Poor Solutions to Potential Problems

[Borror0]

Samera was the LEAD DEVELOPER before Eladrin, and after David Eckelberry.

Me thinks you mean HSinclair.

Samera was the one that announced it, but I am pretty sure HSinclair defended it.

[Aspenor]

Me thinks you mean HSinclair.

Samera was the one that announced it, but I am pretty sure HSinclair defended it.

heather was the dev that spearheaded the enhancement revamp

[Borror0]

heather was the dev that spearheaded the enhancement revamp

...and the lead developer after David and before Eladrin.

Samera was the Community Relation Specialist until she got promoted.

[Gratch]

My memory thinks Borror0 is closer to the mark. I don't remember Samera ever doing content design though she did get promoted to a niftier sounding title at some point.

If we retitle this thread to be: Pour Solutions to Potential Problems
my answer would be: Mountain Dew (possibly code Red style - but more likely diet stylebecause I'm old and can't handle the empty calories).

Seeing how far off topic I can go now that we're done analyzing a scan from a totally out of date manual.

[Borror0]

My memory thinks Borror0 is closer to the mark. I don't remember Samera ever doing content design though she did get promoted to a niftier sounding title at some point.

Seems like I need to prove it. There. /victory

We can move on.

[Chaos000]

Seems like I need to prove it. There. /victory

We can move on.

nerd!

[icculus]

Samera was the LEAD DEVELOPER before Eladrin, and after David Eckelberry.

As Borror0 so eloquently points out, you are wrong again.

[Angelus_dead]

laziness can NEVER be excused.

Adam Smith and Charles Darwin were just here looking for you.

They sounded mad.

[Strakeln]

Secondly, they didn't change Minos Legends' Toughness feat to not meet the prereq to the Toughness enhancement line. Rather, they changed it to give a fixed amount of 20 HP. Lazy? Perhaps, but laziness can be excused since they work on limited budget. They cannot fix everything.

Ah, but fixing things in an improper ("lazy") manner will often cost more in the long run.

Example: XP penalty. How many times was it changed before they got it "right"? If they had implemented their current system instead of attempting to patch the other one multiple times, how many hours of development time (and corresponding resources) would have been saved and used towards something else?

Second example: potions (lesser restore, poison, etc): Since they did everything in a lazy way, they will be revisiting this issue (again).

[Borror0]

No - but the problem being fixed should be fixed for ALL the same problems.

Wrong. Let me breakdown for you.

1. Problem A and problem B share a common fix, which would be the "ideal fix".
2. Problem A is really problematic, while problem B is nearly meaningless.
3. The "ideal fix" is really time-consuming.
4. Problem A can be fixed via a quick workaround.
5. If the gains of the "ideal fix" don't outweigh the gains of the time saved by the workaround, the logical decision is to save time.

In other words, Turbine decided that they had better things to do of their time.

If that is true, good for us! If they were wrong, well they were wrong. Telling them "stop doing mistakes" is as productive as saying "get better grades" to a bad student. Just because you say it doesn't mean it will happen. Fact is, they are probably trying to avoid mistakes.

Yeah, I'm serious, developers aren't purposely making bad decision!

Essentially your arguements have been reduced to if not many people exploit it, then no biggie.

No. That's not what I said.

I said that Turbine have to set priorities and use their time as best as possible. Some things are just not worth fixing. In an ideal world, they would fix it. Sadly, it is not at the top of their priority list.

there are other enhancements tied to item feats that are far more powerful than Toughness

Any of those come on currently existing items?

Yes, very lazy - and laziness can NEVER be excused.

Do you know that "time limitation" and "budget" mean? If not, look it up. If

Wonderful, your 'lazy' halfassed solution just cut down on the choices available - interesting how you can argue both for and against choice.

Perfect is the enemy of good. Turbine does not have unlimited manpower.

XP penalty. How many times was it changed before they got it "right"? If they had implemented their current system instead of attempting to patch the other one multiple times, how many hours of development time (and corresponding resources) would have been saved and used towards something else?

Bad example. It would only make sense if the reasons to change the system were the same each time and that the ideal system was obvious since the start.

Second example: potions (lesser restore, poison, etc): Since they did everything in a lazy way, they will be revisiting this issue (again).

I'm upset they didn't it right after messing it up. Most likely, the second fix was a temporary fix to make it easier to cope with the bug until it gets fixed.

I am sure that Turbine knew it wouldn't solve everything.

[Impaqt]

Trust me. If y ou decided to start a campaign to fix the tumble enhancments along the same lines as the toughness enh, you wouldnt get any flack from the community.. No One cares about the Tumble enhancment working with a Mobility robe. Go ahead and file the bug report, Start a petition, make all those evil tumble exploiters pay for their crime!

And whether it was Samera or a dev that announced the change is of little importance. Samera didnt come up with the changes, she was a voice for the community much like Tolero is now. She was givin info, by the devs, to share with the community.

I still believe the Evasion fix was indeed announced in the WDA though.

BTW, thanks for starting the personal attacks.. this thread outgrew its usefulness a page or 2 ago.

[Gratch]

BTW, thanks for starting the personal attacks.. this thread outgrew its usefulness a page or 2 ago.

I was having fun a page ago.

I still have the scene of Darwin and Smith wandering around the forums looking mad in my head. That mostly made this page worth it. I'm sure Adam Smith is wielding a halberd. Ooh... a pic:



I really hope those guys don't start "tumbling".

Ed: Sorry... halberd is Swiss... Smith would probably have a Lochaber axe or Claymore.

[moorewr]

I was having fun a page ago.

I still have the scene of Darwin and Smith wandering around the forums looking mad in my head. That mostly made this page worth it. I'm sure Adam Smith is wielding a halberd. Ooh... a pic:



I really hope those guys don't start "tumbling".

