The Monster. 12 Fighter / 6 ranger / 2 monk

[Aaxeyu]

The other thing that is going to get you in trouble is counting in Fighter Haste Boost and claiming "umatched" DPS. I have also never seen the duration of power surge listed anywhere officially (could be 20s could be 1 min who knows).

The truth is haste boost lasts 20 seconds, takes a few seconds to activate, and is only good for the actual time your swinging and hitting mobs. So, the best case is you hit the boost while running up to a single mob with a lot of hit points and can stand there for 18s and hit them. The typical case is you are fighting several mobs, you lost time in between moving/chasing them etc... and get even less actual time with it.

I would say you would be very lucky to get 15s per boost of actual swinging and hitting mobs per boost on average.

So 8 x 15s is 2 minutes per shrine. I would estimate on average most quests go about 15-20 minutes per shrine so you are looking at about 1/7 to 1/10 of the time you can claim the haste boost. So at best you should weight your DPS numbers 6/7 without haste boost + 1/7 with haste boost.

The nice thing about Rangers is they will get 10% speed boost + extra offhand attack +ram's might +14 damage to 5 FE and all of those are constant for every minute (minus maybe ram's around beholders). It requires the least amount of up keep, you don't have to time out and spread out any boosts, you pretty much show up and start swinging.

I really think the powersurge will last atleast 1 min. It's a defining ability of the kensai after all.. It will probably be as the rogues showtime.
Activating hasteboost takes 1 sec tops, and if you're good you can time it well. Gonna have quickdraw at level 20 and then it's almost no downtime from using boosts.

In an avarage quest you don't need high dps for trash mobs, this build is best where it matters, the bosses. The trashmobs are called trashmobs for a reason.

Don't forget that I also have favored enemies, tempest and rams. plus extra damage from fighter and some seeker.

[Aaxeyu]

What are your stats now and tomes already used?

I've used a +2 str tome, +2 dex tome, +2 int tome and +1 wis tome.

[Aaxeyu]

I would love to see the math for this calc.

edit: Nm spotted them!

I can post more calcs later, but I'm enjoying a +30% exp weekend with my friends atm:P

[Josh]

Yawn.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I've used a +2 str tome, +2 dex tome, +2 int tome and +1 wis tome.

From your post:

Str 38 (18 base + 6 item + 4 tome + 5 levels + 3 enhancements +2 Rams might)
Dex 26 (15 base + 3 tome + 6 item + 2 enhancements)
Con 24 (14 base + 2 tome + 6 item + 2 Enhancements)
Int 14 (8 base + 2 tome)
Wis 20 (10 base + 6 item + 3 tome + 1 Monk)
Cha 6 (6 base)

Thats:
1 +4 tome
2 +3 tomes
2 +2 tomes

This build's dps math is purely imaginary. I wouldnt get so excited about MOD 9 performance just yet.

[Aaxeyu]

From your post:

Str 38 (18 base + 6 item + 4 tome + 5 levels + 3 enhancements +2 Rams might)
Dex 26 (15 base + 3 tome + 6 item + 2 enhancements)
Con 24 (14 base + 2 tome + 6 item + 2 Enhancements)
Int 14 (8 base + 2 tome)
Wis 20 (10 base + 6 item + 3 tome + 1 Monk)
Cha 6 (6 base)

Thats:
1 +4 tome
2 +3 tomes
2 +2 tomes

This build's dps math is purely imaginary. I wouldnt get so excited about MOD 9 performance just yet.

The dex and wisdom tomes are not exactly needed, and if a +4 tome is to hard to get I can just get +1 str on the DT docent.

Dunno what the wisdom and dex has got to do with dps maths.

+3 tomes are not that hard to get, and the +2 tomes are very easy to get.

[kingfisher]

13 rogue/6 ranger/1 monk would be the best way to go for a tempest rogue, and yes it would have higher dps when getting 100% SA. 502 vs 557. If you add vod goggles on The Monster you get 540 vs 557. So it's not that much of a difference.

