Caster w/o Firewall?!?!?!

[Lifespawn]

My main from DDO EU is a Storm wiz and was maxed (rebuilding him now in khyber)

and I feel that FW is a bit like Haste..if you are not spamming it at least once per quest..then your a Noob!..this logic has to now change..because

1.Acid Fog is FAR more useful! (more hit area,more damage per tick,can use web,has 20% miss chance,Stacks with Firewall,Higher mobs have fire res..immune)
I don't know about your firewalls but mine hit well over 300 on a crit acid fog can't even come close.

2.The Elec spells are very effective..and again there not normally ressed and immuned in later levels
They are very usefull never said they weren't but they all have reflex saves cats trogs and ranged mobs all have good evasion making firewall more useful.
3. For a cast and forget spell Acid Arrow works like a charm
love this spell underrated does tons of damage over time still can't compete with firewall unless they are fire immune.
Also I must point out..that as current the casters spec is NOT balanced

i. No purple damage for Elec/Acid..this alone is a cheat!
ii.There are 17 (Fire/Cold) spells..including Burningblood and only 7 (Elec/Acid) spells and acid rain is so gimped its untrue!

I agree there needs to be more acid elec spells to the game then maybe an acid elec specced sorc could rival a fire cold sorc but as is now it can't

[spyderwolf]

think about it like this. do you cast 1 acid fog and 4 chain lightnings? so 5 level 6 spells. ORRRRRR do you cast 1 level 4 spell (firewall) its all about mana conservation really. yes you can get away without firewall and use acid/light spells , BUT you will run out of mana far far quicker than someone using firewall.and my sorcis specced into both lines. i use ball lightning followed by cone of cold for burst damage, but when i need sustained dps i use acid fog with a firewall in it.

[Draclaud]

I had my WF Wizzie A/L specced for awhile. I like it alot I really do. I actually preffer that spec over all. The problem isn't just FW but scorching ray as well. I couldn't justify the lack of SP efficiency with the A/L spells vs the FW/Scorching Ray/Cone of Cold. I'd love to spec back to A/L but I felt too gimped by not using a fully specced FW/Scorching Ray specialist.

[rimble]

I had my WF Wizzie A/L specced for awhile. I like it alot I really do. I actually preffer that spec over all. The problem isn't just FW but scorching ray as well. I couldn't justify the lack of SP efficiency with the A/L spells vs the FW/Scorching Ray/Cone of Cold. I'd love to spec back to A/L but I felt too gimped by not using a fully specced FW/Scorching Ray specialist.

I found Acid/Lightning frustrating because:

1) You can't stack Acid Damage. For example, if you have a creature in an Acid Fog with a Melf's Acid Arrow on him, only the higher damaging one will tick. Other people have refuted this before, but I've tested it multiple times. Maybe my character is broken...? Having a good Acid Fog going with a good Wall of Fire in it works well. And Web works just fine with Wall of Fire too if you know how to target spells, so I don't think that's a particularly valid argument against Wall of Fire (in reply to some other post above).

2) Chain Lightning, although it hits like a Mack truck, frequently misfires and doesn't hit three targets like it should. The misfires drove me nuts, so I dropped it.

3) Needs more spells. Like Vitriolic Sphere from the Spell Compendium.

[Tarackian]

you want GH?? farm a gird or drink a hero pot or get a warchanter to sing (even better than a GH)....and lets roll....people have become way to dependent on too many things......be self sufficient....want for nothing....

Something to keep in mind is how often you will be casting it.

Probably 8 of the spells I use most are
Haste
Resist element
Protection from element
Firewall
GH
Displacement
Finger
Flesh to stone

I would not reccomend scrolling or wanding any of these due to the frequency you cast them.

For anyone who says drop the 2 element ones and let the cleric cast them. I prefer the cleric has those spell points for other things. As a sorc I can buff the hell out of a party and still have as many SP left as a wizard.

