Fighter Stalwart Defender Preview

[Borror0]

On the other hand, when you compare this PRC to the Siberys one...

We get extra Intimidate. We get more AC. We get 6 DR/- that may stack with Stoneskin.

All in all, the balance is not that bad and at least our first tier does not horribly suck.

[Riot]

I can pretty much guarantee you the DR won't stack.
And that's all good.

My thing is, look at the kickers to the Tier 3 ENH.

Defender of Siberys III: Superior Defensive Stance
You may expend a Paladin armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +4 Sacred bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +3 Sacred bonus on all saves, a +4 Dodge bonus to Armor Class, and produce 200% more hate with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move at half speed.

Defender of Siberys III: Glorious Stand
You may expend a turn attempt to make a glorious stand against your enemies. For a short duration of time, you gain DR 20/epic, take reduced damage from elemental and negative energy, receive double healing from positive energy, and are immune to secondary effects of attacks such as 'wounding' or 'vorpal'. Each time you take damage, you gain the effects of a Cure Light Wounds spell.

Compared too

Stalwart Defender III: Superior Defensive Stance
You may expend a Fighter armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +4 Competence bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +3 Competence bonus on all saves, a +4 Dodge bonus to Armor Class, and produce 200% more hate with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move at half speed.

Where's our Glorious stand???

What the Hay Beavis?

[Borror0]

Where's our Glorious stand???

In my book, +6 Intimidate and +2-3 AC > Glorious Stand.

But, I am known to have an hate of activated abilities.

[Riot]

Here's what I'm thinking/wondering.

Turn Undead activations have like a zero recycle. That is to say it's very fast.
And with boosts you can get alot of them.

Having a semi perm 20 epic DR is pretty darn tasty.
Especially if it's not interfereing with your Armor Boosts or lowering their frequency.

And if you remember the old formula from way back.
1 AC = 5 DR?

then 20 DR > 3 AC.

The +6 Intimidate is not that big a kicker in this comparison. Unless they outrageously boost incommoning mobs Intimidate scrores, when is the last time you had trouble intimidating anything? I can name one mob, On Elite, that gives me trouble. And it's not even a Mob I typically go against.

[Falcone]

It's not a direct comparison, but I think your Glorious Stand is the 10 extra feats you have over the paladin by level 20. You probably have room to take a couple to increase your shield blocking DR for example. Differentiation between classes, power of different types and sources, especially at the highest levels, is a good thing.

[Angelus_dead]

It's not a direct comparison, but I think your Glorious Stand is the 10 extra feats you have over the paladin by level 20. You probably have room to take a couple to increase your shield blocking DR for example.

Lol, the 10 feats aren't a counterbalance for Glorious Stand...

Those 10 feats are already busy counterbalancing Divine Favor, Zeal, Smite Evil, Divine Sacrifice, Exalted Smite, and Divine Grace.

[Riot]

UHh yeah.. what he said...

Feats counter the Paladin class abilities.

We are on Enhancements now. Paladin add on vs. Fighter add on.
and it doesn't quite add up.... In my humble opinion.

[Riot]

So what would make it equal???

Here's an Idea.

Stalwart Defender III: Superior Defensive Stance
You may expend a Fighter armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +4 Competence bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +3 Competence bonus on all saves, a +4 Dodge bonus to Armor Class, 20 DR/epic and produce 200% more hate with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move at half speed.

Basically it gives us the same deal. But at the cost of having it tied to our Action Boosts.

Compared to the Paladin who has a seperate counter for his uses. And will probably be more numerous.

OR

Give us a separate button altogether with the same nubmer of uses as our action boosts. And let it be on it's own timer.

[Borror0]

Turn Undead activations have like a zero recycle. That is to say it's very fast.
And with boosts you can get alot of them.

True, but if they do they are loosing on their Divine Righteousness Charges and their Divine Might III turns.

Don't forget that.

And if you remember the old formula from way back.
1 AC = 5 DR?

Remember how much damage per swing mobs were doing compared to now?
then 20 DR > 3 AC.

The +6 Intimidate is not that big a kicker in this comparison. Unless they outrageously boost incommoning mobs Intimidate scrores, when is the last time you had trouble intimidating anything? I can name one mob, On Elite, that gives me trouble. And it's not even a Mob I typically go against.