See it like this: It has the highest avarage dps, the rogue can lose his dps from so many things, aggro from mobs, fortification, undeads, elementals, constructs etc. Even 25% fortification will bring a tempest rogues dps down to below The Monsters dps.

have a 13ro/6rgr/1 monk coming up, maybe not the monk lvl tho, maybe ftr or barb for fun. imo the damage will be better. you say that a rogue will lose damage to but those situations are mainly present when soloing or facing certain mobs, yet you exclude your build from soloing and say its a party build. should you not compare the rogue in the same light? if you are going to tax the rogue build for aggro etc, then you need to tax your build for the massive amount of time he will be hopping around chugging pots. same witht he ranger comparison

needs to be a fair, apples to apples comparision imo

if you are trying to prove that this build has highest burst dps thats cool and all but i dont get what you are trying to accomplish with all of this.

there is no ONE build bro. the exploiter never claimed to be that, just to do all things well with minimal expense. i would bet that any arcane or cleric healing you will go through some serious resources.

really it comes down to completion, in a timely fashion, with minimal resources spent. where exactly does your build fit in that? why do you need to do 500whatever dps when you can get by with less and it costs you nothing?

sorry man but i have seen these posts and it seems silly what you are trying to do, but then i have never understood the whole 'my build is better than your build' deal. there are a million ways to play this game who says any one is RIGHT?

[EinarMal]

if you are trying to prove that this build has highest burst dps thats cool and all but i dont get what you are trying to accomplish with all of this.

I am not even sure of this, I think a TWF pally for about 20 seconds might lay claim to that with alternating exalted smites and sacrifices. It is pretty crazy when you start combining those with double procs on TWF swings. Doesn't last long but it's some major hurt.

There is no one build if there ever is one enjoy it while it lasts because it will be nerfed somehow as that is just plain bad for the game period.

[Aaxeyu]

have a 13ro/6rgr/1 monk coming up, maybe not the monk lvl tho, maybe ftr or barb for fun. imo the damage will be better. you say that a rogue will lose damage to but those situations are mainly present when soloing or facing certain mobs, yet you exclude your build from soloing and say its a party build. should you not compare the rogue in the same light? if you are going to tax the rogue build for aggro etc, then you need to tax your build for the massive amount of time he will be hopping around chugging pots. same witht he ranger comparison

needs to be a fair, apples to apples comparision imo

Shroud and VoD bosses have fortification (and its higher on harder diffs), and the SoS boss is undead, so in the hardest fights in the game atm the rogue loses alot of its power.

if you are trying to prove that this build has highest burst dps thats cool and all but i dont get what you are trying to accomplish with all of this.

there is no ONE build bro. the exploiter never claimed to be that, just to do all things well with minimal expense. i would bet that any arcane or cleric healing you will go through some serious resources.

really it comes down to completion, in a timely fashion, with minimal resources spent. where exactly does your build fit in that? why do you need to do 500whatever dps when you can get by with less and it costs you nothing?

sorry man but i have seen these posts and it seems silly what you are trying to do, but then i have never understood the whole 'my build is better than your build' deal. there are a million ways to play this game who says any one is RIGHT?

I'm just showing you here on US that ranger and barbs are not the end of all dps.
I never claimed the Monster to be the best build, just highest dps.

I know that there is no ONE build in this game, that's what makes it so intresting

[Osharan_Tregarth]

I've got a character with the same class split made up for my gf. So far, she says it's been her favorite character to play. Currently level 15, so... 7/6/2.

She went with halfling, because we had a bunch of rr halfling gear lying around. The extra backstab dps enhancements work out nicely as well.

[EinarMal]

I've got a character with the same class split made up for my gf. So far, she says it's been her favorite character to play. Currently level 15, so... 7/6/2.

She went with halfling, because we had a bunch of rr halfling gear lying around. The extra backstab dps enhancements work out nicely as well.

There is no doubt 12 Fighter is a good split in Mod9. It takes advantage of the best 6 level and 12 level splits in the game in Mod9. It is entirely enhancement based (the most dynamic and nerfed part of the game).

It really comes down to how self sufficient you want to be versus pure DPS. The build will have trouble getting AC high enough without really good gear and has no self healing. So, it works out fine if you have a guild or regular people you play with to support you.

The nerf factor on this build is at least an 8 if not a 9 out of 10 . Any build whose power comes primarily from the enhancement system is risky. Any significant changes to what 12 levels of fighter gets you (maybe they change power surge to +4 at 12 and +8 at 18) or if they reduce the Tempest I bonus (or introduce competence items with speed boost) and the monk wisdom to ac.

All things considered I am not sure I would make this build and take all the time now required to get it to the cap and equipped, but then again I am getting tired of re-rolling.

I kind of like my Kensai dragonmarked Halfling better anyway. Less DPS but almost impossible to kill with ridiculous amounts of self healing. To each his own....

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168761

[Kreaper]

I've used a +2 str tome, +2 dex tome, +2 int tome and +1 wis tome.

Thanks.

[Aaxeyu]

There is no doubt 12 Fighter is a good split in Mod9. It takes advantage of the best 6 level and 12 level splits in the game in Mod9. It is entirely enhancement based (the most dynamic and nerfed part of the game).