[Damionic]

I found Acid/Lightning frustrating because:

1) You can't stack Acid Damage. For example, if you have a creature in an Acid Fog with a Melf's Acid Arrow on him, only the higher damaging one will tick. Other people have refuted this before, but I've tested it multiple times. Maybe my character is broken...? Having a good Acid Fog going with a good Wall of Fire in it works well. And Web works just fine with Wall of Fire too if you know how to target spells, so I don't think that's a particularly valid argument against Wall of Fire (in reply to some other post above).

2) Chain Lightning, although it hits like a Mack truck, frequently misfires and doesn't hit three targets like it should. The misfires drove me nuts, so I dropped it.

3) Needs more spells. Like Vitriolic Sphere from the Spell Compendium.

think about it like this. do you cast 1 acid fog and 4 chain lightnings? so 5 level 6 spells. ORRRRRR do you cast 1 level 4 spell (firewall) its all about mana conservation really. yes you can get away without firewall and use acid/light spells , BUT you will run out of mana far far quicker than someone using firewall.and my sorcis specced into both lines. i use ball lightning followed by cone of cold for burst damage, but when i need sustained dps i use acid fog with a firewall in it.

I feel your remark about spell point conservation is not valid. Because

• I only use Lightning, LB and CL on things that need to die fast (like bosses)
• FW is very inefficient... because it only works when mobs are in or near it so when it’s normally cast in the heat of the moment (excuse the pun) mobs are normally only in it for a short time. Because the Tanks/Meat shields don’t get the concept of STAYING IN THE FW!! So you have to cast several of them to make it count.

And two/three M E Firewall’s cost..?? Cant find the details but you can bet it will be less then one M E Acid Fog J

My normal plan of attack is one Super Acid Arrow… followed by a Super Shocking Grasp if they get close enough to take offence.

My Point about AF (acid fog) having a higher amount of damage per tick is valid because there is more area of effect = more things to damage = More Damage*

* Unless you super FWing a neat row of stationary undead.

Looking at the spell descriptions…I feel that acid rain is a bit of a dark horse

Laughably weak at first cast (due to sh*t spell duration) but at lvl 20 this will pack a punch!

Acid Arrow and Acid Fog DOES stack (the mob in question gets twice as much ticks at the different damage rates per the different DOT’s)

[FluffyCalico]

you want GH?? farm a gird or drink a hero pot or get a warchanter to sing (even better than a GH)....and lets roll....people have become way to dependent on too many things......be self sufficient....want for nothing....

No for many reasons
1) The song does not grant fear immunity+ if I am having to burn a spot for a bard because you won't buff why did I bring you?
2) Why farm a short cast gird to get the 2nd most cast buff in the game?
3) Self sufficient is not greater than can accomplish the very specific needed task when in groups of 12. So what if you can do alittle of everything you can't deal with any of the 5 things I need people to deal with as you are too generalized.

Many people have taken to my approach with this. Learn any spell you want, don't have any you don't want as it's your account. But if you can't even give the most basic of buffs that are wanted in every quest then at least respect my right not to invite you ever again.

[Mhykke]

2) Why farm a short cast gird to get the 2nd most cast buff in the game?

Don't mean to get in the middle, but a quick question.

Short cast? It lasts 11 minutes....

[FluffyCalico]

Don't mean to get in the middle, but a quick question.

Short cast? It lasts 11 minutes....

Yes and know how long GH from my sorc lasts since it hasn't turned off extend, heighten or max in like 7 levels.

And yes there are quests with more than 11 min between shrines. And yes there are people without this item.

[Damionic]

No for many reasons
1) The song does not grant fear immunity+ if I am having to burn a spot for a bard because you won't buff why did I bring you?
2) Why farm a short cast gird to get the 2nd most cast buff in the game?
3) Self sufficient is not greater than can accomplish the very specific needed task when in groups of 12. So what if you can do alittle of everything you can't deal with any of the 5 things I need people to deal with as you are too generalized.