I was thinking possibly raid bosses (ie they can't get it, we can).

Stalwart Defender III: Superior Defensive Stance
You may expend a Fighter armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +4 Competence bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +3 Competence bonus on all saves, a +4 Dodge bonus to Armor Class, 20 DR/epic and produce 200% more hate with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move at half speed.

What about just making our DR stacking DR?

[Riot]

I would still argue the formula still holds true.

Sure it could stack, +14 DR would be the same deal. 20 total with sword and board.

Or the starting nubmer of uses could be lower. Like 2 plus any exta action boosts. But make it unhinged from the armor boost.

Either way, I think the end of the fighter line needs a little umphf to be on par with the Paladin line.

[Gratch]

Just tried to figure out AP's on my evada-intimi-ac tank. Kind of lame that only fighters fully burdened with heavy armor get free armor mastery from this PrE. Kind of a secondary kick in the "light-armor" face after DT Armor's "Leather" offering.

I wonder why this PrE needs to favor heavy armor for dex increase, when armor mastery enhancements do not. I'll note the dwarven defender has no abilities that differentiate between armor levels (or requires wearing armor) and even grants the class Uncanny and Improved Uncanny Dodge.

Guess it's a sign that you either need crazy dex and monk levels wearing cloth or heavy armor to have big AC in DDO. At least they changed the Breastplate of Destruction graphics from "ouch ouch, my eyes" to "meh...boring".

[ridleyasy]

It seems to me that alot of peeps are not looking realistically at what this prestige means. First, it seems to cover basically what a dwarven defender was. Standing firm, unmovable force. My concern is moving around in tumble and evasion for sure. I wonder if in def stance, does one retain evasion and if so what does harry think about this? Im sure alot of you dont want to give up tumbling and evasion but to me it just makes as much sense as gravity.

[osirisisis]

in defender 3 is say increase max dex bounce but it doesnt say how much.... any insite?

[baddax]

It seems to me that alot of peeps are not looking realistically at what this prestige means. First, it seems to cover basically what a dwarven defender was. Standing firm, unmovable force. My concern is moving around in tumble and evasion for sure. I wonder if in def stance, does one retain evasion and if so what does harry think about this? Im sure alot of you dont want to give up tumbling and evasion but to me it just makes as much sense as gravity.

What does tumble have to do with evasion?
I think the fact that you can move more freely in your armor ie higher Dex Ac bonus discredits this notion.

Lastly i think many evasion splashes (myself included) would be willing to give up evasion (temporarily) for a 20 epic DR-. After all not all fights are going to require (or even be benifited by)your defensive stance. Any fight where you will need to be mobile running moving and chasing enemies is going to be made more difficult by the movement rate reduction especially since not all mobs are able to be intimidated.

Just like not all fights benifit from a melee having Evasion. If there are few AOE spells then their is really no need for evasion. However for fights such as The shroud part 4and 5 its very benificial.

[Borror0]

Each tier increase your blocking each by +1 and your blocking DR by +2.

[Borror0]

However, the second tier does not increase my MDB when wearing any heavy armor.

[Deathseeker]

However, the second tier does not increase my MDB when wearing any heavy armor.

Is each tier raising your dex bonus on a tower shield...in other words, at tier 3, does the dex bonus get raised on a tower shield by 1 or by 3???

[Borror0]

Is each tier raising your dex bonus on a tower shield...in other words, at tier 3, does the dex bonus get raised on a tower shield by 1 or by 3???

I only had two tiers but the tower shield bonus was fine.

The known issues are saying Stalwart Defender does not apply to WF plating but my heavy armor was buggy as well.

[negative]

The known issues are saying Stalwart Defender does not apply to WF plating but my heavy armor was buggy as well.

Atleast it's buggy for all races Now I don't feel so bad about my planned WF stalwart defender. Also probably means we will see a fix faster.

[Borror0]

Atleast it's buggy for all races Now I don't feel so bad about my planned WF stalwart defender. Also probably means we will see a fix faster.

Yeah. It's proof DDO developers hate all S&B characters, no matter our race. Ever noticed they never gave us a starter shield?