It really comes down to how self sufficient you want to be versus pure DPS. The build will have trouble getting AC high enough without really good gear and has no self healing. So, it works out fine if you have a guild or regular people you play with to support you.

The nerf factor on this build is at least an 8 if not a 9 out of 10 . Any build whose power comes primarily from the enhancement system is risky. Any significant changes to what 12 levels of fighter gets you (maybe they change power surge to +4 at 12 and +8 at 18) or if they reduce the Tempest I bonus (or introduce competence items with speed boost) and the monk wisdom to ac.

All things considered I am not sure I would make this build and take all the time now required to get it to the cap and equipped, but then again I am getting tired of re-rolling.

I would say the nerf factor is around 1 perhaps. Read some threads here on the forums and you will see that every one of them contains a complaint about how weak Kensai is, so chances are higher that they will buff it, rather than nerf it.
If they wanted to nerf tempest I they should announced a different tempest I comming for mod 9. I doubt that they will change it.
They might somehow nerf wisdom ac, but not that big of a hit, I will be better off than all the ranger/monks out there as I didn't build the build around AC. 2 monks levels are still very good for feats, saves and evasion!.

I kind of like my Kensai dragonmarked Halfling better anyway. Less DPS but almost impossible to kill with ridiculous amounts of self healing. To each his own....

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168761

I got a dragonmarked halfling Kensai aswell: http://community.codemasters.com/for...4&postcount=28.

[kingfisher]

Shroud and VoD bosses have fortification (and its higher on harder diffs), and the SoS boss is undead, so in the hardest fights in the game atm the rogue loses alot of its power.



I'm just showing you here on US that ranger and barbs are not the end of all dps.
I never claimed the Monster to be the best build, just highest dps.

I know that there is no ONE build in this game, that's what makes it so intresting

lozrz dont trip while you backpeddle

[Aaxeyu]

I've got a character with the same class split made up for my gf. So far, she says it's been her favorite character to play. Currently level 15, so... 7/6/2.

She went with halfling, because we had a bunch of rr halfling gear lying around. The extra backstab dps enhancements work out nicely as well.

Heya, yea it a very good way to split the levels.

She can always take a look at this build for some tips etc: http://community.codemasters.com/for...&postcount=280
It's a much more balanced build. Abit Less dps, but lot higher ac.

[EinarMal]

I got a dragonmarked halfling Kensai aswell: http://community.codemasters.com/for...4&postcount=28.

You should really consider 6 Paladin and stop fighter levels at 12. You can take empower healing and devotion enhancements for a huge increase in dragonmark healing, and you really don't lose that much DPS because of +2 from divine favor and +2 from divine might, as well as smites and sacrfice.

You also end up with much better saves that way.

[Aaxeyu]

You should really consider 6 Paladin and stop fighter levels at 12. You can take empower healing and devotion enhancements for a huge increase in dragonmark healing, and you really don't lose that much DPS because of +2 from divine favor and +2 from divine might, as well as smites and sacrfice.

You also end up with much better saves that way.

Hm, there is lot of synergi between the paladin levels and healing marks, but don't you think ranger levels would better? I could probably fit in tempest. It would be feat starved thou.. might be hard to fit in 4 feats.

Going 18 fighter have the advantage of kensai III, but that turned out to be quite a dissapointment. It will also get more feats.

[Nick_RC]

In an avarage quest you don't need high dps for trash mobs, this build is best where it matters, the bosses. The trashmobs are called trashmobs for a reason.

We're experimenting with different ways to make damage worthwhile again for both mundane classes and spellcasters.

If the trash mobs remain trash. Ul have showtime one bosses...will be interesting to see. I deleted my verson of this character. He had jsut hit 20 shrouds and was identical to your except +2 wisdom - 2 con. Had chattering ring etc etc alreay. He was fun but just wasnt as tough as my barb.

N

[Borror0]

WARNING: This is a very long post with lots of numbers. Read at your own peril.

Unmatched DPS, eh? Interesting.

In this post, I will compare the DPS of the two following builds:

• Aaxeyu's Monster - WF 12 fighter/6 ranger/2 monk
• EinarMal's Exploiter - Human 18 ranger/1 monk/1 rogue

The two builds share similar goals, so I feel they can be compared one to another. I will limit myself on the DPS aspect of those builds, though. The rest can be viewed by visiting each of the respective thread so I will not bother about it.

I'll use the numbers posted on each thread, so refer to those threads if there is any confusion.

Note that most of this is pure speculation. There will be many assumptions that may be totally wrong and change the result of the analysis.