Many people have taken to my approach with this. Learn any spell you want, don't have any you don't want as it's your account. But if you can't even give the most basic of buffs that are wanted in every quest then at least respect my right not to invite you ever again.

Don't mean to get in the middle, but a quick question.

Short cast? It lasts 11 minutes....

Im sorry..what has this got to do with the OT?

[FluffyCalico]

...

[Lifespawn]

I feel your remark about spell point conservation is not valid. Because

• I only use Lightning, LB and CL on things that need to die fast (like bosses)
• FW is very inefficient... because it only works when mobs are in or near it so when it’s normally cast in the heat of the moment (excuse the pun) mobs are normally only in it for a short time. Because the Tanks/Meat shields don’t get the concept of STAYING IN THE FW!! So you have to cast several of them to make it count.

And two/three M E Firewall’s cost..?? Cant find the details but you can bet it will be less then one M E Acid Fog J

My normal plan of attack is one Super Acid Arrow… followed by a Super Shocking Grasp if they get close enough to take offence.

My Point about AF (acid fog) having a higher amount of damage per tick is valid because there is more area of effect = more things to damage = More Damage*

* Unless you super FWing a neat row of stationary undead.

Looking at the spell descriptions…I feel that acid rain is a bit of a dark horse

Laughably weak at first cast (due to sh*t spell duration) but at lvl 20 this will pack a punch!

Acid Arrow and Acid Fog DOES stack (the mob in question gets twice as much ticks at the different damage rates per the different DOT’s)

When i throw a firewall it gets aggro they come after me and i don't run away i circle the firewall they get hit constantly i can do almost any dungeon solo with good tactics and will use way less sp in anything where they are not fire immune.

Like i've said and i'll say again acid and lightning spells are great and fun but not as good as fire/cold spells your argument about casting multiple firewalls to work is weak i'll give you a weak one on yours that shocking grasp does no good when the mob circles behind you or out of range when you cast my firewall needs no target so it never fails.


Firewall has a large range to damage in i find it is the same as my acidfogs solid or acidfog+fw in the middle they are going nowhere and take max damage and die quicker.

[Damionic]

When i throw a firewall it gets aggro they come after me and i don't run away i circle the firewall they get hit constantly i can do almost any dungeon solo with good tactics and will use way less sp in anything where they are not fire immune.

Like i've said and i'll say again acid and lightning spells are great and fun but not as good as fire/cold spells your argument about casting multiple firewalls to work is weak i'll give you a weak one on yours that shocking grasp does no good when the mob circles behind you or out of range when you cast my firewall needs no target so it never fails.


Firewall has a large range to damage in i find it is the same as my acidfogs solid or acidfog+fw in the middle they are going nowhere and take max damage and die quicker.

1.The clue is in the name "Shocking Grasp"

2.If I needed to range I would use a range spell...lightning bolt anyone? (and there is a point when Lightning Bolt out damages Shocking Grasp so when I reach that..that LB will be my anti aggro spell.

3.If you think my valid post about several Firewalls is weak..then fine..ignorence is free

4.I've never stated that Fire/Cold spells arn't effective (turning your point backward) as all spells can/should be

5.Im sorry mate..you can hit more mobs in a AF then a FW thats just fact.

6.Im not trying to tell you how to play..Im just defending how I play.

[Lifespawn]

1.The clue is in the name "Shocking Grasp"

2.If I needed to range I would use a range spell...lightning bolt anyone? (and there is a point when Lightning Bolt out damages Shocking Grasp so when I reach that..that LB will be my anti aggro spell.

3.If you think my valid post about several Firewalls is weak..then fine..ignorence is free

4.I've never stated that Fire/Cold spells arn't effective (turning your point backward) as all spells can/should be

5.Im sorry mate..you can hit more mobs in a AF then a FW thats just fact.

6.Im not trying to tell you how to play..Im just defending how I play.

Your just pointing out your own ignorance shocking grasp can start to cast and then the mob can move out of range being a wasted casting.

How is me not having to cast firewall multiple times to get use out of it me being ignorant it just smacks of you not knowing how to use a firewall.

