So...stir in a respec mechanism to remove the "trapped" feeling and take krud's general approach, upgrading all characters on the account from 28s to 32s upon reaching favor. Sure, you'll still have folks eager to get to 1750 for the upgrade, just as you still have folks eager to punch through to endgame quests, but the fundamental problem "rerolls are inherently better" just vaporizes, doesn't it?

Aye i'd roll my rogue now, instead of waiting for 1750 :P If i understand it right.

[Strakeln]

So...stir in a respec mechanism to remove the "trapped" feeling and take krud's general approach, upgrading all characters on the account from 28s to 32s upon reaching favor. Sure, you'll still have folks eager to get to 1750 for the upgrade, just as you still have folks eager to punch through to endgame quests, but the fundamental problem "rerolls are inherently better" just vaporizes, doesn't it?

It's worth noting that adding in a full respec mechanism that includes 32-point conversion would be (in my mind) an adequate fix to what I see as the issues with 1750.

2 birds, one stone, Turbine!

[SableShadow]

It's worth noting that adding in a full respec mechanism that includes 32-point conversion would be (in my mind) an adequate fix to what I see as the issues with 1750.

2 birds, one stone, Turbine!

Not everyone will be happy. The folks that ground favor, deleted their own 28s for new 32s are going to feel a little cheated. Still, pairing it with a respec mechanic will (probably) be enough of a perk for these folks that they won't be overly upset.

That's kinda the nature of change; do it smart, and the fallout becomes managable. Do it stupid, and you're just asking for trouble.

[Zenako]

It's worth noting that adding in a full respec mechanism that includes 32-point conversion would be (in my mind) an adequate fix to what I see as the issues with 1750.

2 birds, one stone, Turbine!

But introducing a "build" trainer that would allow you assign build points to a 28 build, is quite different than creating a viable respec procedure.

Build trainer - allow you to add "4 build points worth of stats" to a 28 point character with build costs based on current existing stats, would be fairly easy to implement I would think. No need to worry about when or what the starting stats were, just the current stats when the trainer is visited. Game has to check a few things: 1) Does the character or account in question have 1750 award flag triggered. 2) Has this character completed a training session already (no multi dipping), 3) was the character creation date prior to the 32 point build on the account flagging date, if so preceed, if not, it was already a 32 point build. (May be some drow issues to check too). If it meets the needs, proceed to assign build point stats just like in character creation, BUT, the paperdoll has the current base stat, and the costs for bumping each stat by one displayed. (1,2,3 or 4). You would not be able to pump a stat to levels otherwise not available since those would require 5 build points.

Simple, clean, very intuitive and would address the concern many are voicing over there feelings about "wasting" time until they can play the game. It would retain much of the current structure of incentives.

[Deadz]

You would not be able to pump a stat to levels otherwise not available since those would require 5 build points.

isn't 3 the current cap?

[Strakeln]

But introducing a "build" trainer that would allow you assign build points to a 28 build, is quite different than creating a viable respec procedure.

Build trainer - allow you to add "4 build points worth of stats" to a 28 point character with build costs based on current existing stats, would be fairly easy to implement I would think. No need to worry about when or what the starting stats were, just the current stats when the trainer is visited. Game has to check a few things: 1) Does the character or account in question have 1750 award flag triggered. 2) Has this character completed a training session already (no multi dipping), 3) was the character creation date prior to the 32 point build on the account flagging date, if so preceed, if not, it was already a 32 point build. (May be some drow issues to check too). If it meets the needs, proceed to assign build point stats just like in character creation, BUT, the paperdoll has the current base stat, and the costs for bumping each stat by one displayed. (1,2,3 or 4). You would not be able to pump a stat to levels otherwise not available since those would require 5 build points.

Simple, clean, very intuitive and would address the concern many are voicing over there feelings about "wasting" time until they can play the game. It would retain much of the current structure of incentives.

I'm all for fixing it in a way that eliminates or mitigates the inherent problems in the current setup, your suggestions would accomplish that.

A full respec would be overkill to address this single issue, but that's sort of the idea... a full respec addresses many issues, including this one.

[Zenako]

isn't 3 the current cap?

Effectively yes, but you can get 19s and 20s on various races since the racial bonus gets added on top of the base so those races see the cost for raising stats adjusted accordingly.

But having a base 19 or 20 CHA Drow has not broken the game, so having someone who might have not already used level ups to raise their 18 to a 19 or higher would not "break" the balance of the game by allowing characters to hit levels otherwise not obtainable by some race.

[sjwalker1973]

Maybe the reason people are ignoring this argument is that we're talking about DDO here, not Living Greyhawk, etc. In DDO, it is common for 2nd level characters to have +2 items, and 8th level characters to have +5 items. Higher level characters have complete stes of "power 10" weapons (vorpals/banishers/etc.). Casters can routinely do triple digit damage, healers can heal almost that much. DDO is a high powered campaign. Period.

When starting out, it wasn't. In case you weren't around for the launch. They added these things in over time. That's what good MMOs do. They had to introduce a mechanism to allow for higher powered players to create new more powerful characters. Thus the Favor reward for the 32 pt build. They can't make it available for every Joe Schmoe that starts a trial account.

[sjwalker1973]

you really don't know what decisions they made, the idea is based off "k everyone is done with the game quickly, what do we do to get them to keep play, i got it, 32point builds!!

- In case you forgot (since I've been around since pre release and remember quite well what was going on during that time), the rate of new content development was very slow. They were mainly concerned about fixing bugs, crashes, system performance, etc. There was very little endgame raiding content available. This favor reward gave players something to develop over time so that they could get ready for the next endgame content MOD that came out. And also gave a nice carrot for those that stuck with the game through the first year or so of some major lag issues, and downtime issues. I can tell you from experience that Khyber was a lag fest for a long time.

now a few years later, their is alot more content, and the MAJORITY of players have them.. what's the point it making people get hazed, as new players feel they are.. hense we just got a NPE (abit bugged but still got one) it's incoming subscriptions that are going to improve your game (see more money)..

- Exactly. No offense to the OP, but the OP sounds like someone who just started the game and is having trouble getting groups to adventure in. Don't zerg the game. The uber players tend to spot out the bad players and don't group with them anymore if possible. The reason being, especially for casters and clerics, is the amount of resources needed to heal, buff, contain the certain player zerging around and trying to control the aggro generated by the zerger. I suggest that you take your queue from the experienced players until you've LEARNED the game and how to play your toon before attempting to automatically zerg upon starting DDO. Just a suggestion, take it as you wish.


See I can edit your post too :P

In all seriousness, they'll never change the favor mechanism. It's been in place for over 2 years. A 32 Pt build only gives you 6 extra points to spend on stats for a normal race (non drow). The points provided may give you an extra +2 or +1 to your stats. An extra +1 mod to your prime attribute isn't going to be noticed until MUCH later in the game in the higher level endgame and elite level content. And for most, it would only matter for pure casters who are pushing their spell penetration, focus, and mana to their maximum potentials. Just my opinion. And I'm still having fun with my original 28 point cleric build. The first toon I ever built.

[Fenrisulven6]

They can't make it available for every Joe Schmoe that starts a trial account.

Why not?

[sjwalker1973]

Why not?

Because

[Fenrisulven6]

LOL.

But why because?

[sjwalker1973]

Because Turbine said so. There. :P