Noob thinks 32 point builds should be for all.

[Deadz]

Let me get this right. You´re complaining because others are doing the work for your favor grinding. (nowadays simply levelling a toon to Level 11-12 is pretty much a 1750 guarantee....BTW)

I´m starting to believe you´d complain if people join your favor runs and YOU did all the work also.


Which leads me to conclude your gonna complain no matter what.

Start twisting whats been said in this thread a bit and you´ll officially be a member of the ........ (avoiding infraction points.....) ..... Power Gamer, Warforged and something else hating club.

Your comments lead me to believe that you have nothing to add so are starting to result to name calling, nice!

I don't think i'm twisting anything at all, you can say whatever you wish..

I think my point is pretty strait forward, that i personally feel that it's starts the game off on a negative for a new player, and a better mechanic for 1750 rewards could be in place, and a lot of people with 32 points seem to agree, as well as disagree, which there is nothing wrong with at all.

I personally said "i have to do what to start building characters with the same starting points as everyone else? WHAAA????" and know a lot of newish players say the same thing. You can read through the thread, see the give and take nature of the conversation on the subject..

People seem to get very worked up over this video game..

[redoubt]

The problem is that it rewards the person, not the character. This is entirely different than the way most games work, and there is a reason for that.

Most console games have you unlock new and more powerful things. That also rewards the player. So I do not see this as different than the way "Most" games work.

How many people would play chess, if there were some rule like once you have won 100 games, you can thereafter move a pawn like a bishop for one move in any game. Even if you are playing against a new player who wasn't involved in any of those first 100 games.

In that instance you are playing against someone else. We are not playing against each other. (No, PvP doesn't count, this is a team game.)

Or, we could have a Pac Man tournament where last year's leading scorers get an extra second of invulnerability after eating the big dot in the corner. Anyone new coming in would have to do without. How many new players would join that tournament?

Same comment as above. You are trying to use justification based on games where you play against each other. But, because we play together, as a team, your comparision falls short and is irrelevant.

You might want an advantage over new players, but many of us would rather have a more equal playing field... Nobody here (except perhaps you) is whining about anything. I have 32 point builds. I just think it is asinine that I get bonuses over new players like deadz just because I have been around longer.

The playing field is equal. ANYONE can get the favor.

Do you really think you should go to your brand new job and get the same pay and benifits as someone who has been there three years longer than you? Of course you do not, you are a smart person. You understand that you have to earn it.

Same here. True, its a game and not a job in the real world. But why is it so bad that you play the game a bit to unlock something more powerful?

[Thoreg]

Again, if it was something i could earn on that character i'd have no problem, but instead, i'm spending time on these favor runs being in quests i have no business being let in the front door, collecting loot i shouldn't be able to loot, and basically just playing follow the leader.. It's not about earning it, when most people who power through favor aren't doing any of the "work" you seem to think we should all do.

What are you talking about?!? You are complaining because some people are doing everything for you and you're just sitting in the quest with your hands in your pockets?
Jeez! I would've loved to have someone to run through a quest while I just sat there. No I had to put up my LFM and hope some others needed the quest too. Dude you need to get realistic, if what you wanted happened. There would be a mass exodus of players from DDO, especially me. So don't hold your breathe.

[RazorrX]

Again, if it was something i could earn on that character i'd have no problem, but instead, i'm spending time on these favor runs being in quests i have no business being let in the front door, collecting loot i shouldn't be able to loot, and basically just playing follow the leader.. It's not about earning it, when most people who power through favor aren't doing any of the "work" you seem to think we should all do.

I personally bled for every favor point. It was not until i had about 50 or so left that I ran back to a few low level quests and hammered them out. I never stood at a door and let others get it for me. Most times I simply had not run elite on upper level quests so we went and did those.

So you can actually Earn your favor or have someone earn it for you.

But either way . . . you should earn it.

[Deadz]

What are you talking about?!? You are complaining because some people are doing everything for you and you're just sitting in the quest with your hands in your pockets?
Jeez! I would've loved to have someone to run through a quest while I just sat there. No I had to put up my LFM and hope some others needed the quest too. Dude you need to get realistic, if what you wanted happened. There would be a mass exodus of players from DDO, especially me. So don't hold your breathe.