First of all, I will assume that none of the gear added in Module 9.0 will favor either builds. It's entirely possible that Module 9.0 will contain better weapons or accessories that will favor one build over the other, but since this is all we know for now, I will consider existing gear. This means that both Monster and Exploiter will be dual-wielding Mineral II khopeshes. Secondly, I will assume that the Superior Two-Weapon Fighting-like feature of Tempest III will be as Codog said STWF would be, a year ago. Thirdly, I will assume that activating an Action Boost or Power Surge requires 2s since activating Haste Boost took me 2s each time I tried (ie I tested it multiple times and came to the same result each time). Fourthly, I will assume that Power Surge will last 60s, like the Thief-Acrobat's Showtime ability. Fifthly, I will assume not a single second of the short buffs is lost, other than the time to chain activate them is lost. Finally, I will assume that anything worth DPSing in Module 9.0 will have acid resistance, since we are entering Shavarath.

If any of those are wrong, the results will change. Don't mention it. I know it, but a minimum of assumption is necessary if we want to speculate on who will be the best DPS build come the next module.

Since a significant part of Monster's DPS comes from short duration boosts, let's try to see how much time Exploiter will have to invest to catch him up (since Exploiter obviously has more sustainable DPS than Monster).

Monster's sustainable DPS:

• Main hand:
  10.5 base
  +14 Str
  +7 Power Attack
  +6 Favored Enemy
  +2 Kensai Khopesh Mastery II
  +1 Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
  +2 Size (Ram's Might)
  +1 Luck (Prayer)
  42.5 damage
  
  On criticals, you add:
  
  • +12 Kensai Khopesh Mastery II
  • +18 Bloodstone
  
  
  Damage per swing:
  15/20*42.5+4/20*157.5+7+2.5+8 = 80.9 damage per swing
  
  Swings per minute:
  83 swings per minute*1.25 enhancement*1.10 competence = 114 swings per minute
  
  Damage per Second:
  114/60*80.9 = 153.8 dps
  
  
• Offhand:
  10.5 base
  +7 Str
  +7 Power Attack
  +6 Favored Enemy
  +2 Kensai Khopesh Mastery II
  +1 Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
  +2 Size (Ram's Might)
  +1 Luck (Prayer)
  35.5 damage
  
  On criticals, you add:
  
  • +12 Kensai Khopesh Mastery II
  • +18 Bloodstone
  
  
  Damage per swing:
  15/20*35.5+4/20*136.5+7+2.5+8 = 71.4 damage per swing
  
  Swings per minute:
  83 swings per minute*1.25 enhancement*1.10 competence = 114 swings per minute
  
  Damage per Second:
  114/60*80.9 = 135.9 dps
  
  
• Total sustainable DPS:
  153.8 + 135.9 = 289.7 damage per second

Exploiter's sustainable DPS:

• Main hand:
  10.5 base
  +12 Str
  +5 Power Attack
  +12 Favored Enemy
  +2 Size (Ram's Might)
  +1 Luck (Prayer)
  42.5 damage
  
  On criticals, you add:
  
  • +18 Bloodstone
  
  
  Damage per swing:
  15/20*42.5+4/20*145.5+7+2.5+8+6.5 = 85.0 damage per swing
  
  Swings per minute:
  83 swings per minute*1.25 enhancement*1.10 competence = 114 swings per minute
  
  Damage per Second:
  114/60*87.4 = 161.6 dps
  
  
• Offhand:
  10.5 base
  +6 Str
  +5 Power Attack
  +12 Favored Enemy
  +2 Size (Ram's Might)
  +1 Luck (Prayer)
  36.5 damage
  
  On criticals, you add:
  
  • +18 Bloodstone
  
  
  Damage per swing:
  15/20*36.5+4/20*127.5+7+2.5+8+6.5 = 76.9 damage per swing
  
  Swings per minute:
  99.6 swings per minute*1.25 enhancement*1.10 competence = 137 swings per minute
  
  Damage per Second:
  114/60*76.9 = 175.5 dps
  
  
• Total sustainable DPS:
  161.6 + 175.5 = 343.1 damage per second

Monster's DPS gain by burst

• Main hand:
  42.5 base
  +4 Str (Power Surge)
  47.5 damage
  
  On criticals, you add:
  
  • +12 Kensai Khopesh Mastery II
  • +18 Bloodstone
  
  
  Average damage per swing:
  15/20*47.5+4/20*172.5+7+2.5+8 = 87.6 damage per swing
  
  Swings per minutes (Power Surge):
  83 swings per minute*1.25 enhancement*1.10 competence = 114 swings per minute
  
