Wizard/Rogue Question for the experts

[ariel7]

I'm working on leveling a WF 14/2 wizard/rogue and am only at a whopping level 3 with it (been doing other stuff)

Sifting through pages and pages of posts in the forums I came across the argument of level order, and how many of rogue to take. You can take wiz at one, and have fewer skills with 4 skill points in them, but more points to put into the ones you really want later, and so on.

Trying to keep up OL, DD, Search, Spot, UMD, Hide, Move silently, Balance and Jump is...well an exercise in futility on a 14/2. Just too many cross class skills even for maxed out skill points. I was thinking though (usually where I make mistakes) since I'm not huge on the level 8 spells, and since I will miss out on wizard capstone anyways, why not take more rogue levels? Making sure I at least have level 11 of wizard means I have reconstruct and greater heroism...

so what about a self healing tricked out rogue skills and max int for a wizard, and MOST of the good spells.

Thing is, I know the extra 2-3 levels of rogue would give more or less only terrific amounts of skill points, more sneak attack damage and possibly uncanny dodge, but I think it would be a pretty good rogue with only some different abilities. In my head, it's a blast to play, but then again, I'm working on 6 new characters at once...so...lol

[Noctus]

You wint be meleeing anyway, so by taking more rogue levels you just get more skillpoints, while severly hindering your casting capabilities. Especially Spell Penetration which is very important (especially as the next mod will have many Monsters with SR) and directly linked to the number of Wizard level you have.

Trying to keep up OL, DD, Search, Spot, UMD, Hide, Move silently, Balance and Jump is...well an exercise in futility on a 14/2

A 14/2 is a wizard who can do traps. So forget Hide, Move Silently, Balance and Jump afther you invested the obligatory 4 points at creation.Also Spot is too expensive to keep up, but you can do without it. Remember where the traps are, or let the Meatshield find them.

You have 6 (or 7 Skillpoints with a +2 INT tome) to spend. Max out Search, Disable, Concentration while leveling.Raise Open Lock, but it doesnt need to maxed out all the time. Raise UMD when you take your 2nd rogue level. And then you will have enough extra skillpoints through raised INT to keep it maxed.

Sifting through pages and pages of posts in the forums I came across the argument of level order, and how many of rogue to take. You can take wiz at one, and have fewer skills with 4 skill points in them, but more points to put into the ones you really want later, and so on.

In some old thread i did the level-by-level math and showed the guy who wouldnt believe me, that the only reason to not take Rogue 1st is if you are not interested in doing traps, just in some special skills. If you want to do traps (and value skill ranks in secondary skills as Balance, Jump, haggle, at more than zero) you will always be better of with taking your Rogue level 1st.

Making sure I at least have level 11 of wizard means I have reconstruct and greater heroism...

Dont do that. Your DCs will be quiet lower which will be annoying. But more important is that every monster with spell resistance will be nearly immune to your spells.

A 9 Rogue / 11 Wizard split can be a nice character, but this is a Rogue with some spells, not a Wizard with trapskills. You wont be able to fill the groupslot of an arcane caster, which as a 2/18 you could do.

[ariel7]

Thank you very much, Noctus. Good points...I usually end up trying to do too much on a build.

[kamimitsu]

I'm doing a similar build, but perhaps for a very different function. I'm working on a soloing Shadow-mage type. WF, 14/2. I'm maxing Hide, MS, Search, and Disable. Leftovers go into Spot (for seeing hidden monsters), then OL (you can always try again on OL). I'm skipping concentration, and *hoping* that quicken will take care of situations where it might be an issue. Took rogue at 1 and will take another rogue level at 9 or 10. At high levels (when I know my Hide/MS/Search/Disable/Spot are good enough, I might spend a few points on Jump.

[muffinlad]

I have found that with a the jump spell, putting points into OL that you would have put into jump, makes more sense (for me). Even though I can keep trying again, it is worth it to not have to.

As an aside

If you are not going to START with a level in Rogue, you might as well play a Wizard/Monk, because it will be hard to keep up in core rogue skills.

muffintrapsmith

[Angelus_dead]

Trying to keep up OL, DD, Search, Spot, UMD, Hide, Move silently, Balance and Jump is...well an exercise in futility on a 14/2.