-that what a favor run is, they happen all the time on all servers, besides xp weekends they are going on every night, most people power to 1750 doing these 'runs' in the current state of ddo..

And i doubt your mass exodus of players would occur, in fact, i know of a few players myself who would come to DDO, and others "vets included" have said the same thing.. but you are 100% entitled to your opinion.

[Deadz]

I personally bled for every favor point. It was not until i had about 50 or so left that I ran back to a few low level quests and hammered them out. I never stood at a door and let others get it for me. Most times I simply had not run elite on upper level quests so we went and did those.

So you can actually Earn your favor or have someone earn it for you.

But either way . . . you should earn it.

I think i'm talking myself in circles now.. but yeah i get where your coming from.. how about i'll report back AFTER i get to 1750 and we can all see if i have the same opinion..

[Girevik]

(nowadays simply levelling a toon to Level 11-12 is pretty much a 1750 guarantee....BTW)

No it isn't. Not by a long shot. Not if you actually earn your way to 11-12 without coasting in on the coat-tails of "openers".

What I mean is, if you run quests on Normal+Hard+Elite you end up with a lot more experience, but the same favor, as the Elite only player.

As an example, my Cleric is level 13.5 or so, and only has 1350 or so favor. The group I run with has characters in the 15's and none of them have hit 1750 yet (on those characters).

And OUR GOALS are usually based on earning favor. Not so much the 1750, but the smaller house favor marks. That means we very rarely repeat quests for which we already have the favor. We almost never run quests where somebody doesn't need the favor.

Is is possible to hit 1750 by 11-12, of course. Is it guaranteed, not by a long shot.

[Aganazer]

1750, the only way to get a full respec, and only once. Do it Turbine. Do it. Make us happy.

[Dexxaan]

No it isn't. Not by a long shot. Not if you actually earn your way to 11-12 without coasting in on the coat-tails of "openers".

What I mean is, if you run quests on Normal+Hard+Elite you end up with a lot more experience, but the same favor, as the Elite only player.

As an example, my Cleric is level 13.5 or so, and only has 1350 or so favor. The group I run with has characters in the 15's and none of them have hit 1750 yet (on those characters).

And OUR GOALS are usually based on earning favor. Not so much the 1750, but the smaller house favor marks. That means we very rarely repeat quests for which we already have the favor. We almost never run quests where somebody doesn't need the favor.

Is is possible to hit 1750 by 11-12, of course. Is it guaranteed, not by a long shot.

OK so if you do things in a selective manner maybe it´s not guaranteed, but allow me to compare today´s favor grind to the mod 4 was it (Cap at Level 10) Favor grind to get 1750.

Holy hell, you had to pretty much run every quest out there (and on Elite) to hit 1750, nowadays you can pick and choose which ones you want, some on hard most on elite to be more effective, but the word "grind" is almost not applicable.

[Borror0]

Most console games have you unlock new and more powerful things.

Not that this is an important argument of yours, but you do know this is an appeal to the majority?

Anyway, posts like HJH's are missing the point. It's NOT about power level, because the difference between 28 point buy and 32 point buy is not big enough to be problematic in that aspect. The problem is that it is a reward that is not retrospective. It rewards you for playing less characters, and that is not a good thing nor is it fun.

People's solution to "roll a non-stat dependent character and grind it" exposes the problem.

How can anyone reliable think that this is more fun than to play the game and just gain 1750 favor whenever you feel like it, on whatever character you'd like?

[HumanJHawkins]

The playing field is equal. ANYONE can get the favor.

Do you really think you should go to your brand new job and get the same pay and benifits as someone who has been there three years longer than you? Of course you do not, you are a smart person. You understand that you have to earn it.

Same here. True, its a game and not a job in the real world. But why is it so bad that you play the game a bit to unlock something more powerful?

No. It's not equal. Two players decide to roll a new character. One is a vertean and the other is new to the game. They both start what is the equivalent of a new game and end up running together. Not only does the vertean have experience, quest knowledge, and access to plenty of twink gear, but we are going to add insult to injury by giving him yet another bonus over the new guy.