Ed: Sorry... halberd is Swiss... Smith would probably have a Lochaber axe or Claymore.

Careful.. Darwin has a posse...

[icculus]

Wrong. Let me breakdown for you.

1. Problem A and problem B share a common fix, which would be the "ideal fix".
2. Problem A is really problematic, while problem B is nearly meaningless.
3. The "ideal fix" is really time-consuming.
4. Problem A can be fixed via a quick workaround.
5. If the gains of the "ideal fix" don't outweigh the gains of the time saved by the workaround, the logical decision is to save time.

In other words, Turbine decided that they had better things to do of their time.

Except that it is right. If they do not have time to do it twice (or thrice or in many case more), then they have time to do it right. Further more, as we have repeatedly seen, their 'quick fix' as you are such a great proponent of, has resulted in significantly MORE problems than were there initially. For someone that is SO concerned about time & resources, wow we really have ****ED away that time...

Essentially, the two problems are they one, identify an issue that needs correcting but rather than actually fix it they only change whatever is the forum flame of the month; and two, in their rush to achieve this fix generally only succeed in making the situation worse.

For some reason, you seem content with this but I however am not.

No. That's not what I said.

I said that Turbine have to set priorities and use their time as best as possible. Some things are just not worth fixing. In an ideal world, they would fix it. Sadly, it is not at the top of their priority list.

Yes that is exactly what you have said, and in fact you just said it again:
"Some things are just not worth fixing"
and you have qualified that previously by saying that no one does it/that you do not do it/that not many people do it - ergo, that if no 'critical mass' of players are using the exploit then it just is not worth fixing.

I am fine with that point of view, even if I disagree with it myself, but do not try and say that you have not said it.

[Borror0]

If they do not have time to do it twice (or thrice or in many case more), then they have time to do it right.

Wrong. If they mess up, if the fix does not bring what they expected it to, they will fix it again.

Are you aware that what you are saying is "Turbine, stop messing up". I think they knew that much.

Further more, as we have repeatedly seen, their 'quick fix' as you are such a great proponent of, has resulted in significantly MORE problems than were there initially.

Give me one example of that.

Secondly, unless you believe they intended to mess up properly, you are blaming for... making a mistake? Useful feedback...

I am fine with that point of view, even if I disagree with it myself, but do not try and say that you have not said it.

You want Turbine to waste money for nothing? Great... a moral victory is what you are after?

Let me give you an example. In Québec, we have a social welfare program to aid those who can prove they cannot sustain themselves sufficiently. In that case, the individual receives an amount each month. Like every system, there are abuses. A lot. But, they are cheaper ignored than the money spent to catch the abusers. So, they are left alone because the government likes not wasting money but wants to keep the welfare program in place.

Through the years, the measures to moderate the offenders have been raised and lowered to adapt to the amount of abuses there were. If the number of fraud went up, the government raised the measure. Not because fraud is bad, but because fraud is costing them money. Asking the government to 'catch the bad people' would be stupid, because it would be asking them to waste our money.

That's what you're asking Turbine, if you believe a bug is a bug... and that they are all equivalent.

Turbine runs on a budget, they decide how they spend their money and how their employees best spend their time to maximize their profits. And that is why I said that some bugs are not worth fixing. I'd rather have Turbine fixing more important bugs the same way I rather them implementing features we care about over useless fluff we don't care about.

[Aspenor]

As Borror0 so eloquently points out, you are wrong again.

details, details.

who cares who it was? the fact of the matter is you're still wrong about everything that matters.

[xman26]

All unintended features are not equally worth fixing.

The Mobility enhancement line offers a very insignificant bonus. On my intimitank, I would never even waste one AP on that line, and I knew of the exploit for a long while now. It's just not worth the AP.

Your attack is dishonest.

Trying to argue that, since they found Minos Legends' Toughness to meet the prereq to Toughness problem, they should also fix Mobility is idiotic. The Toughness line is way more powerful than the Mobility line. That, alone, justifies that they could fix one but not the other.

Secondly, they didn't change Minos Legends' Toughness feat to not meet the prereq to the Toughness enhancement line. Rather, they changed it to give a fixed amount of 20 HP. Lazy? Perhaps, but laziness can be excused since they work on limited budget. They cannot fix everything.

If you look at it, you have two good reasons to not fix the Mobility line:

• The Toughness line is powerful (and thus the bug problematic) but the Mobility line is not (and thus the bug is insignificant).
• Minos Legends can be fixed with a quick workaround. Mobility can only be fixed via new complicated coding.

In other words, Turbine fixed the main problem and didn't waste their time on useless fluff. Sure, it would have been nice that they fix everything as it opens the door to more cool items. However, they didn't deem that to be worth their time, for now. Maybe it will, in the future, but not now.

"Lazy coding" can be a good thing, if it's to better spend your time.

I love how yopu defend Turbine, its as if you have a loved one who works there, or you do. But poor coding and laziness can not be excused ever and Turbine is full of laziness and coders who most likely couldn't get a job working for corner web developer.

[Aspenor]

I love how yopu defend Turbine, its as if you have a loved one who works there, or you do. But poor coding and laziness can not be excused ever and Turbine is full of laziness and coders who most likely couldn't get a job working for corner web developer.

Says the guy with his computer specs in his sig.....speak for yourself buddy.

[xman26]

Says the guy with his computer specs in his sig.....speak for yourself buddy.

Whats my computer got to do with poor coding? Or my post for that matter? I have had zero,zilch,zip problems with it.

[Borror0]

I love how yopu defend Turbine, its as if you have a loved one who works there, or you do.

That's true. Codog and I are childhood sweethearts and are still maintaining a secret relationship behind the back of Mrs. Codog.

But hey, keep it a secret.

-_-'