Fighter Stalwart Defender Preview

[Borror0]

So if you have a fig18/monk2, you'll gain +7 AC if you become a Stalwart Defender, while a fig18/pal2 with tower would gain +9.

Right now, the best shield in the game is Levik's defender.

A 18 fighter/2 paladin can raise its Maximum Dexterity Bonus to seven, nine with Stalwart Defender which you only gain out of if you Dex is higher than 24.

Assuming high Dex (but still Str-based):

15 base
+6 item
+4 tome
+1 profane
26

Then, maybe there will be some Exceptional Dexterity II item in M9, for 28 Dex and the +9 Dex modifier. Only elves, drows and halflings could go that high without sacrificing too much, but going non-dwarf represents a loss of 2 AC because it is the only way to hit a MDB of 7 with a Dragontouched fullplate (and it represents a lot of APs!).

Maybe M9 loot will make this possible, but it's only speculation.

Right now, S&B gains as much AC than non-S&B out of Stalwart Defender.

[hcarr]

I like it except its not currently open to non-dwarven fighters as one of the previous threads had suggested. Some clarifications would be great to have on some questions brought up.


the gain in armor class at each lvl I would hope/assume would require you to be in armor of some sort since you put your trust in steel not flesh. If this is the case it would not benifite high dex/wis monk splash characters and wouldnt contribute to even higher ac for these characters. If it required a sheild it would even go farther in closing the gap with twf. The perma dr/ with shield I would hope would stack with current items, enhancements and spells. tier 3 is only one better than current invulnerability dr/-. The size of sheild being used should maybe be considered in the dr/- equation also. larger and heavier the sheild the more dr/- added.

[Angelus_dead]

I had hoped someone else would have posted them by now, because I'm not an expert and don't feel like digging through all those preview threads. But in general, here are the AC potentials for some mod9 characters.

Shared Factors
The following elements are available to any relevant character, and can be ignored.
Deflection: Protection item / SOF
Natural: Ranger buddy
Aura of Good: Pally buddy (Except that Defender Pally has higher aura)
Insight: DT armor or GS weap (Except that TWF builds have more slots to equip weaps)
Dodge Feat
Combat Expertise
Haste
Alchemical Armor
Inspire Heroics
Recitation
Chattering Ring (or DT armor)

Those add up to around 34 (depending on the pally).

Build Contenders
Halfling Fig18/monk2
Halfling Pal18/monk2
Halfling Ran19/monk1
Dwarf Fig20
Dwarf Pal20
The two fighter builds are of interest to this thread.

Fig18/monk2
Halfling

Intentionally using fairly low base stats (and no Litany, GS stat, or alch stat). Higher stats would easily bring more AC.
Dexterity: 12 base + 2 race + 2 enh + 4 stance + 4 tome + 6 item + 4 level = 34 (12 mod)
Wisdom: 12 base + 3 enh + 4 tome + 6 item + 1 level = 26 (8 mod)

AC: 12 dex + 8 wis + 1 monk + 1 size + 4 shield + 8 bracer + 4 icy + 3 defender + 4 stance = 45


Fig20
Dwarf

Shield: +5 mithral tower.
AC: 4 base + 5 magic + 1 alchemical = 10
Dex: 2 base + 2 mith + 3 fighter + 3 defender = 10

Armor: Dragontouched Plate
AC: 10 base + 5 magic = 15
Dex: 1 base + 3 fighter + 3 dwarf + 2 defender = 9

AC: 15 armor + 10 shield + 9 dex + 2 bracer + 3 defender + 4 stance = 43

Conclusion
My result showed the heavy-armored dwarf fighter as 43 non-shared AC, 2 below the unarmored halfling fighter-monk. The dwarf spend mega APs to get that much max dex, and it was also really tough for him him to reach 30 dex to fill it up. Conversely, the halfling could easily get more AC by raising his dexterity or wisdom, either by using higher numbers to start, or putting Exceptional Ability bonuses onto a Green Steel Kama.

And as always, not only does the unarmored character have more AC and Evasion for magical defense, but he's able to TWF for better offensive power.

[moorewr]

I was not attempting to change the intention of the effects, just the details. That suggestion left Intimidate = pull aggro and Diplomacy = shed aggro, just like they currently are in DDO.

Sorry if that seem directed at your suggestion, which makes perfect sense to me. I was aiming at the intentions themselves.

[Borror0]

It's world upside down! AD is calculating AC and I'm talking DPS since yesterday!