  DPS (Power Surge):
  114/60*87.6 = 166.7 dps
  
  Swings per minutes (Haste Boost):
  83 swings per minute*1.25 enhancement*1.10 competence*1.30 haste boost = 149 swings per minute
  
  DPS (Haste Boost + Power Surge):
  149/60*87.6 = 216.7 dps
  
  
• Offhand:
  36.5 base
  +2 Str (Power Surge)
  38.5 damage
  
  On criticals, you add:
  
  • +12 Kensai Khopesh Mastery II
  • +18 Bloodstone
  
  
  Average damage per swing:
  15/20*38.5+4/20*145.5+7+2.5+8 = 75.5 damage per swing
  
  Swings per minutes (Power Surge):
  83 swings per minute*1.25 enhancement*1.10 competence = 114 swings per minute
  
  DPS (Power Surge):
  114/60*87.6 = 143.6 dps
  
  Swings per minutes (Haste Boost):
  83 swings per minute*1.25 enhancement*1.10 competence*1.30 haste boost = 149 swings per minute
  
  DPS (Haste Boost + Power Surge):
  149/60*87.6 = 186.6 dps
  
  
• Total:
  
  Total DPS (Power Surge):
  166.7 + 143.6 = 310,2
  
  Total DPS (Haste Boost + Power Surge):
  216.6 + 186.6 = 403,3

Now, I'll explain the calculations I will do next. There are many ways the Haste Boost and Power Surge could be used in a combat. I will however assume that they will be used back to back. Basically, I assume monster will activate Power Surge followed by Haste Boost. Once Haste Boost's cooldown is over, I assume Monster will trigger it again. The second Haste Boost should end slightly before Power Surge. Once the first Power Surge will be over, he'll trigger the third Haste Boost. In short, Monster will be using two Haste Boost per Power Surge until he runs out of Haste Boost.

This assumes static fighting, mobs not moving nor dying before the bursts are over. It's unrealistic and biased in favor of Monster.

When activating Haste Boost, one looses out 2s of it. This means the real bonus is of only 18s, not 20s. I assume Power Surge will also cost Monster 2s of DPS. This means that during the first 4s of a fight, Monster will be buffing. Then, during the next 18s he will be doing 403.3 DPS. During the ten following seconds (approximatively), he will be doing 310.2 DPS. At that moment, the cooldown of Haste Boost will be over. He will thus activate is again and be forced to stand still for the next 2s, followed again an another 18s of uber 403.3 DPS. Then, Haste Boost is over and we get ten last seconds of 310.2 DPS.

That's the max DPS Monster will ever do, so, let's calculate how much that is:

(4*0+18*403.3+10*310.2+2*0+18*403.3+10*310.2)/62 = 334.2 damage per second

That is... less than Exploiter's sustainable DPS.

...and Exploiter hasn't used his 5 charges of Rogue Haste Boost I yet!

Seems like it's back to the drawing board for Monster, unless I did something wrong or that the goal was the 162 seconds per rest were he can achieve 403.3 damage per second. Unless that is Aaxeyu's/Sickness' definition of "unmatched DPS", then the build does not meet the expect goal of "unmatched DPS".

Unless, of course, I made a mistake in my calculations.

Before you ask, adding buffs, like Inspire Courage, pushes the burst balance to Monster but Exploiter still wins out in the long run. In the best conditions ever, once Exploiter has run out of Haste Boost, Monster only out-DPSes him by 21 DPS. That's all.

Monster's DPS is very unstable and the numbers in this post are biased in his favor. Even there, he varies from barely ahead to behind depending on the the outside buffs he will get. All in all, Exploiter is a far more stable build and will out-DPS Monster in most situations, if not all.

PS: If you want to question my numbers, go ahead. I got everything on an Excel spreadsheet so calculations won't be time-consuming for me.

[Valiance]

Good numbers. I have just a couple of things to add.

In my opinion Monster is less likely to get the nerf bat then Exploiter. Imo one of the first things that is going to be nerfed is favored enemy dmg. I just feel that is going to get knocked down a bit.

Second, Monster looks like it will do more dmg on a greater variety of enemies. If the mob is not a favored enemy monster only loses 6 dmg where exploitter looses 12. Yes I know exploiter will have a broader base of favored enemies that it will cover but still, Monster looks to be a little bit less specialized.

That being said, Exploiter has UMD so that is also a big push in it's direction.

Oh and you don't go into attack numbers much but it looks like Exploiter wins out on attack bonus, which I feel is going to be much more important next mod. Raising enemy AC is an obvious way to give sword and board and 2 wpn fighting a boost as they generally have plus 2 higher to hit bonuses.