How is that fun for the new guy?

[Fenrisulven6]

We all had to work for our 1750 favor, so should the new players.

I thought the argument was "the road to 1750 is easy for newbies", not "we had to bleed to get 1750 so they should too"

[Strakeln]

Not going to read whole thread and dont know if this have been mentioned earlier... They could just made so that 28 point build would have "special" tome as a reward that would make them essentially to 32 point build after reaching 1750 favor.

This would mean that your "grinding" 28 point would become 32 point build (and all builds after that just like now) and you still had reason to get that 1750 favor.

My latest 32-point has +2 or +3 tomes in every stat. That +2 tome for my original 28-point? Not so hot.

[Strakeln]

I think 32 point builds should be harder to get. Also, I think that you should only be able to use it ONLY on the Toon that you actually got the favor on. So if you do want a 32 point toon, you would have to reroll the toon that you got it on.

While i highly dislike this idea, it is a fair system, and one I would support more than the current system.

[branmakmuffin]

The problem is that it rewards the person, not the character. This is entirely different than the way most games work, and there is a reason for that.

How many people would play chess, if there were some rule like once you have won 100 games, you can thereafter move a pawn like a bishop for one move in any game. Even if you are playing against a new player who wasn't involved in any of those first 100 games.

Or, we could have a Pac Man tournament where last year's leading scorers get an extra second of invulnerability after eating the big dot in the corner. Anyone new coming in would have to do without. How many new players would join that tournament?

Those are inapt analogies because DDO is not a player-vs.-player game, like chess or a Pac Man toe-ornament.

You might want an advantage over new players, but many of us would rather have a more equal playing field... Nobody here (except perhaps you) is whining about anything. I have 32 point builds. I just think it is asinine that I get bonuses over new players like deadz just because I have been around longer.

It's not because you've been around longer, it's because you've played more. I've been around longer than you, and I am not even close to unlocking 32-points, especially in light of the fact that I deleted and re-rolled my highest favor character (my current highest favor character isn't even at 400 yet).

[Hafeal]

I agree with the OP and, as has been well put, 32 pt builds was a mistake as a reward at 1750. It showed a lack of imagination and game relevance as to the character you had spent time playing. The +2 tome made a difference. Perhaps NOT getting a +2 tome with a 32 point character would level the field.

That being said, the stats don't mean much. Turbine continues to endorse it because they have a lot of other things to worry about. I would hope when the revamp the favor system at some point this will be fixed.

As for those who wallow in the "I did it so you need to" crowd, I agree a "reward" of some type would be appropriate but it should be a different reward - perhaps a unique item or attribute for your character who has "earned" this xp.

If you really want to "reward" an account (not just a character) on a server, 32 points should be tied to something like 12 consecutive months of subscription. I believe that would be a more appropriate showing of appreciation.

[Uska]

i hope noone lets you raise children, lol

I have kids proably older then you are and they agree with me to heck with whiners earn it.

[Uska]

tip for you, you are honestly just making yourself look petty and childish by inserting "you are a whiner" into a very good debate about the pro's and con's of making a change like this to the game. Which, imo, won't really do much more then be a nice debate, except for that child saying "you are a whiner" every other post..

Seriously, try to be constructive instead of childish, it might due you some good in life.
You currently look the fool.

and you look like a whiner look it up hmm because thats all you are doing jr.

[Xalted_Vol]

People are not learning anything sitting at the door while the 16th lvl guy clears the dungeon on elite so you get your favor. It should be changed and we should all start out the same.A new player should not have to find out he only had 28 points to build his first gimped 8 lvl wis 5 lvl sorc We should start out on the same playing field some shouldnt get better fertilizer then others one love one love

[Uska]

people Are Not Learning Anything Sitting At The Door While The 16th Lvl Guy Clears The Dungeon On Elite So You Get Your Favor. It Should Be Changed And We Should All Start Out The Same.:da New Player Should Not Have To Find Out He Only Had 28 Points To Build His First Gimped 8 Lvl Wis 5 Lvl Sorc We Should Start Out On The Same Playing Field Some Shouldnt Get Better Fertilizer Then Others One Love One Love

Umm What?