1. Remember that your intelligence will go up with time, so you'll earn more skillpoints later. (It would be slightly advantageous to delay a rogue level until after your int goes up)

2. Even a lot of pure rogues don't have that many skills! You don't need them all. The only important things are Open, Disable, Search, and maybe UMD and Concentration (or Diplomacy). As someone else mentioned, learning Jump skills is silly for someone who has the Jump spell.

[Monkey_Archer]

Assuming you are building a caster, not a melee/rogue type....
Currently you will want lvl 7 spells (at least 13wiz)
For mod 9 to get lvl 9 spells you need 17 wiz...
There are generally 3 options...

(mod 9 build in parenthesis)

1) 1Rogue/15Wiz (1/19) - Basically a wizard that can do traps and maybe umd and/or open locks. (or other skill if you dont want these specifically) Enough spell pen to do almost anything a pure wiz can do.

2) 2Rogue/14Wiz (2/18) - Same as above but with evasion and a bit more skill points. More survivable but wont have lvl 8 spells (mod 9 you will get all level spells anyway)

3) 3Rogue/13Wiz (3/17)- Same as above, but even more skill points (maybe enough to get a decent balance,jump or something). This is where your spell pen will start lacking though and you will start seeing spell penetration fail checks...

Any more then 3 rogue levels and you will miss out on the most important spells for a caster (finger, dancing ball, mass hold, all the fun stuff) and your spell pen will not be enough to do anything but cast a few weak firewalls.
Like noctus said.. that is a rouge with some neat spells.

After mod 9 a 4th or 5th rogue level may or may not be a good idea... wont know untill it comes out.

For an idea, mine is a Drow 13wiz/2rogue/1barb with all the right equipment
Stats (Base)
Str:22 (14)
Dex:24 (14)
Con:20 (12)
Int:36 (22)
Wis:10 (10)
Cha:10 (10)

282 hp
1476 sp

can rage to 32 strength 34 con over 400 hp

Drawbacks are that his spell pen is not quite enough (even though i took both feats and all enhancements) and he doesnt have as much sp as a pure wiz

Biggest drawback is that he gets denied by lots of pugs looking for a "real" caster

I have heard good things about a finesse wiz/rogue using assorted rapiers

[miceelf88]

A little ot, but I really find the wiz 18/ rogue 2 build one of the toughest to level up. most other builds I can solo to about 8 or so with very little pain, but my wiz rogue really needs a group. At low levels, very little melee capability, and not as many sp as a sorc means a whole lot of quests will be above my pay grade.

[Phidius]

A little ot, but I really find the wiz 18/ rogue 2 build one of the toughest to level up. most other builds I can solo to about 8 or so with very little pain, but my wiz rogue really needs a group. At low levels, very little melee capability, and not as many sp as a sorc means a whole lot of quests will be above my pay grade.

I found that getting to level 3 was very expensive in terms of consumables, as you can't take Weapon Finesse until then. However, it got a lot easier after that.

Charm Person is pretty awesome at low levels - just exercise caution when building your army, as they tend to break at the most inconvenient times. By the time Charm Person stops being effective, you will have Wall of Fire and will begin changing your tactics

I ended up deleting my 14/2 Wiz/Rog, but am anxiously awaiting Mod 9 to get Precious his 2nd rogue level.

[weyoun]

I had a 14/2. Could do all the traps in the game. Deleted cause she was boring and the rogue skills were rarely needed at end game (raids).

[Narwe]

I went with human for my wiz/rogue. This allowed taking weapon finesse for those early levels when fighting is part of surviving and an extra skill point per level. Now that he is level 5 and 22 base intel, he gets 9 skill points. That helps keep those rogue skills maxxed. I will probably exchange out of weapon finesse and the sneak attack enhancements and concentrate on being a caster / trapsmith from this point on.

[Nevthial]

A little ot, but I really find the wiz 18/ rogue 2 build one of the toughest to level up. most other builds I can solo to about 8 or so with very little pain, but my wiz rogue really needs a group. At low levels, very little melee capability, and not as many sp as a sorc means a whole lot of quests will be above my pay grade.

I found it to be very easy to level up once I got evasion. Charm everything, kill the named , rinse & repeat. That's for quests & explorer areas. Explorer areas can be fast run and you will cap out before everything is done leaving you with enough points to cap again at 20th in from as little time as 30 minutes to a few days when Mod 9 is released.