Fig18/monk2
Halfling

Intentionally using fairly low base stats (and no Litany, GS stat, or alch stat). Higher stats would easily bring more AC.
Dexterity: 12 base + 2 race + 2 enh + 4 stance + 4 tome + 6 item + 4 level = 34 (12 mod)
Wisdom: 12 base + 3 enh + 4 tome + 6 item + 1 level = 26 (8 mod)

AC: 12 dex + 8 wis + 1 monk + 1 size + 4 shield + 8 bracer + 4 icy + 3 defender + 4 stance = 45

There are a few things that don't really belong, but it's canceled out by using abilities so low.

Using the same level distribution but using different distribution stats (12/18/14/11/14/8):

• Dexterity: 18 base + 2 enh + 4 tome + 6 item + 4 level = 34 (12 mod)
• Wisdom: 14 base + 4 tome + 6 item = 24 (7 mod)

AC: 12 dex + 7 wis + 1 size + 4 shield + 8 bracer + 4 icy + 3 defender + 4 stance = 43

Before someone says this build has no DPS, it has better DPS than any S&B fighter and will make up for his lower Str thanks to Halfling Guile if he needs to switch to DPS mode.

Fig20
Dwarf

Shield: +5 mithral tower.
AC: 4 base + 5 magic + 1 alchemical = 10
Dex: 2 base + 2 mith + 3 fighter + 3 defender = 10

Armor: Dragontouched Plate
AC: 10 base + 5 magic = 15
Dex: 1 base + 3 fighter + 3 dwarf + 2 defender = 9

AC: 15 armor + 10 shield + 9 dex + 2 bracer + 3 defender + 4 stance = 43

Here, all is fine, except I want to mention that this represents a huge sacrifice in terms of APs and either a lot of rare gear which is not included in the 18 fighter/2 monk's breakdown (increasing the monk's AC higher than listed above) or a great investment of creation points in Dexterity, which is not really a good investment.

Most likely, a good S&B will be one to three point lower than this.

[nbhs275]

If this is allowed for non-fighter dwarfs, any hints on what the requirements will be like (besides I'm assuming the dragonmarks)?

Though Dwarf fighters could get what, +8 dex to FP? YEA, fitting a 28 dex into FP is pretty **** funny.

[Angelus_dead]

a great investment of creation points in Dexterity, which is not really a good investment.

That's a good side point:

The introduction of this specialty gives further motivation for adding respec, because it provides yet another source of increased max dex that could not have been anticipated when existing characters were created.

[Venar]

Mmm, i thought more about it, and its not that great, considering the defensive stance will be turned-off 98% of the time. Since only the DR increase without the stance, very little point going over tier 1.

[Auran82]

That's a good side point:

The introduction of this specialty gives further motivation for adding respec, because it provides yet another source of increased max dex that could not have been anticipated when existing characters were created.

Which is the major reason I am in favor of some kind of respec, this game has way too many permanent decisions which can affect a character (and are made *very* early in a characters life)

Imagine if they had decided to keep the lawful requirement that the original prc had.

[Angelus_dead]

Mmm, i thought more about it, and its not that great, considering the defensive stance will be turned-off 98% of the time.

Well, for some quests it will be on much longer, like a one-room raid on the lines of VOD. In a quest where you can stay in the same place, the movement penalty doesn't hurt much. Plus there might be other ways you can keep it going longer, like maybe full-speed Tumble.

However, the problem you indicate is probably a real one, and that's why in my own suggestion for Dwarven Defender, there was no maximum limit on the number of times you can activate the mode. It would have turned on any time you stood still long enough.

Since only the DR increase without the stance, very little point going over tier 1.

There are other AC benefits and stuff.

[johnrbimmer]

Considering that an Elf ranger can't take both Arcane Archer and Tempest, the answer is no.

In addition, repeating an announcement that some people may have missed:
You can't take Stalwart Defender if you're a non-fighter dwarf. That is a feature that is being strongly considered for the future, but it won't be in module 9.

Quick question - what is a "non-fighter"? Is a dwarven 16 ranger, 2 fighter, 2 monk a non-fighter or can that character get access to the dwarven Stalwart Defender? What about a dwarven 14 paladin, 4 fighter, 2 rogue - could that character get SD and one of the Paly PRes?

[vyvy3369]

Quick question - what is a "non-fighter"? Is a dwarven 16 ranger, 2 fighter, 2 monk a non-fighter or can that character get access to the dwarven Stalwart Defender? What about a dwarven 14 paladin, 4 fighter, 2 rogue - could that character get SD and one of the Paly PRes?