Firewall has a large aoe maybe you should test it before you spout things.

Again i don't care how you play it's just not as good to be acid/light specced as it is fire/cold spec.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

My CC specced Sorc took WoF as soon as I could. Not because I wanted to.... I really, really did not want to.... But it is just too good of a spell to pass up.

At lvl 16 it is one of only two damaging spells I carry. (but might switch out for a third soon).

[Damionic]

Twice..you have missed the point..third time lucky

I use shocking grasp when mobs are beating on me..so they are not going to run away..do a backflip or anything else that would make me not bring the pain.

If you want to belive that everyone should be one type (Fire/Cold) then fine belive that..It wont make it happen.

Do me a favour..next time you cast AF in a room with lots of mobs..count them..then compare that to a FW (you will find to your amazement the AF hits more mobs)

[Kalari]

My main is force and repair specced as well as all my mages but I do carry fire wall because its still a decent situational spell for me specially in the new frosty area

I hope the new spells they listed will give force more of an oomph and a wall of force spell would make me weak in the knees but I definitely dont knock firewall its just not my favorite spell to use

[Lifespawn]

Twice..you have missed the point..third time lucky

I use shocking grasp when mobs are beating on me..so they are not going to run away..do a backflip or anything else that would make me not bring the pain.
News flash mobs sometimes backup or shocking here i know circle behind you.

If you want to belive that everyone should be one type (Fire/Cold) then fine belive that..It wont make it happen.
You obviously don't read what i type i've said you don't have to be fire/cold my argument was just that fire/cold was more efficient and why not have firewall anyway what pressing lvl 4 spell has more uses.

Do me a favour..next time you cast AF in a room with lots of mobs..count them..then compare that to a FW (you will find to your amazement the AF hits more mobs)
Let me lay it down for you firewall stand in it it hits the same mobs but does 3x the damage and the range is close to an acid fog if not the same and dare i say Greater range lengthwise do a little research before you spout things you don't know.

You turned this conversation into me having to make you look bad i didn't try to do so try being civil next time it gets better responses.

[War5475]

Well after having a Elec/acid sorcerer i can say its the most fun Ive had with a character. Once you get ball lightning everything other than a boss is an instant kill with chain or ball lightning doing 800 points of damage is awesome! I do hate firewall i really think its a cheesy spell I do have it and use it sparingly one because it takes so long to kill something when i can have it dead in one cast. or if its resistant to acid and elec its completely stupid for a mob to stand in the fire and not figure out that they shouldn't stand in the fire like they don't stand in their own camp fires. Anyway you will have sooo much fun and when they start complaining that your not using a fire wall just zap the mobs with ball lightning and watch as they all fall dead and everyone goes... "ohh wow that's nice." You get the last laugh that way. and then just use you firewalls only when really needed.

[Damionic]

News flash mobs sometimes backup or shocking here i know circle behind you.
Landing a aggro'd Shocking Grasp is as hard as a monk landing a punch when aggro'd..eg Not Very (your point about mobs moving is funny as WE move as well)

You obviously don't read what i type i've said you don't have to be fire/cold my argument was just that fire/cold was more efficient and why not have firewall anyway what pressing lvl 4 spell has more uses.

This is what I typed before..pls look on page 2

Also I must point out..that as current the casters spec is NOT balanced

i. No purple damage for Elec/Acid..this alone is a cheat!
ii.There are 17 (Fire/Cold) spells..including Burningblood and only 7 (Elec/Acid) spells and acid rain is so gimped its untrue!

Im sorry were's the argument?..it comes down to preference..same as ranged rangers and THF builds.


Let me lay it down for you firewall stand in it it hits the same mobs but does 3x the damage and the range is close to an acid fog if not the same and dare i say Greater range lengthwise do a little research before you spout things you don't know.

Oh im glad you aggree with me..its just a shame you seem to think that someone playing since beta on DDO EU who has maxed this build..somehow does not know what he is talking about...I accept your apology