Take a closer look at the prereqs: Fighter Levels are required for each tier (6/12/18).

[Angelus_dead]

can that character get access to the dwarven Stalwart Defender?

One more time:

There is NO dwarven Stalwart Defender

[query]

Glad I shelved my Dw Fighter w a splash of bard to potentially reroll after all!

Overlooking the fighter capstone ATM, was it computed better to have a F 20 Dwarf than a F 18 P 2 Dwarf?

[Braegan]

The Stalwart Defender is based on the Dwarven Defender prestige class from pen and paper, and may end up available to dwarves (similar to how elves can acquire the Arcane Archer prestige enhancement line). The various Defender prestige classes require a Lawful alignment - a restriction we've waived in DDO.

Please reconsider this. This is a really nice step towards helping S&B out without splashing monk levels to attain a high ac. Do not make it dwarf only.

[TreknaQudane]

Please reconsider this. This is a really nice step towards helping S&B out without splashing monk levels to attain a high ac. Do not make it dwarf only.

I think you may have misread that. Fighters will be able to get Stalwart Defender. Dwarves may also be able to get it without needing the Fighter levels, just like how Elves can become Arcane Archers without Ranger levels.

[Braegan]

I think you may have misread that. Fighters will be able to get Stalwart Defender. Dwarves may also be able to get it without needing the Fighter levels, just like how Elves can become Arcane Archers without Ranger levels.

Quite possible as it is almost 5 am! If so thats really good stuff depending on durations and cooldowns but a positive step towards ac meainging something.

[TreknaQudane]

Quite possible as it is almost 5 am! If so thats really good stuff depending on durations and cooldowns but a positive step towards ac meainging something.

I'd be quite happy if Dwarves do indeed get the ability, or perhaps a reduced version of it since there is no racial boost to base any stances off of.

[joeuhuh]

it prob would be limited to lvl 2 stalward defender for non fighter dwarves jsut like arcane archer only goes up to +4 arrows for elves and +5 for rangers

i think a extra twinkie for this class would be good say add 5 percent to heals per lvl of stalwart defender nothin spectacular but a small bonus because i think the kensai is prety hot comparitavly especialy the third tier of defender is exactly the same as tier 1-2 while the third tier of kensai is prety darn spiffy--another twinkie i like the idea of would be to add some point to mobility like u gethalf ur mobility bonus even when not tumbling -- dodge bonus granted this way can not to exceed half your dex modifyer that way if u spent 10 ap and had 30 dex u could get 5 armour from spending ap on those useless mobility enahncments -- if u were one of the few proud fighters that has dex as well as str this would be spectacular but most fighters should be able to get some benefit (2-3 ac) from something like this anyways

defender1 --1 ac 2 intim 2dr and a stance u cant keep up with party in

kensia 1--1 atack 1/2 dmg 2/4 seeker extra boost 1 to combat feat dcs

defenderII-- total 2 ac 4 intim 4 dr a stance u cant keep up with party in

kensaiII-- 2 atack 2/4dmg 4/8 seeker 2 extra boost 2 to combat feat dc and clikie that adds to str for more atack and dmg

defender 3-- total 3 ac 6 intim dr6 and a stance that is nice but u move at half speed and would only be good for standin around at raid end fights

kensai3-- 2 to atack 2/4 dmg 4/8 seeker +1 to crit range --WHOA-- clikei to add to str +4 atack and dmg 3 extra uses of boosts +3 to combat feats

the speed factor of the stance makes it very unweildy as u cannot (from the start of the quest) intimidate the end guy the barbarains and rangers are fighting because ur 5 minutes behind the party-- things that add to your speed barb run acrobat speed are 10 percent so why not make it -35 percent to run speed defender1 -25 run speed for defender 2 and -15 percent run speed for tier 3 that way it wil still be a pain in the arse but something thats usable

as a side note--also i dont know if pnp rules actualy say or not but why cant dodge be taken more than once that would help fighters ac with the extra feats they get thers used to be a enhancemtn fighters dodge that disapeared when they changed the enhancemnts ystem way back when

[Inspire]

Fantastic,

I think that with a couple minor changes to Huskarl including; grinding for a +3 tome(+4) and taking a Stat increase into Dexterity at level 18, I think I will actually enjoy playing a Pure Fighter.

Thanks for the bonuses to saves for the most part, this will allow me to finally ditch Resilience for a different combat feat in the future, toggling between; Resilience, Combat Expertise, and Power Attack was a hassel, and Resilience almost completly eliminated his melee effectivness.

Thanks again for the information El.